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Derek_Faughn
PLATINUM Member since May 2008

DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX

Total posts: 101
Posted:Does anyone got any advice on split time stalls? Is there a good excersize for this? Every time i try to do them my hand always keep getting in the way of each other. And i can't continuously do them. I can only do it on one side and can't get the poi to get over to the other side. Please help!

"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:Where are you trying to place the stalls? It might help for knowing how your collisions are happening. As for continuously doing them, that's a pain. Your planes need to be super tight, but gravity also adds a big difference in acceleration between your poi coming out of the stall. The only way I've found to balance that out is to add a bit of a flick of the wrist when pulling the down-stalled poi. The hard parts are flicking just the right amount, with only the correct wrist.

As far as exercises, what's helped me so far is trying, just with one hand, to stall up and down in time with a beat; this is harder than it sounds because the transition from downstall to upstall will try to be longer than the other direction. This might help to feel out how it works as a repetitive motion.

P.S. I learned most of what I know from your tutorials, so I just wanted to take a moment to say thanks for those!

EDITED_BY: Sister Eleven (1260868878)
EDIT_REASON: Postscript


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Mr_Joe
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Mr_Joe

Part-time genius


Total posts: 59
Posted:Do you mean split butterfly stalls? If so, the most useful exercise for me has been, with just one poi, continuously upstalling on each side of my body with no circles in the middle, just a swing across the bottom. Same goes for the downstalling, just keep doing it continuously between swings across the top, with no circles. Obviously it's important to do this with both hands. Once that's comfy (you may already be there) fiddle with the placement of the stall, stop it high and low and concentrate on getting them dead vertical (mirrors are an invaluable aid for that). Apart from that, if you want the poi to stall next to each other, rather than head-to-head it helps to know beforehand which is going to be in front and which behind, which should ease your tangling issue.

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_Poiboy_
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel

Total posts: 1113
Posted:Derek, These are new to me for now, but I'll try to make a tutorial smile

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Tankboy
SILVER Member since Jan 2006

Resident Demolitions Expert
Location: San Francisco, Ca

Total posts: 103
Posted:There is only one answer....practice.

Stalls are hard.
Hard to get clean.

Just put in your hours.


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Derek_Faughn
PLATINUM Member since May 2008

DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX

Total posts: 101
Posted:Well i had been trying to learn them same direction, with the both poi stalling on my left side of my body first, and on the way to my right it becomes a mess. I'm finding hard to figure out which hand to lead with, or if that even matters.

Here's what happens now that i try to visualize whats going on.
I lead with my left hand, it stalls upward to my left, just before my right stalls upward to the left side. I lead with my left again to the right side to do the same, but it has to cross the front of me on the inside of my right arm, and thats where it gets all in a mess.

Is this the wrong approach? Or do I just need to put in more time in practice?

And i hadn't thought of doing them in butterfly but i will now. it seems a bit easier.


"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:So it sounds like you're starting from a split time same direction spin, stalling one on your left side, and then stalling the other in roughly the same place and in the same direction a half beat later. Then you're swinging your first hand back over to the other side of your body to stall it there, followed by the other a half beat later, and then ideally to continuously swing them back and forth so you're upstalling in an alternating pattern on both sides of your body. Do I have this correct?

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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere

Total posts: 290
Posted:I'd recommend abstracting this concept from "split-time" spinning. I think of it as "staggered" or "offset" rhythm. From different contexts, you can get into from all the timings: ie together-same, split-same, quarter-same, tog-opposite, split-opposite, quarter-opposite... It just depends on wether you are stalling to the same site, or different sites.

Sister Eleven hit the nail on the head by saying you are stalling one poi, waiting half a beat and then stalling the other: the stalls are offset or staggered in time. Conversely you can spin in split-same and stall on either side of your circle (2 different stall sites) so that your stalls land their 0-points at exactly the same time... and then you can do the version of that that lands the same time, but is 180 (1pi) out of phase in the repeating pattern.

Since we are typically dealing with a repeatable stall pattern that is oscillating between 2 stalls (ie up then down, or left then right) you can think of the temporal relationships of when the stalls land in terms of phase:

Your stall timing could be in phase AKA 0 (2pi) out of phase: they will stall to the same site at the same time.

Your stall timing could be 180 (1pi) out of phase: they will stall to opposite sites at the same time.

Your stall timing could be 90 (pi/2) out of phase: they will stall staggered in time. This means they are equally offset in time from the same stall site AND opposite stall sites. There are 2 versions: poi A leads or poi B leads.

You can switch the leader by making the lead poi do a rotation so that the chasing stall will over take it and become the new leader. It is possible to do what you are doing without changing the leader, but on one side you will have to stall your arms into a crossed position, so it can get messy, as you said.

An easier way to do continues staggered stalls is to constantly turn your body so that your hands never have to cross. It feels really nice, like one poi is hopping after the other as you turn.


+Alien Jon

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leospoi
SILVER Member since Feb 2008

leospoi

Poi explorer
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 108
Posted:Yeah try learning like Alienjon said with your body turning all the time so you don't worry about crossing your arms at first. For me it helped that I'd been playing with pendulums a lot beforehand so I was doing lots of split time pendulums and just started extending the pendulum stalls into an up or overhand stalls.

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Derek_Faughn
PLATINUM Member since May 2008

DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX

Total posts: 101
Posted:Yes! Exactly.

"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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Derek_Faughn
PLATINUM Member since May 2008

DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX

Total posts: 101
Posted:Thanks! That helps alot. Turning the body makes everything so much easier. And i'll be playing with switching the leading hand as well.

"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:While stalls are one of my stronger points, unfortunately this is one I can't help with. Upstall-to-upstall swings are something I just don't have a feel for. In fact, if something helps you out with those, let me know what it is tongue2

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Derek_Faughn
PLATINUM Member since May 2008

DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX

Total posts: 101
Posted:What alienjon had replied pretty much did it for me. You can turn between going from the left to right side. Or you can have one poi spin an extra beat so each hand changes the lead position. Just read Jon's message.

"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:Ah, I meant even just one-handed upsstall-upstall swings are giving me trouble right now, much less two handed. It's a project, is all.

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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:I've been having a time with this myself, but more so in opposites. Any advice for that scenario?

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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e6
SILVER Member since Apr 2009

e6

we are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
Location: falls church, virginia, usa

Total posts: 45
Posted:nick woolsey's "cubing" exercise helped me a lot:



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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:Heh. Tripped again by my habit of forgetting to watch videos all the way through. The first couple parts of that got me playing with stalls for plane and timing changes again, but apparently I ran off to play with that before getting to the part where he has the tip on upstalls tongue2

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceI've been having a time with this myself, but more so in opposites. Any advice for that scenario?

Again, I think it's helpful to know where you're trying to place the stalls. Where are your poi during their initial stall, and where are you trying to make them end up?


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:The downward stall is my hardest area with opposites, I can't seem to get the momentum right. The upstall would be the second hardest for me. Both I'm trying to do individually for directional changes while swinging in split time.

My straight out stalls are going fine in same time, split time, and opposites both in front and behind me and downward I can get in same time inspin.

I hope that can help the lending of advice...


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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