Forums > Social Chat > 3 burns and already a possible job.

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Wow, I am amazed at how knowing the right people can mean everything in life. I just did a show for my family and it was only my 3rd burn. I had 1 or 2 awkward moments my parents said, but no one else noticed as they were too mesmerized by the fire. My cousin Jason has been manager of a giant bar and other things. Turns out he may know a lot of people that would want to hire me to do shows. And this is only after 3 burns! Also, I had my first fire orbital grin I feel like the world is just telling me something, that this is my calling and I should follow it. Also, I learned not to do whirling on unlevel ground as it makes it very awkward and get out of formation.
My family had amazing reactions, I have done it once before with LED's for them, not too much compliments there. Just them asking me what it is. While when I did it with fire, they had shocking reactions, a ton of awesomeness, oh my godding, gasping, and so on. And then I start getting told I might have some job opportunities O_o And remember, no one has seen anything like this before, as there are near no spinners in Michigan.
Edit: If a club owner or someone setting up a large party or anything like that does approach me and they ask how much I want for a show, what should I say??? O_o I've always been terrible at these things.

EDITED_BY: SpinnerofDetroit (1261722132)


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Zephyre Phoenix
Zephyre Phoenix

Familiar stranger giving out popcorn. (formerly Ascilith)
Location: Lawrence, KS
Member Since: 1st Nov 2009
Total posts: 1264
Posted:Omg you suck. But in a good way cuz your so freakin lucky. Congrats on your fire orbital btw. grin
As for how much to ask, I wouldnt have a clue. I'd say start high (100,150ish) and negotiate from there but that's just my best guess. The older spinners would probably know better than I would.


Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:It has been covered loads. Try looking in the help section.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:I'm not sure what prices are around the US. Around here people who've been performing for years get around 1000$ per show, and people like me (just starting to perform independently) get around 200$ per gig.

If you're gonna perform I'd say work on crowd communication when spinning, try looking at random spots around you, imagining there's crowd members there, and smile a lot smile


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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted:Originally Posted By: AscilithOmg you suck. But in a good way

Werd. You lucky schmuck ^_^


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Originally Posted By: _Poiboy_I'm not sure what prices are around the US. Around here people who've been performing for years get around 1000$ per show, and people like me (just starting to perform independently) get around 200$ per gig.

If you're gonna perform I'd say work on crowd communication when spinning, try looking at random spots around you, imagining there's crowd members there, and smile a lot smile
OH MY censored HELL TO censored censored!!!! shocked I never even Imagined I could be making that much! I'll probably start at $150 since I'm a beginner and work from there.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:A lot of which is will have to be used for covering expenses, including stuff like phone calls, transport, wear on equipment, spotter, public liability insurance, advertising, costuming etc.

Again, the help threads have quite a bit of info about this sort of thing. Generally under queries about how much someone should charge for a show.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Originally Posted By: astonpublic liability insurance

Do this before you perform.
Do this before you perform.
Do this before you perform.

If something goes wrong, and either someone gets hurt or a fire starts, you could be liable to pay for repairs or compensation.

It's worth getting it and knowing that you are covered, rather than checking if you are covered by the venue's insurance every time you perform.

Get it, and go from there. smile

Other than that, there are quite a few threads about starting to perform.


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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Couldn't I make them sign a contract making me not liable?

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Seaspray
Seaspray

stranger by the day
Location: At the Back of the North Wind
Member Since: 8th Jul 2009
Total posts: 924
Posted:Without knowing much about it, I imagine people are very capable of trying to make you capable for damages.

Might lose you work


Just a dancer in the dark

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I have a slightly altered artist performance contract, I could just alter it a little more and put it in there. Me and my family just does not have the kind of money for that kind of thing. But those are some good arguments for the price when/if people ask me to perform for them.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:Originally Posted By: SpinnerofDetroitCouldn't I make them sign a contract making me not liable?

In essence this is called a waiver form. It would say to the effect that there is inherent risk in the activity and that you will not be held liable for any damage to persons and property during your performance. You would need every person in the venue to sign it. If there are any underage persons, their parents or guardians would need to sign it.

The trouble with this is it only covers risks and danagers that a normal person would be aware of. For example a normal person is aware that touching the poi head while on fire would cause burns; Your waiver MIGHT cover it (I will explain why not in a minute). A normal person would not be aware of the danger of excess fuel spray. So if someone gets an eyeful of Kero you will be liable.

Waivers also do not cover NEGLIGENCE. and this is the real clincher, negligence is when an incidence occurs when someone under your duty of care is injured or property damaged that resulted form something that is forseeable and should have been avoided or managed.

The person touching your poi head for example; This is a forseeable incident and should be covered but the fact that it is foreseeable and it happened showed that you did not take adequate precautions to stop it from happening = negligence.

The waiver itself can be used against you if an accident happens. Say for example in your waiver you explain you will not be held liable for any damage to property or person as a result of fuel spray. If someone does get fuel in the eye The fact that you Identified it as a risk in the first place and it happened also points to negligence. Or something retarded like if you erect a barrier so that people stay a safe distance away, someone ducks the rope and then cops an eyeful of kero shows that you identified the risk; but did not address it adequately also = negligence

If you are using waiver forms, it means you have identified that there are risks in your activities. So you would also need Risk Assessment forms and Management strategies. If these are not indeph and up to bar, not only re you negligent but you are Criminally negligent (in Australia at least, I assume America is worse).

Essentially if you are going to do forms and stuff that people sign that waive rights and identify risks, see a lawyer and make sure you run a VERY professional gig; otherwise all you do is shoot yourself in the foot.

Get insurance, or make sure your covered by the venues insurance.


*disclaimer; this is what I found out when I started rock climbing instructing; and by organising and writing waiver forms and risk management forms for outdoor companies in Australia.

EDITED_BY: WoodlandApple (1261808536)


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:and HELL YEAH, thats freekin awsome dude!

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Wow, the law really does find ways to blame anything on anyone doesn't it? And if I do get popular, how much on average would said insurance cost?

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:I cant help you with that.

I would be trying to make sure I was insured with the venue;

In Aus, there is a thing called working as a hobby. You sign a perticular decleration stating that what your doing is a hobby, and that you are not getting paid for it. You are entitled to reimbursement of up to $4000 (ish) a year. THe cool thing about this as you no longer fall under the classification as work, and the insurance is therefore placed on the person or venue that asked you to come. You also dont have to pay tax on what you earnt but I would have no idea if the same thing exists in USA.

My best advice, is whatever you do, dont do half assed. Make sure your backside is covered; make sure that what your doing is safe but if the [censored] hits the fan, make sure none of it can stick to you. and make sure that you get paid for what what you do. And enjoy yourself. Being paid to do something you love doing is the best feeling ever.

EDITED_BY: WoodlandApple (1261821526)


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Quote:Wow, the law really does find ways to blame anything on anyone doesn't it? And if I do get popular, how much on average would said insurance cost?

No, i think in this case the law finds a way to blame the person responsible. I think it is fairly reasonable that if you are fire spinning and cause an accident then you can expect to be held responsible.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueQuote:Wow, the law really does find ways to blame anything on anyone doesn't it? And if I do get popular, how much on average would said insurance cost?

No, i think in this case the law finds a way to blame the person responsible. I think it is fairly reasonable that if you are fire spinning and cause an accident then you can expect to be held responsible.

lol I like this poster.


"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueNo, i think in this case the law finds a way to blame the person responsible. I think it is fairly reasonable that if you are fire spinning and cause an accident then you can expect to be held responsible.

and by having insurance it means that whoever you my hurt has proper care and recovery, while not destroying your own life in the process.

waivers and the such are there only to to stop you being held responsible for other peoples accidents/stupidity while you are spinning.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Originally Posted By: This Jaded Fleshlol I like this poster.

Yeah, ElectricBlue is cool smile

The insurance will be about $225 for a year, ish, based on it being around 150 a year over here.


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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:OH that's it? Hell I could do that, unless of course because American insurance companies like to squeeze every last penny you have out of you and throw you into debt, I thought it would be more like that much month.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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MikefromGlos
MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England
Member Since: 10th Jul 2006
Total posts: 985
Posted:but make sure that it specficly covers you to fire spin because some comapnys will void your insurance read the policy real carefuly

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Yeah, I'll make sure about that. If I do start getting regularly hired, or if I get a regular customer where I am not covered, I will be sure to get that insurance. Also, I was thinking for something like the 4th of July, if I wanted to spin in public, would I contact the fire department to see if I can or what to do? I am one that is very responsible with fire, and they might see me do it under strict watch, and be impressed, and if they are not, then I got away with doing it in public for the day wink

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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MikefromGlos
MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England
Member Since: 10th Jul 2006
Total posts: 985
Posted:differant areas and states have differant fire regulations and laws

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:That's why I'd go to the fire dept, they'd know all that crap for where they're at :3

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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forrestfire
forrestfire

lonely spinner
Location: Houston, Texas
Member Since: 15th Aug 2009
Total posts: 67
Posted:do you need performers insurance for doing competitions?!?!?

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Idk, that's a good question

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Performers insurance is really not about weather you need it or not legally to perform.

It is about if you are willing to risk your livelihood to not have it as a professional performer. It is not worth trying to skate around the issue and find loopholes because if some thing goes wrong then you still may be found liable. Just get the insurance.

Regarding competitions, you will have to look in to each competition individually don't ever assume that you will be covered. I would imagine that a fire spinning competition might have cover but any other talent quest type thing probably won't cover fire.

In the end you are better of just saving up getting the insurance. If this is some thing that you really want to make a go of then you will get at least %50 more bookings if you can straight up say that you are covered.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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forrestfire
forrestfire

lonely spinner
Location: Houston, Texas
Member Since: 15th Aug 2009
Total posts: 67
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBluePerformers insurance is really not about weather you need it or not legally to perform.

It is about if you are willing to risk your livelihood to not have it as a professional performer. It is not worth trying to skate around the issue and find loopholes because if some thing goes wrong then you still may be found liable. Just get the insurance.

Regarding competitions, you will have to look in to each competition individually don't ever assume that you will be covered. I would imagine that a fire spinning competition might have cover but any other talent quest type thing probably won't cover fire.

In the end you are better of just saving up getting the insurance. If this is some thing that you really want to make a go of then you will get at least %50 more bookings if you can straight up say that you are covered.


mans got answers


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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Yeah, I just talked to my cousin who knows this kind of stuff, here's basically what he told me: People who set up these parties look for a lot of things, you will get paid a ton more money if you can do more than one fire thing. You will be expected to perform for a long time. I may not be hired very much until I am 18 for liability reasons. I need to put out demo tapes and that will give me a lot of customers. And I will get much more customers if I am insured.
I was thinking the things I could do were Poi (duh), single staff, double staff, and rope dart. And by the time I am 18 and will be really out there, I will have gotten good at doing these, And I know rope dart is not too hard and is amazing because you are swinging an amazingly enormous fire ball on the end of a really long chain. I figured all I need for this is a giant monkey fist head and I could make my own chain and rope. Also, would HoP's welded chain be able to handle that? Also, would HoP's swivel be able to handle that because I don't want a giant flaming gorilla fist flying somewhere.
Edit: How do I attach rope to chain???

EDITED_BY: SpinnerofDetroit (1261962961)


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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forrestfire
forrestfire

lonely spinner
Location: Houston, Texas
Member Since: 15th Aug 2009
Total posts: 67

SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:That works too... Also, is there a way I could get that with lets say a 3.5'' head? The one on there is 2.5'' I would love to get some jobs at least now too help pay for my gear, because man these are expensive. I've already decided that when these poi are in need of replacing, btw how long does HoP's cathedrals last, that I will fork up a little extra for some Isis poi. And if I make some staffs to practice with` out of wooden poles, what should I put on as a handle?

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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