Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Do You Think We'll Ever Run Out of New Moves?

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Lye
Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop

Member Since: 24th Sep 2009
Total posts: 270
Posted:It'd be a sad day, but do you think we'll ever exhaust poi? Or is it something that there will continue to be innovation in forever? I speak only in terms of moves, not in terms of stylistic elements.

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St0rMy
St0rMy

newbie

Member Since: 22nd Jan 2010
Total posts: 32
Posted:As far as it ending i think its far from happening. Moves get modified and tweaked all the time which spawn ideas for new moves entirely. I mean at some point its gotta end but its to much for one person to do alone so essentially no it will never end

well unless you happen to learn the secret to immortality but that isnt happenin soon


We're addicted to planes, trains and automobiles
We're addicted to addiction
We dig livin in fiction
For money, power, respect, the Army's got to go kill
They're all under contract so let the blood spill

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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: St0rMyAs far as it ending i think its far from happening. Moves get modified and tweaked all the time which spawn ideas for new moves entirely. I mean at some point its gotta end but its to much for one person to do alone so essentially no it will never end

well unless you happen to learn the secret to immortality but that isnt happenin soon

Care to put money on that?

I am pretty close to cracking it grin


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:In theory you could do it, or at least enhance lifespans, by reducing telomerase degradation.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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ladyleo
ladyleo

newbie

Member Since: 16th May 2008
Total posts: 26
Posted:People need some kind of destination point... "at some point it will end." But it wont. Poi is art. Art is infinite. Circular patterns around a point will not end because of Pi. Thank you.

smile


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liquidtrance
liquidtrance

i dream in circles...
Location: Scotland
Member Since: 29th Nov 2005
Total posts: 336
Posted:lmao:)

even chuck norris can't pin you down if your on fire

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:I got bored of poi a few years ago because i thought i had reached 'the end'. How wrong i was! there has been a bunch of new stuff since then (i stopped practicing around when hybrids first started being really explored) and recently i have come back to it.

My point is, you may think you have reached the end of what is possible, then someone comes along and blows everyone away and it starts all over again. There are discussions here on HoP about 'has poi stagnated?' with people asking when will there be something new. There is always something you havent thought about.

Contact staff however has pretty much reached its limit for a while (well for upper body stuff anyway). I havnt seen a truly new move in contact in a few years. The problem with contact is there are only so many parts of the body you can roll over and in only so many ways. Poi has the advantage that they spin through space in varying circles and therefore isn't as restricted by the human body.

Im not sure if there is an actual infinite number (in the true sense of the word) of possible moves but i think we have a long way to go yet smile


"Don't do it naked!"

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:no, 'cause there are no "moves" there are only movements. How can you run out of something that was mostly comprised of an intangible thing like imagination in the first place? Given, there are the elements such as this way or that way in relation to this timing and what ever combination of planes they exist in for the moment... but as soon as you start building them up the possibilities become huge and the line between "basic move" and "variation" blurs rather quickly. Remember, we are all comprised of energy vibrations which on our level is perceived (but only perceived) as solid state. What happens to an electron if you shine a light on it to see where it is?

"Question every thing you think you understand...
A trick is just a move that you have polished a particular presentation of.
A move is just a pattern that you choose to commit to muscle memory as a base.
A pattern is a particular sequence of attributes over time, through space.
"Move Families" are Ven diagram collections of patterns that have certain attributes in common.
Attributes only exist in an individual's mind.
Minds seem to transmit information between each other (always with some noise in the signal, as stated by communication theory).

'Only from stillness does one have infinite possibilities' (0-point, no momentum from your local frame of reference).

Once you start to move you collapse infinite possibilities into finite ones that follow certain forms. By investing energy/momentum in a particular way, you impose limits on what you are doing. Limitations etch form out of no-form. Negative space defines form in space (so say the artists)." - Alien Jon

it goes on: http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/899717/AlienJon.html#Post899717


listen to this, especially towards the end:



EDITED_BY: DyamiTK (1267300649)


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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." - Albert Einstein

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Unless we're on a sphere. tongue2

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:different terminology, same idea. with a sphere, the surrounding unknown expands even more rapidly. d:

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Not if we're limited to expanding a circle on the surface of a sphere, was more my point. The circumference of darkness would increase for a while, hit a maximum point, and then shrink again tongue2

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:in that case you are very correct. however we live in three dimensional infinite space, not two dimensional space bounded on a sphere. so again, tongue2 .

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Last I heard the jury was still out on the structure of space-time, so... let's see, is there an emoticon more immature than the tongue one... Yes. Yes there is. nana

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:you win this round. that emoticon is amazing. eek

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Haha, you have come across someone who aspires to be a theoretical physicist. Yes, a fire-spinning physicist. We do not, as of current accepted theory, live in an infinite 3-dimensional universe. Our universe is, I was never sure about the number, 3 or 4 dimensions. I think it's 3 actually, I think they just kinda stuck time in those 3. And our universe is part of an 11 dimensional multiverse composed of theoretical "membranes" that can be many different multidimensional shapes, that float around in the infinite multiverse. And these membranes do have a surface covered in waves, and it is proposed that the Big bang came about from a collision of two membranes, and the non-uniformity came about because of the many randomly-spaced collisions of the wavy surface.

Physics is a weird world my friend. Filled with things that completely defy common sense. Such as the observed fact the electrons can and very often are in more than one place at one time. That one always screws with people's heads.

And that's what you get for talking physics around me nana


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:don't let it inflate your head.
If we want to continue this discussion we should start a new thread 'cause we are starting to go off on a tangent. If you start it I will come join you.


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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:haha, but I would end up wasting all my free time. If someone starts it though, I won't be able to help myself.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Lye
Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop

Member Since: 24th Sep 2009
Total posts: 270
Posted:I know a lot about this topic.

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:
The poi are not limited, we are

whats a move anyway?


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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[ Unregistered ]
addict

Member Since: 29th Jan 2009
Total posts: 413
Posted:I'ts one word in body language.

ninja


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recklessme
stranger

Member Since: 9th Apr 2008
Total posts: 11
Posted:Originally Posted By: DyamiTKno, 'cause there are no "moves" there are only movements. How can you run out of something that was mostly comprised of an intangible thing like imagination in the first place? Given, there are the elements such as this way or that way in relation to this timing and what ever combination of planes they exist in for the moment... but as soon as you start building them up the possibilities become huge and the line between "basic move" and "variation" blurs rather quickly. Remember, we are all comprised of energy vibrations which on our level is perceived (but only perceived) as solid state. What happens to an electron if you shine a light on it to see where it is?

"Question every thing you think you understand...
A trick is just a move that you have polished a particular presentation of.
A move is just a pattern that you choose to commit to muscle memory as a base.
A pattern is a particular sequence of attributes over time, through space.
"Move Families" are Ven diagram collections of patterns that have certain attributes in common.
Attributes only exist in an individual's mind.
Minds seem to transmit information between each other (always with some noise in the signal, as stated by communication theory).

'Only from stillness does one have infinite possibilities' (0-point, no momentum from your local frame of reference).

Once you start to move you collapse infinite possibilities into finite ones that follow certain forms. By investing energy/momentum in a particular way, you impose limits on what you are doing. Limitations etch form out of no-form. Negative space defines form in space (so say the artists)." - Alien Jon

it goes on: http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/899717/AlienJon.html#Post899717


listen to this, especially towards the end:





i hold the belief that poi is most definitely not something that is going to come to a end anytime soon. it is something that can be percieved as limited as we it to make it .
there are so many things that DyamiTK said are right on. the only thing is i think there is need for a little bit of a different approach to what a move or pattern is. first off i think the idea of patterns is a completely artificial concept( one could argue all of these are and they'd be right but this i kinda believe is more so if that makes any sense). lets take for example the pattern of a weave. if you look at the pattern involved in a weave it seems very much to be a finite pattern. but i feel it is safe to say that no one can do a perfect weave. thats because the way are bodys work we are constantly self correcting and correcting from those corrections and so on. so dispit us going by a set pattern for a weave there will always be those slight corrections that make it different. this becomes even more prominent when your talking about transitions and more advanced spinning because instead of just going by a set pattern you have to react to the poi themselves(this becomes particularly important when your working with plane bending and such).
so i believe that this is true in all of spinning and i belief what alien jon said does a good job at supporting this. when there is no energy in the system your body does not have to accommodate at all for the poi so there are infinite possibility( i guess the real only limitation is that added by gravity saying the head cant come upwards towards the hand until the proper energy had been added(dropping the hand is different)) . but as you are spinning you may have to accommodate to the energy in the poi at the which does add immediate limitation but by keeping the head in a low energy state you can accommodate the energy from the poi and from there bring it to where ever we want it. however that accommodation still does act as a limiting factor but it reduces the limitation on the logic that the less energy/momentum you add in the less limitations you have and when you use things such as isolations the limitations on the poi head is reduced while the energy/momentum is switched to the hand( which is not as bounded by the more energy more limitation rule.) so by using point isolations you are able to achieve a zero energy state in the poi while being able to under go a infinite amount of variation. so by dropping through the various levels of isolation you are able to do a infinite amount of variation.
not that this is needed to prove there is infinite variation in poi i still hold that due to the bio feedback even the most basic moves consist of infinite variation while being identified the same. even as far as moves go there can always be another iteration applied to a move and with no defined period saying poi is limited is just like saying the coke curve is a measurable length. the bounds are where you imagine them because we are dealing with a 4d fractals( i dont see much application of the 11d of of m theory because for the most part the whole big thing about the quantum world and what boggles all the physicists is the rules of the two worlds are very much different. however i liked all the talk about m theory and its application to poi if you guys do make a thread i would deff be interested.)
peace and love and happy spinning!!! grin


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