Forums > Technical Discussion > Cookie Cutters - diss and get dissed for spinning "pick and mix"?

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Cookie Cutter Spinners! beware of the great cookie munching monster! wink

Please excuse if there's another thread about this topic, I dun a search but couldn't find any.

Further please have patience and forgive me, if you feel in any way offended, either because you identify yourself as a "cookie cutter" yourself or find yourself quoted (completely out of context of the rest of your statement/ thread).

To me the term is absolutely new, I stumbled across it term in a few comments/ posts, like:

Originally Posted By: ...the problem of 'cookie cutter spinners'

Originally Posted By: ....learn the moves they like as-is, which leads to "cookie cutter" styles as discussed above.

Originally Posted By: .....so, for example, If you are in a one-off tricks based workshop (...) where there is no holistic approach, and the students intentions are mainly to go and learn tricks, then you are setting up for cookie cutter spinners.

Originally Posted By: .....I think the Cookie-Cutter spinner tendency is not necessarily down to workshops, but down to the general enormous growth in spinning as a whole, and, with that growth, a the introduction of 'fashion' into spinning - where you do something because 'everyone does it'.

Originally Posted By: .......Not that I'm against cookie cutter spinners, if there were more yuta clones out there life for a choreographer would be heaps easier hey.

Originally Posted By: ...........So whilst it may seem we generate a bunch of cookie cutter spinners from a trick based workshop, in the long term those same people may well integrate the movements into a personal style over time, and continue an exploration process on their own, breaking down the "trick" into concepts and components long after the workshop has ended.

Originally Posted By: .........Firstly the name cookie cutter is a totally new one on me and whilst i can guess what it means a deeper explanation would be great wink
Noel, I have no thoughts that you would ever want to stifle creativity and know you love what you do, i also wouldn't want to discourage you or anyone else from be techie online, however i feel like the populist thoughts and norms are leaning towards a more technical/generic approach to spinning and often feel i should try and help maintain a healthy balance

Originally Posted By: ..........Use the same cookie cutter on 100 different hunks of dough and each time you're going to get something practically the same.

Originally Posted By: ........I've found in general that people who really want to push the envelope will do so anyway, those that don't have the passion for creativity are probably a lot happier being cookie cutter spinners, it really depends on what you personally want out of it.

Originally Posted By: .........Is it even possible be a cookie cutter spinner? Maybe. It's really hard not to let your own style shine through. Even if you just stand in one place while doing ultra tech moves, you still have style.

Originally Posted By: ..............It is indeed possible to become a cookie cutter spinner, if you watch enough of a short base of spinners, steal movements from their routines theres a good chance you'll end up modelling your own movement off theirs.

Originally Posted By: .............In fact, its quite natural to be a cookie cutter spinner in your early-intermediate development. During the intermediate development its quite possible to teach people in a much different way. Rather than teaching movements you teach a concept and apply it to known movements.

Originally Posted By: ...........In short, without actually seeing a different way of spinning, it is very hard to let any sort of creativity shine through, unless their heads are wired in the right way to want to try new things, which many people are not. (Compare how many people spin [well] and how many actually push the boundaries and innovate.)

So yeah, cookie cutter is possible for many people.

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1261474635)
EDIT_REASON: titler ; )


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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brenonfire413
brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 514
Posted:That is another point, the other end of the spectrum where somebody can do some impressive tricks, but basically does the same things over and over. Is that another type of cookie cutter individual?

I'm so new to poi that I'd be happy to get half of the tricks I know how to do correctly most of the time in a spin. I'm going slowly, having only been spinning for two cold months! I figure it's better to get a few tricks down really well then to try and quickly build up a list of different tricks I barely know. And not just learning the correct planes and different hand positions, but also how to link different tricks with one and another. Things are still going slow though, I can get one direction of the basic butterfly pretty good, but doing the reverse or even one hand in front of the other is giving me tangle issues.

But still people have different expectations on what they want from poi. Some people naturally have that creative state of mind to really get into a hobby and explore it to all ends. Other people are more technical and learn what is presented in front of them as best they can exactly how it is shown. One isn't necessarily better than the other, but not everybody will see some task in the same way.


"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:With more consideration. Why people even use the word cookie cutter is beyond me since everyone is a cookie cutter no matter the skill. Cookie cutter is basically either 1) a noob/untapped potential or 2) doing the same censored over and over. No matter how you intellectualize a hyperloop you're still doing hyperloops. So yeah, I retract my earlier statement about 90% being cookie cutters. We may as well stop posting in this thread since it's going no where. We're mincing around the issue! Frankly, terms like this just make it clear for me who is the intellectual dirt and who's not.

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshWith more consideration. Why people even use the word cookie cutter is beyond me since everyone is a cookie cutter no matter the skill. Cookie cutter is basically either 1) a noob/untapped potential or 2) doing the same censored over and over.

Fair point as well. I think the distinction comes in as to whether you are pushing the edge of the art. Which the overwhelming majority of people are not, even if they are able to give a good performance.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:i am a fan of amusingly shaped delectable dough grin

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Alan_OCallaghan
stranger

Member Since: 29th Apr 2009
Total posts: 4
Posted:The only real cookie-cutter spinner I've seen was at a juggling convention in Tralee. He went up for the renegade show and did Ronan's routine to a tee, probably with a few minor changes (and a few drops). Don't get me wrong, he's an awesome spinner and I bet his fire poi looks unique, but it was bordering on plagiarism.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:I'm considering to install a copyright agency for fire performances... anyone developing new moves, please report to me wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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triptrician
UFO Spotting
Location: Queensland
Member Since: 26th Feb 2010
Total posts: 350
Posted:Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshWith more consideration. Why people even use the word cookie cutter is beyond me since everyone is a cookie cutter no matter the skill. Cookie cutter is basically either 1) a noob/untapped potential or 2) doing the same censored over and over. No matter how you intellectualize a hyperloop you're still doing hyperloops. So yeah, I retract my earlier statement about 90% being cookie cutters. We may as well stop posting in this thread since it's going no where. We're mincing around the issue! Frankly, terms like this just make it clear for me who is the intellectual dirt and who's not.

i fully agree why coin a new term when there are terms for both points that perfectly sum them up
1)NOOB 2)BORING


would rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal lobotomy

"The dangers of life are infinate and among them is safety"(geothe)

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I like those terms smile

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:though that's not a equation wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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