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Merlyn


Merlyn

stranger
Location: uk

Total posts: 7
Posted:I have been in contact with First Act Insurance, the people who do the add on fire insurance to the Equity membership public liability insurance, for a few months and been raising the topics of Fuel containers and prop extinguishing and storage.

The policy does say that you must put out and store all fire props in air-tight metal containers and that fuel must not be taken to gigs/used in containers over 2.5 litres.

I have got them to agree that lager and more unusual kit ie Hula Hoop, Staff etc can be put out and stored sensibly with due care (I pointed out nobody make airtight metal containers for these props so using them would be hard!). They have also agreed to suitable fuel containers up to 4 litre (the plastic 4 litre container parafin comes in is included) are ok, which is better for big shows especialy!.

The only annoying bit is that they want to tack on in writing (on their system) to the end of your policy INDIVIDUALLY. This mean if you want these 'easing of terms' to apply to you as well then you MUST CONTACT THEM PERSONALLY and ask for it to be applied to you.

The person you need to contact is

Stuart.Cowie@hencilla.co.uk

or phone the number on the back of your Equity card (first act insurance) and ask for STUART COWIE.


Lastly PLEASE tell anyone you know with Equity Fire Cover to do this as then we may get them to reword the original policy instead of a person by person clause being added to individual policies.

Thanks

Merlyn


I'd rather go Poi with myself!

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:not that its really relevant to me, but good work in making insurance more practical for everyone smile

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:When they asked me for my general risk assessment/code of conduct it stated that paraffin should be stored in 'a metal container or it's original packaging' which they seemed to be happy with..

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Merlyn


Merlyn

stranger
Location: uk

Total posts: 7
Posted:Thanks Mr Majestik

LazyAngel,
Its about what is stated in their rules not your risk assessment (they tend to take the view that their rules supersede what you say you adhere to in your code of conduct) and this takes that possible conflict out before having to argue the case post accident as to whether the insurance was valid plus no more issue about some kit not extinguished and stored in air tight metal containers coz my staffs and friends fire hula hoops weren't.


I'd rather go Poi with myself!

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sichainey
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

enthusiast
Location: bournemouth/dorset/uk

Total posts: 242
Posted:Hello community,

I recently took out Equity Insurance for performing, when I added the fire cover I soon realised it wasn't suitable for what you would call your typical fire performer/show.
Where as Equity we very friendly and professional and have passed the letter onto FIRST ACT, the insurance group they use .... I have had no reply to the email sent 19 Sept.

Anyway if anyone's interested here it is ....



Dear Equity,

I'm emailing in response to our telephone conversation earlier today regarding restraints placed upon the "fire top-up" offered by First Act the designated insurers for Equity. Firstly I would like to explain my position within the community as well as my knowledge regarding the safe practise of fire.

My name is Simon Chainey head of a performance group called F.L.A.M.E which is now in it's 4th season and currently working all over the UK, as well as the performance side we also host a circus festival called the Southern Lights Circus Arts Festival ( www.southernlightsfestival.com ) the festival is aimed at amateur and professional performers within the circus community and has a very strong fire manipulation/performance presence. The festival currently operates at 500 people. I'm also present on all of the circus forums via the internet.
I also hold a day job as a full time Fire Fighter which I have held for 7 years thus giving me extensive knowledge of safe practises with fire.

One month ago I took the step to join Equity as I saw this as a progression within my performance career, I intended to hold all my insurances through Equity and it's associated insurers. After I joined I was passed to First Act to "top-up" my policy with regards to fire, upon receiving the fire criteria I soon released I was unable to follow the guidelines set down with certain restrictions in place. The following points listed below make the policy unrealistic for a Fire Troupe to be insured. I'm well aware of many groups who are insured via this scheme and are unable to meet the demands thus making them not insured.

LEVEL OF COVER: Currently First Act are only able to offer 2 million cover, where as most councils ask for a cover of 5 million. I fear groups will hand over their 10 million cover offered by Equity and keep the under insured fire element quiet, this now creates a situation where if something was to happen the group would not be insured.

STORAGE OF FIRE PROPS: Its stated that all fire props are to be kept in a locked metal box when not in use. Some pieces of equipment are large/awkward shapes and to be put into a metal box is unpractical i.e. Fire hoops and Fire staff's. Does the prop have to stay in the metal box up till the point it's ignited? Again this is something that groups are unable to stick to.

If all props weren't to be prepped until they were in a designated area this would eliminate the need for metal box storage.

QUANTITY OF FUEL ALLOWED: The policy states that only 2.5 litres of fuel may be carried. An average 4 person fire show would use anything up to 8 litres per show and a group could be booked to perform 6 shows over a weekend.

Ideally this would be raised up to 50 litres and stipulate that all fuel to kept in the correct containers (jerry cans) and only the fuel needed for the show to be present within the area. Flammable sticker on the vehicle carrying the fuel and possible a COSHH sheet present within the vehicle.

I appreciate why these measures are in place but I feel they are aimed more at your classic street show with a fire juggling section. This policy greatly inhibits a working fire troupe to the point where I have had to go back to my old insurance group to ensure I'm properly covered. I would like to see if these points could be addressed and possibly come with a "add on fee" to enable fire troupe's to be properly covered.

I'm more than happy to liaise with the company direct and offer advice and guidance to how the fire performance industry works. If you have any questions I can be contacted via email or telephone ***********
Many thanks for your time,

Simon Chainey


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Si, whats your home phone number? it has somehow been replaced with stars.

Its a good email though smile


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sichainey
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

enthusiast
Location: bournemouth/dorset/uk

Total posts: 242
Posted:LOL that is my number UCOF just a load of stars ...... thought id best keep somthing personal hidden before someone steals my idenity to buy a shippment of Viagra from India

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Viagra comes from Canada though....

confused2


So if I just press the asterisk key on the phone a load of times, I'll get through?


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Didn't work for me, Jon frown

Try something else. smile


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:He's a fireman, if you need him dial 999 wink works for me.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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sichainey
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

enthusiast
Location: bournemouth/dorset/uk

Total posts: 242
Posted:***********UPDATE*******************

Still no word from Equity or First Act. A few major players in the industry have decided to take this to the Equity union and present our cases and make them hear us as a community.

If you have fire cover with equity and fall into the above pitfalls or have considered using Equity but decided not to due to the lack of fire cover please show your support by posting on here.

Many thanks

Simon


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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:>support for the changing of terms

Equity Member title: Flamesmith (My real name was already taken)

At the moment, I'm covered by a group's insurance - but as soon as I have this weekend's big show out of the way I'll be drafting an email to them


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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sichainey
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

enthusiast
Location: bournemouth/dorset/uk

Total posts: 242
Posted:Hi Lazy Angel,

Feel free to use parts of the letter I wrote (see above 7 posts up) if you want to copy me into it simon@flamefireshows.com so I can coloborate a database of complaints.


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