Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Hybrids

Posted: 31st Dec 2009
Here is a link to the Hybrid thread Andy House (AKA Poi Box II AKA Analema) started back in 2004. Andy is who discovered the concept and coined the term Hybrid. That thraed contains some nice snapshots of Hybrid development over the years. I'd suggest moving this conversation to Andy's thread, after you have reviewed hybrid history.
[Old link]


Concerning CAP:
By my definition you are talking about only one specific type of CAP.
The definition you give differs from the one Damien (AKA French Saltimbanque AKA Zaltymbunk), and he is the one who coined the term, here:
[Old link]

Here is a newer post concerning CAPs:
[Old link]

As one of the people who has most actively spread the term CAP, I must also say that my definition is very closely inline with Damien, who I got the term from.


Concerning Antispin VS Extension from a blfy crosser: What mode are the arms doing? There are tons of variants on this idea. I've been doing one since 2007 that Insignai dubbed the "Antispin Aneurysm"... except that is actually a 1 petal inspin VS 4 petal antispin, arms in together-time (sorta), arms extending and contracting in an offset timing... It is almost exactly like the split-same crosser extensions I do @ 2:17 in the Arizona video, only imagine one is doing 4 petal antispin:

#t=0h2m17s


Mel's video was great, and he is quite talented, but most of those ideas are just variations on stuff that people like Nick Woolsey, Zan, Nevisoul, G, Cyrille, myself, and many others I'm forgetting have proliferated. Could you give me a specific time in Mel's "Mel [tech poi vid] Me & My Shadow", when he is doing this antispin out of same direction crosser, so I can see exactly what you mean?



By all means, post links to your hybrid videos too!

+Alien Jon

Posted: 31st Dec 2009
I think he means 1:17 in Mel's video, but I'm pretty sure it's been done before. I've seen a few people doing it at Play 2007 when playing around with meltdowns, myself included, and that was about 2 years before Mel's video. Still, it's a cool move regardless of who came up with it.

Posted: 31st Dec 2009
Insignia broke down a lot of the combos you're listing a few months ago. Here's a vid of many of them demonstrated:



Ext vs Antispin wouldn't be terribly difficult out of a butterfly crosser--your arms would unwrap in split-time same direction in the same way many people have unwrapped from crossers to giants. The only difference is the direction of the poi.

Peace,
Drex

Posted: 31st Dec 2009
Originally Posted By: AlienJonConcerning CAP:
By my definition you are talking about only one specific type of CAP.
The definition you give differs from the one Damien (AKA French Saltimbanque AKA Zaltymbunk), and he is the one who coined the term, here:
[Old link]

Here is a newer post concerning CAPs:
[Old link]

Can I try get something clear here: the definition you are using for CAPs is that it is a one-handed pattern with variance in time? Whereas a hybrid is a two-handed pattern with variance in space? But since most people poi with two poi, there is confusion?

Not been on Youtube for a while, so not sure if this has been cleared up over there.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 31st Dec 2009
Ok, leme try this again. CAPs have to do with how you sequence geometric building-blocks over time. As such you can break it down to the path 1 poi & handle traces in space, and the sequence that traces it over time.

If you are sequencing stuff that doesn't fit into simple compound circle ratios, ie your "driving-style" or the building-blocks that are making up the move keep changing , you are probably doing a CAP, even with one hand.

Now, make both hands trace out a CAP, in a variety of ways... you are still doing patterns that have the CAP attribute. If your hands are doing different building-blocks/driving-styles at the same time, then the pattern also has the hybrid attribute.

Poi is a bunch of Ven diagrams: there are the set of hybrids, the set of CAPs, and an overlap: the set of hybrid CAPs.

Here is a cheezy example: If you are doing the familiar "C CAP" as Yuta called it, with one hand, and a cateye with the other, there is obviously a CAP going on. It is also a hybrid. If both hands did the C-CAP, then not necessarily a hybrid... Although both hands C-CAP, poi opposite, hands together-same IS a hybrid CAP.


Damien seems really focused on compound circle spinning, as he is thinking of the poi like a spirograph. I personally include building blocks of all distinctly geometric spinning.

There is a grey area when you look at things like sequencing complex inversion/introversion/inside combo patterns together. These are not necessarily being very geometric in spin-plane. If you look at the sequences of cross-points, plane-facing switches and framing, then they can be sequentially rather CAP-like by (my) definition. But right now I think I exclude them from CAPs, and maybe lump them into "Composite spinning" which is really just a mentality I have about treating poi spinning attributes like music and/or visual synthesis.... Sampling, modifying, modulating, sequencing together in multiple tracks.

+Alien Jon

Posted: 1st Jan 2010
Originally Posted By: AlienJonNow, make both hands trace out a CAP, in a variety of ways... you are still doing patterns that have the CAP attribute. If your hands are doing different building-blocks/driving-styles at the same time, then the pattern also has the hybrid attribute.

Cool, that was what I was trying clear up. Thanks.

The problem with the venn diagrams is the confusion they cause at times. I love the way this is such an open prop.

Have not thought of inversion/introversion/insides as CAP-like, but I can see what it has in similiarity, by you definition.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 2nd Jan 2010
Crazy, I didn't know the origins of hybrids. The first one I saw was a mercedes from insignia,
As for the CAP's I didn't mean that was my definition, just meant that was the particular CAP i was referring to with the hybrids I've been working on. Poiboi hit it right on the money with mel's vid at 1:17 and Drex pretty much covered the idea that was in my head. It seems easy in theory but has been giving me trouble for quite some time.

Life is Good

Posted: 2nd Jan 2010
gahh and sorry for my newbness, how do I move this thread to the other discussion?

Life is Good

Posted: 4th Jan 2010
Can not. Unless you are a mod.

Glad someone was able to help though.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 10th Jan 2010
Holy moly! I was mentioned!

I really need to come on HOP more often.

The weird hybrids that I've been breaking into...and actually understanding is the CATEYE vs CAP ones. Now, when I say this, you look at the cateye from the vertical, the horizontal and the diagonal. However, for the use of basic symmetry, I haven't gone into diagonal nonsense.

You have Vertical Cateye vs C CAP. When you do this, I think you can do it in both same direction and opposite direction. I know you can do it in at least opposite direction. For me, my left hand was doing the C CAP on my left side ( movement being from 12 to 6 passing through 9 for the antispin ) while my right hand did the Vertical Cateye. The timings in the parallel arrangements seems to work out best in split time. But, if you change the C CAP orientation to overhead ( movement being from 9 to 3 passing through 12 for the antispin ) you get this "Arrowhead" style hybrid...THING that happens. Mind you, thats only if you are doing a verical cateye. The fundamentals are the same for the horizontal as well.

I vaguely attempted this in one of my latest videos, but failed miserably because I couldn't grasp the mechanics. But, I've been playing around with it a little more...its coming together

I am the storm. I am the wonder.

Posted: 11th Jan 2010
Hmmm.... Can see it. Nice.

Gonna have to try it out.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 12th Jan 2010
Horizontal Cateye vs CAP is a mind and a half. I can do the vertical ones but....damn.

I am the storm. I am the wonder.

Posted: 27th Jan 2010
hey insignia, do you have any advice on the arrowhead hybrid thing. I'm having trouble with the timing, does the top of the cateye meet with the antispin petal from the top c cap? also is this is opposite direction. btw I'm starting to get vertical c cap vs vertical cateye preety ok in spit opposite!!

Life is Good