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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:1. After I mix the alcohol fuel and the Tribal Neon fire-dye salts, how long can it be stored?
What I mean is over a roughly 6 to 12 month period is whether I'd have to worry about any form of plastic leeching that would taint the flame colour or anything. I'd be using Digger's Methylated Spirits and the bottle it comes in.

2. What's the best fuel to use on 3D Death Stars?
Trivial question, "best fuels", but surely there is a fuel that can get the biggest fireballs out of 3D death stars. I'm thinking something involving Shellite.

Added 6/1/2010!
3. How do you store alcohol-fueled fire poi heads?
Like, I know you put them in something but using metal would rust and bad things may happen.

Added 8/1/2010!
4. How does the fuel itself affect the flame?
Alright, in some of the answers it was pointed out that the surface area is the main influence on flame size (I knew that part) but there's obviously colour (alcohol + salt) and whatnot. Alcohol produces weaker flames on average, but what I'm wondering is whether there's any major tipping factor because I'm using a 2:1 mixture of kero/citronella oil.

New, added 20/1/10
5. Over what period of time would plastic leeching be a worry to salted fuels?
My previous questions may have been of the wrong concern, but what I'm asking is whether plastic leeching from common single-use chemical-bottles has a noticeable effect on coloured fuels within a period of approximately 6-12 months.

New, added 26/1/10
6. What width and thickness is advisable for kevlar sleeves for contact fire poi (e.g spiral handwraps and such)?
I'm currently thinking either 1.6mm by 100mm or 65mm, but I'm also wondering if 3.2 would be better for this purpose.
_____

A few more questions may arise if I have anymore.

Thanks!

EDITED_BY: Tide (1264509831)


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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:Still not entirely sure with Australian fuel terms, but I'd think something like what we call White Gas, which I think is Shellite, would give the biggest flames. With something as big as a deathstar I don't think you need to worry too much about burn times anyway grin Well, for the BIGGEST I think something more like gasoline would be the biggest, but that is not exactly what I would call safe wink

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Haha, thanks, I thought Shellite was involved in big, bad-ass, probably dangerous fireballs.

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:I'd use kero/paraffin...but that's just me. Honestly i don't think a fuel will alter the flame size, that has to do with how much oxygen the flames are getting....which is what death stars are made to do.

I wouldn't store fuel in a plastic container for an extended period of time, go to a hardware store and get a gallon paint bucket, it has a coating inside to prevent rust.

I have heard of some people storing their toys fueled....i don't get it....maybe put a bag over the heads and rubber band them closed.


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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DrexFactor
GOLD Member since Jul 2007

DrexFactor

Defeats the purpose
Location: Washington, DC USA

Total posts: 73
Posted:I have no idea about #'s 1 and 2, but when storing heads for a performance I can't fuel up at, my usual practice is to stick them into a zip-lock bag, seal it, and stick it inside a sock with the leash trailing out.

Peace,
Drex

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Jameth
GOLD Member since May 2008

Jameth

enthusiast
Location: NSW

Total posts: 378
Posted:Originally Posted By: Tide1. After I mix the alcohol fuel and the Tribal Neon fire-dye salts, how long can it be stored?
What I mean is over a roughly 6 to 12 month period is whether I'd have to worry about any form of plastic leeching that would taint the flame colour or anything. I'd be using Digger's Methylated Spirits and the bottle it comes in.

I have no experience with this but work in a path lab - we use and store a fair range of dyes and solvents including alcohols.

Ideally I'd use a coloured glass bottle (brown or green) with a tight screw cap - an empty, rinsed and dried wine bottle would be ideal. You could put it back into the original bottle for transport when you come to use it if breakage might be an issue.

eta: be careful not to store it anywhere you might keep bottles that have anything drinkable in them and relabel the bottles to say the contents are poisonous, because METHANOL IS POISONOUS

Or ask tribal neon...

EDITED_BY: Jameth (1263160298)


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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Thanks for the answers so far! They've been really useful in putting ideas and stuff together.

One new question :3


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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:I'm allowed to bump, right? I'd like a few more answers, 'n' I'd like my most recent question to have an answer.

EDIT!
@ Jameth
I'm aware that pretty much every liquid used in fire spinning is potentially harmful or fatal, including methanol and it's potential to nervously damage, blind and kill.

EDITED_BY: Tide (1263645159)


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Jameth
GOLD Member since May 2008

Jameth

enthusiast
Location: NSW

Total posts: 378
Posted:Originally Posted By: Tide
@ Jameth
I'm aware that pretty much every liquid used in fire spinning is potentially harmful or fatal, including methanol and it's potential to nervously damage, blind and kill.

I thought you probably were, I just remembered the possible bad things that can happen from putting poison into drink bottles - we had a bloke drink the contents of a beer bottle that held racing car fuel (pure methanol) when the beer got low at a party. By the time his mates woke up the next morning he was dead. It happened partly because he was already fairly drunk and partly because the bottle hadn't been relabelled...


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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:there is a product line of plastic bottles called Nalgene that make awseome indestructible drink bottles,

they also make a whole heap of fuel storage bottles that are plastic, and also indestructable.


These can be found in any good outdoor store, Nalgene is brought to Australia through Sea to Summit - so any store that sells this will sell nalgene products. In sydney these would be like mountain equipment, paddy pallin, scouts outdoor etc etc. Dont buy Kathmandu stuff, they are cheap nasty knockoffs.

Im not sure if they sell a fuel specific container that would have a mouth large enough to put poi heads in it though, but the normal nalgene plastic bottles are still plenty good for this.

The plastic bottles that Diggers Metho comes in is technically single use (ie. disposable), so the leeching would be quite high, so storing it in a better fuel bottle will help, but I dont know if it would improve the life of the fuel significantly.

Also, Shellite makes things go boom REAL GOOD, and has the biggest, brightest flame Ive seen outside of firewater. But play safe with it cause it has taken my eyebrows off more times than I would care to admit.

I think using the kero, citronella mix would have the same flame as a straight kero....

If you mixe kero with shellite you would get better results. I double dip, Let them soak in kero then dip in shellite and it works well wicked!


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Ah, thanks for the idea of the bottles. I'll look into them some time soon.

Shellite, I'm still thinking about the whole danger vs. effect consideration right now.

Kero/citro doesn't burn as hot as pure kero (or at least it doesn't feel like it) and it doesn't smell as bad when standing or burning, costs roughly the same as well.

So yeah, thank you for the answers!


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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:no worries,

shellite isnt really that bad, I use a shellite stove when I go camping, so if its manageable to cook with....

the main things is that it ignites quicker, and its fumes are highly flammable (thats what makes it go boom) if you treat it with respect then its fine. Be well ventilated; keep your fuel dump well seperate and start of slow, so you get used to the hotter and brighter flame.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Hm, I know a lot about shellite but have barely any experience with actually using it.

When you spin Shellite, do you spin it purely or mixed with something else (I dunno, paraffin or kerosene)?

EDIT!
Another main question added to the first post.

EDITED_BY: Tide (1263972896)


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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:^^^^ you can do both, I tend to mix mine with kero just so I have longer burns (I posted above about my double dip smile )

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Oh, whoops, didn't see that. That's a good point, the "heavier" fuels have longer burn times.

What ratio of kero/shellite do you use? I'm thinking 1:1 but that's a really general idea with any fuel mix.


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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:I use 1:1, if Im mixing, if Im double dipping then I soak in kero then dip in shellite.

though TBH I mainly use just kero because shellite is expencive and I need it for my stove.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Fair enough. I saw 1L of Shellite going for like 10-15 dollars, compared to kero's 4L going for like 16...

Anyway, thanks. That's a good factor to remember; cost.

Still one question unanswered on the big slab of questions in the first post :3


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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:why are you storing them fuel soaked?

a ziplock bag.


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009

Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...

Total posts: 111
Posted:Oh, oops. Sorry for that ambiguity, but what I meant was "how do you store poi heads that used alcohol fuels", but your solution works just as well.

Thanks for the answer!

EDIT!
Still one unanswered question and one new one.

EDITED_BY: Tide (1264509521)


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