Forums > Social Discussion > (International) Aid ... what is it good for?

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 123
FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:this basically is another aftershock - or a ripple of a deleted thread wink

[ed: there is another thread touching Social welfare - this one is more about the aspects of international aid - feel free to post here or there smile ]


I found the Wiki article on "Aid" and felt it touches important aspects - the most significant (imho) being:

Originally Posted By: WikiAid (...) is a voluntary transfer of resources from one country to another, given at least partly with the objective of benefiting the recipient country.[1] It may have other functions as well: it may be given as a signal of diplomatic approval, or to strengthen a military ally, to reward a government for behaviour desired by the donor, to extend the donor's cultural influence, to provide infrastructure needed by the donor for resource extraction from the recipient country, or to gain other kinds of commercial access.[2] Humanitarianism and altruism are, nevertheless, significant motivations for the giving of aid.

(...)

Aid existed in ancient times. More recently, in the nineteenth century, some private aid flowed from the Western countries to the rest of the world; missionary schools are an example. In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, aid from governments was tiny compared to present levels, consisting mostly of occasional humanitarian crisis relief. Some transfers that would now be counted as aid, however, came under the purview of colonial office budgets. It was at the end of World War Two, in the contexts of European reconstruction, decolonisation, and cold war rivalry for influence in the third world, that aid became the major activity that it is today.

What do you feel about (giving) aid? Or about your governments providing aid for (humanitarian) relief to other nations?

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1264830704)
EDIT_REASON: splinters ;)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete Topic

SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Only if you're in a good enough position yourself to do it, or if it screws you over if you don't.

Like some aid in Haiti is needed because if we don't than communism will and we'd have a potential war right off our border and that is not good no

But I do think current aid is more expansive than needed, I say leave it do donation of people who can afford it themselves instead of a government crippled by debt.

And there are my twocents


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:but debt does not equal starvation, does it?

Personally I side you that you should be able to swim, before jumping into the water for rescuing someone.

I'm not sure where you're going by mentioning "communism" here...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Because it has a tendency to take over in places where disaster is stricken. And our government says no to communism no matter what and it must but in. And other times communism just doesn't like us, but it's been a while since worrying about that.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTombut debt does not equal starvation, does it?

Yes it does because the responsibility falls on the taxpayers in a time of repression or depression.

On an individual level we here in America are judged by our credit scores and are denied jobs, housing, loans, reasonable interest rates and are placed into a state of poverty (sometimes just a stigma that anyone can pull up on a database immediately) that is difficult to get out of without winning the lottery or having the ability to get a settlement from some civil suit going on.

Debt always equals starvation for someone here and that is a fact, all cases are different, but when the government relies on income taxes for revenue and we have a high unemployment rate, a recession, and inflation going on, well to put it simply the buck has to stop somewhere and your everyday worker/citizen takes the hardest hit. twocents


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Let them eat cake ^^

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:LOL You know how that story ended!!! tongue2

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:hahaha ^^b

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

Delete

This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:On a more serious note. Have they requested aid? I know it would seem like common sense to give aid in such a crisis but we are meddling if they haven't. It would be ignorant of us to look at them with pity if they can manage without us. It's like looking at the slum children in India and feeling sorry for them because they are limited by a cast system when I'm sure they don't sit and cry everyday like the aid adverts show for people in Africa. People adapt, we strive for happiness and humans find it in the strangest of places. It's not our place to say they can't be satisfied because they don't have the privileges we do. I'm probably not making my point come across correctly but it's 5am and sleep will not come.

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

Delete

Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshIt's like looking at the slum children in India and feeling sorry for them because they are limited by a cast system when I'm sure they don't sit and cry everyday like the aid adverts show for people in Africa...It's not our place to say they can't be satisfied because they don't have the privileges we do. I'm probably not making my point come across correctly but it's 5am and sleep will not come.

No, I understand you completely and know where you're coming from. It reminds me of when I was first in my village in Vanuatu and talking to one of my new friends about when I lived in Romania and she said "in our church, we pray for poor people like them."

It really startled me at first because my Western upbringing of "they're from a developing country therefore they must be sad and want more money" told me that it was absurd for someone in a developing country felt sorry for someone from a poor country (fi you get what I mean by my distinction there)...but after you live with them for a while, it makes sense. It's not about pining for what you don't have, it's about living with what you do.

Charities love showing us pictures of kids playing with coffee tins et al. because they're so poor they can't afford toys - hell, that kid is probably loving that coffee tin! My Ni-Vanuatu nephews used to love finding stuff on the rubbish heap to play with - discarded crisp packets were great for carrying water to later dump on someone's head! So they don't have a PSP? They have imagination!

Back to the original question, how do I feel about giving aid?

I prefer to give opportunities.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:I wrote a really long and insightful responce, based on my personal feeling and experiences. It was articulate and I feel it also took into account what other people suggested in the last thread, but then my connection cut ust as I hit submit and I lost it all. So in summery:

Give if you can, but dont make excuses if you can and just dont want to.

I emplore people to think about others.

I believe, as a christian, giving should involve some sort of personal sacrifice so I personally gave to the Haiti appeal evan though I do fit into the not able category.

I think as a planet who is striving to be a global community we should think about that a lot more when it comes to aid. and I agree with Rouge, giving people opportunities and a future is more important than just money or other materialistic things.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Delete

WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:Or those idiots who sent the first supply planes to the Tsunami victims, the planes that just dropped bibles. how retarded, people cant eat books.

That sort of charity drives me insane.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Delete

Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:That's the first time I heard about dropping bibles, that's ridiculous!!

In Vanuatu I hated seeing the parents of kids with un-paid school fees put money into the collection plate at church.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:Originally Posted By: Rouge DragonIn Vanuatu I hated seeing the parents of kids with un-paid school fees put money into the collection plate at church.

yeah, I fulfill my obligations first, and then decide on what to give and what to keep with what is left over.
but on the same token, it costs money to run a church service. As someone that goes to them one of my obligations is to help pay for it.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Delete

animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:It's the Commies!!!

laugh3


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:They have their good points too.

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:^^^
I'd have to agree, if executed properly and successfully it has the potential to be a well working societal template. But to date that has not occurred...


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:^^
It would work, except for the fact that people become mad with power and abuse it. Also, the everyone gets the same pay thing has obvious flaws

The same goes for dictatorship, it has the potential the be very effective, but that would only happen if pretty much a robot of person ran it.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Same pay being a flaw? Please explain. I can't see the problem if I'm honest.

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:If everyone gets the same pay, then they have no motive to work harder, so naturally, people will start being lazy. Not to mention hardly anyone will try for harder jobs such as a surgeon because they'd get paid the same working at a register.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: SpinnerofDetroit^^
It would work, except for the fact that people become mad with power and abuse it. Also, the everyone gets the same pay thing has obvious flaws

True Communism (the kind that has only existed in theory and has never happened historically) doesn't have a monetary system and a nation is ran on a wide scale like a commune with equal living quarters, rations, health care, etc because everyone contributes to society and society gets back from it's own contributions...

Remember "The Smurfs"? old grin

I don't think it's half bad myself, if it worked out correctly in the practical application of course.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Originally Posted By: SpinnerofDetroitIf everyone gets the same pay, then they have no motive to work harder, so naturally, people will start being lazy. Not to mention hardly anyone will try for harder jobs such as a surgeon because they'd get paid the same working at a register.

you think that because you can't think outside the moral system that has been taught to you. Actually it would foster people to only do jobs they love, follow their passions. Would foster respect for those that work in high educational jobs such as doctors, teach humility and would rid monetary based class systems. The only class system would be, are you working? are you in education? are you contributing in any other way? if not then you have no respect for your community or fellow man. This is the next step before ridding the world of our money system as EoP has mentioned.



"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

Delete

brenonfire413
brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 514
Posted:The sad things about these global disasters is that there are people out there who are thinking "sweet, here's my chance to profit on all this money and goods flying around!" Part of the reasons I don't like charity organizations is I'm never sure how much of my money is going to do real good. If I give a dollar, how much of that goes to someone who needs it, and how much goes into the pocket of someone looking to make a fortune exploiting ignorance. Of course not everything is that way, but sometimes its hard to distinguish genuine care from masked intentions.

"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

Delete

brenonfire413
brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 514
Posted:Originally Posted By: This Jaded Flesh Actually it would foster people to only do jobs they love, follow their passions. Would foster respect for those that work in high educational jobs such as doctors, teach humility and would rid monetary based class systems. The only class system would be, are you working? are you in education? are you contributing in any other way? if not then you have no respect for your community or fellow man. This is the next step before ridding the world of our money system as EoP has mentioned.


Or it would reduce the entire world to a Road Warrior state of civilizations where everybody wears furs and has badass mohawks and rides around the barren wastelands in cobbled together vehicles. In short it would be FREAKING AWESOME!


"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

Delete

Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:I agree. It's something I don't particularly like, especially given the increase in the number of people who are paid to collect charity donations. I've been much less inclined to donate to charities since that system started.

Although sometimes it just can't be helped, like when warlords (for example) need to be paid off to allow the aid into the country. I can't really see an easy way around that.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

brenonfire413
brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 514
Posted:Not to mention religious organizations getting it up their ass to "save" the heathen voodoo-worshipers and show them who their true savior should be. People can be generous for selfish reasons.

"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

Delete

Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:yup! I have a massive gripe with the Catholic Church and condoms and all the censored that creates with HIV/AIDS et al

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

Felex
Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head
Member Since: 1st Jun 2009
Total posts: 268
Posted:Well your working for the people not for your self.
So thats your motive to work harder.
Still remember a documentary were a yank family sent there daughter to the United soviet states. Soviet Union....... Russia.
Because they were the only ones willing/capable of carrying out the operation. So lazy.

Oh and speaking of mad with power. Flipping Bush!
Call me a commie if you like. Go on dare you.


Delete

WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:^^^^ your a big red commie?

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:whilst it is true that charitable organizations do have an administration to finance, it is incorrect to put them in doubt per se.

personally I only count money paid for humanitarian reasons as being "aid" - other (political) motifs are more along the line of bribing a government, economy and clash of political systems/ religious philosophies.

poverty as a competitive element or the only effective catalyst for growth IMO could be seen as propaganda, but shows a clear lack of adequate education. if I find happiness in what I do I will do it the best way I can and not get tired of it. at the same time it doesn't matter if what I do pays well - but provides unhappiness - no money in the world could compensate me for peace of mind.

but that's offtopic innit?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Now after the Haiti disaster international aid is being poured into this country as to help its suffering population. The way the situation was handled IMHO showed clearly how natural disasters of this massive scale exceed our capabilities.

I must say that I find humanitarian aid a marker for the evolution of mankind.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Page: 123