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Forums > Social Discussion > Politically correct terms and words we aren't allowed to use anymore

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natasqi


natasqi

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Posted:Continued from the US Education thread...

How do we decide what words to use anymore in the PC world? I'm talking about black, coloured, retard etc etc.

In Medicine, I was learning about skulls and learnt it as Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid +/- Australoid.
Later I used the term Mongoloid and was severly told off because you're not allow to use the term Mongoloid because it has non-PC connitations for Downs syndrome...
But these terms are still helpful in Forensic Anthropolgy...
So, someone decided to call Down's Syndrome people "Mongs" and it caught on and suddenly, the term Mongoloid wasn't allowed to be used anymore.

Same with Retard. Retardate was a word used in Medicine for many years (and still is with the STYCAR) , then people started to use the term "retard" derogatively. SO retard was struck off the language.

I can definietly understand how words like 'coloured' are offensive. Coloured creates an us and other polarisation.

The word 'black' has historical meaning... but if it didn't, would it still be offensive? Travelling in Africa, I got called "whitey". Is this racist? is it not racist because it doesn't have historical meaning and links to slavery and oppression?

Will we ever be able to 'claim' these words back?
i.e. can doctors use retardate again?
Or maybe can we decide that retardate ISN'T used to describe disabled/differently abled individuals and then youngsters are allowed to call each other 'retard' because it has taken on a whole new meaning in their language?

The word idiot had a similar history, being used to describe someone who was mentally deficient/differently abled (hell, even I don't know what terms to use) but now, most people could use idiot without someone saying "Hey, my borhter has a mental deficiency, I find that offensive" like would happen with the word retard.

Same goes for 'gay'.

When can we use these words? Should they be taken out of the language all together? Are they offensive if we use then in their original meaning i.e. retardate?


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OhNoItsLuna


OhNoItsLuna

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Pojehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574402/Women-and-gay-men-are-worst-drivers.html

I'm glad everyone I know says I drive like a man then.


Willing to trade cheesecake for lessons.

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

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Posted:http://www.allmusicals.com/lyrics/avenueq/everyonesalittlebitracist.htm
br>
My 2c....


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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JaredW
SILVER Member since Oct 2009

JaredW

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Pojehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574402/Women-and-gay-men-are-worst-drivers.html

Funny this comes up on the day I get two different letters in the mail. Both of them with pictures and a total of seven fines lol laugh3


EDITED_BY: Thezack (1258665724)
EDIT_REASON: Counted wrong, make that eight.


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JayKitty
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

JayKitty

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Posted:My bad poje, your avatar is right under your avatar. I just remembered you were in a part of the US that is way too hot that wasn't florida, my first thought was texas, lol. I'm not sure about other countries but the US is amazing. From coast to coast East coast west coast mentalities are so different. At least that's what I hear.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

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natasqi


natasqi

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Posted:This Jaded Flesh.. usually in these types of studies they'd just ask if people identified with being gay.. this rues out any kind of testing...

Like most surveys ask if you identify with being Indigenous Australian because people argue about that all the time...


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
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Posted:Originally Posted By: natasqiLike most surveys ask if you identify with being Indigenous Australian because people argue about that all the time...

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this? I find it very interesting to hear about another country's racial relations and views on what constitutes as indigenous.

On every form I fill out here in America my race is "Other" because I'm multiracial so my experience is unique since I don't have a definitive race (I have 5 of the "base races" in my lineage so I just identify as an individual). I think it's funny how people are still stuck on such classifications and it's interesting to hear their motivations for it. Minority status and affirmative action have been driving the issues here, do you have things similar to that in Australia where there are benefits to being a minority or indigenous?

*is curious*


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Mr Majestik
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Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice...do you have things similar to that in Australia where there are benefits to being a minority or indigenous?

indigenous peoples are basically the decendants of the aboriginal and torres straight islanders (of which there were hundreds of unique nations spread over the country) who existed here prior to british colonisation. some of which may not appear "typically" indigenous because of mixed heritage, im not sure if there is a certain measure of being indigenous or not for those people.

i wouldnt say there are "benefits" to being indigenous, its widely known that indigenous australians are disadvantaged in terms of health, employment, housing..etc and are over represented in the prison systems, and because of this there are government and non government bodies who aim to assist and improve the lives of indigenous peoples through various schemes, some of which dont work and some do.

Originally Posted By: epitomeI think it's funny how people are still stuck on such classifications and it's interesting to hear their motivations for it.

not that i have any special insight, but i would say the classification is relevant due to previously stated well documented deficiency's in health and general life outcomes, and the possibility of having tailored assistance to aid with that, and more importantly the refusal to lose culture and national identity which is to this day still being eroded by the western occupation. i know thats not going to change, but for indigenous australians who have suffered for the last two hundred years under 'white' australia, i could understand how that could still make you bitter and desire to make known your position in history both today and in the past and essentially fight for your "classification" to save it from obliteration by western globalization.

i think its worth noting that indigenous peoples are not just some "poor australians", but in the majority of cases were made an underclass from the times of the british invasion. you cant undo two hundred years of persecution, and i expect as with african americans in the US they dont want anyone to forget who made their 'race' socially downtrodden in the first place. no matter how multicultural we claim to be today, we cant ignore the reasons why some people are sick and poor and others are healthier and have money in the bank.

*gets off soap box* (and wonders why i got up on it in the first place)


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

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Posted:Mr Majestic: It is largely similar in SA. The view is that since indigenees were historically disadvantaged, they should be given preferential treatment when attempting to get jobs and so on.

They call it Affirmative Action. smirk


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Rouge Dragon
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Posted:Don't let me get on my soap box about how there were two positions and two job ads for what was exactly the same job - one for ATSI people and the other for all groups (including ATSI).

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

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Mr Majestik
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Posted:Originally Posted By: astonMr Majestic: It is largely similar in SA. The view is that since indigenees were historically disadvantaged, they should be given preferential treatment when attempting to get jobs and so on.

They call it Affirmative Action. smirk

mmm, the irony is that while trying to help them, we're really only trying to turn them even more into us (by that i mean from their original culture toward western capitalism)


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Ringshadow
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Posted:This stuff annoys me because I hate having to constantly police my vocabulary and figure out what I'm allowed to say. I'm a tiny white chick, 5'2" and about as pale as they get. That said is saying someone else is black racist somehow, or am I just being descriptive? I honestly have no idea.

During the election people in my class were all up and bothered about Obama (yeah, I'm American), and I did hear some people say "He's black" to which I would reply "No, he's a mulatto. He's half black, half white." A few people told me 'mulatto' was a racist term and multiracial is the proper term now. What the heck? I did keep using it.

As for 'retard', if it's a medical term I see no reason why it shouldn't be used in that context. Medicine doesn't have to be politically correct, in my opinion.


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aston
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aston

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Mr MajestikOriginally Posted By: astonMr Majestic: It is largely similar in SA. The view is that since indigenees were historically disadvantaged, they should be given preferential treatment when attempting to get jobs and so on.

They call it Affirmative Action. smirk

mmm, the irony is that while trying to help them, we're really only trying to turn them even more into us (by that i mean from their original culture toward western capitalism)

This is a current (well, since 1994) initiative. I do think that it has calmed down a little in some places.

Still, it is slightly annoying when looking for bursaries and all of them have something to the effect of "Preference will be given to HDIs" (Historically Disadvantaged Individuals).

Anyway, getting off-topic. </hijack>


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

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Posted:Originally Posted By: RingshadowThis stuff annoys me because I hate having to constantly police my vocabulary and figure out what I'm allowed to say. I'm a tiny white chick, 5'2" and about as pale as they get.

wanna go get some coffee? wink

Originally Posted By: Ringshadow
As for 'retard', if it's a medical term I see no reason why it shouldn't be used in that context. Medicine doesn't have to be politically correct, in my opinion.

i think acceptable as well when someone is acting like a retard....


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Pojei think acceptable as well when someone is acting like a retard....

Considering the DDA doesn't use that word and the correct terms are developmentally disabled or developmentally challenged (I use to work for them) that word is fair although I'd never use it near a disabled person. yes

I also didn't know mulatto was a slur, but I'm sure these days when someone asks what I am if I said "mixed" like I always have that may be considered wrong as well. I say multiracial just to be clear to others that I'm not biracial (like the typical mullato, hapa, and other 2 race combinations). I didn't know that in America saying black was racist, it isn't where I'm from so that seems a touch out of control especially when they call themselves that with pride.

Affirmative action has invented a huge problem with reverse racism and I think it's a well intended, but horrible practice that should just stop because it's unequal and adds to social issues already existing. twocents


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aston
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aston

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Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceAffirmative action has invented a huge problem with reverse racism and I think it's a well intended, but horrible practice that should just stop because it's unequal and adds to social issues already existing. twocents

True in some cases, less so in others. When you look at most people my own age (early twenties) and younger, then in all probability (and at least in theory) they have received the same standard of education and the same opportunities for sport and other extramural stuff. It does not strike me as overly fair to penalise any particular group.

Looking at people of my parents' age on the other hand, there is a gap between those were sidelined because of race and those that were not.

Whether it is politically correct to consider either case a case of racism I do not know.

On the other hand, I will admit that my group of friends is fairly homogenous.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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natasqi


natasqi

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Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceOriginally Posted By: natasqiLike most surveys ask if you identify with being Indigenous Australian because people argue about that all the time...

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Minority status and affirmative action have been driving the issues here, do you have things similar to that in Australia where there are benefits to being a minority or indigenous?


One such example is crayfish licences.. or abalone licences... If you are Indigenous, then you get them for free/ridiculously cheap... If not then they are a few hundred dollars.

Now, seeing as there was no 'test' people were passing themselves off an Indigenous.

So now I think the 'criteria' is something like...
bloodwise you are 1/16th Indigenous.
you IDENTIFY as being Indigenous
and you do things according to culture... or something...
*goes to find link*


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natasqi


natasqi

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Location: Perth

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Posted:Recreational Fishing by Aboriginal Persons

Under Section 6 of the Fish Resources Management Act 1994, an Aboriginal person is not required to hold a recreational fishing licence to the extent that the person takes fish from any waters in accordance with continuing Aboriginal tradition if the fish are taken for the purposes of the person or his or her family and not for a commercial purpose.

There are three criteria which Indigenous organisations will usually require you to satisfy before they will provide you with a proof of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander
heritage letter. These criteria are outlined in the ATSIC Act and are:
1. Being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
2. Identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander
3. Being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formally lived


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

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Posted:Originally Posted By: astonOriginally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceAffirmative action has invented a huge problem with reverse racism and I think it's a well intended, but horrible practice that should just stop because it's unequal and adds to social issues already existing. twocents

True in some cases, less so in others. When you look at most people my own age (early twenties) and younger, then in all probability (and at least in theory) they have received the same standard of education and the same opportunities for sport and other extramural stuff. It does not strike me as overly fair to penalise any particular group.

Looking at people of my parents' age on the other hand, there is a gap between those were sidelined because of race and those that were not.

Whether it is politically correct to consider either case a case of racism I do not know.

On the other hand, I will admit that my group of friends is fairly homogenous.

I don't think it's fair when there are employment quotas like affirmative action enforces in the USA. Imagine if you're Caucasian/white and you are very qualified for a job and have the highest credentials of all the interviewers, but you are not selected for that job and someone under qualified or just average is selected because there are penalties for businesses not filling their minority quota. It's created a racial discrimination against Caucasians and the blow back has increased tension from what I've witnessed, many people close to me have had a bad taste in their mouths and newly found resentment from the effects of these practices on them.

I'm a minority and I think it's an unfair practice and have seen it create racial tension in people who didn't previously have any racial bias. I think the best man for the job should get it and not be blocked out because of a PC diversity quota of lesser qualified applicants. It also seems like it makes minorities more complacent because they know someone needs a "insert ethnicity here" on the roster from many I have spoken to in general.

Perhaps your affirmative action doesn't go to the levels of quotas for employment rosters and financial aid/scholarships like here?

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1258995182)


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"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

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Fire_Moose
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Fire_Moose

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Posted:Well isn't giving special perks to "minorities" racist in and of itself?

and what about aliens? when/if they come and expose themselves (chuckle) are we going to pretend we are not racist (speciest?) because they are smarter and could destroy us easily and we are jealous? What if the universe is BASED on rasism and it's all a game of which race can conquer everything?


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

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Posted:Poje, I say yes it is and have taken a lot of heat for it. I just can't lie to myself or to others about it even though I could benefit if I wanted to. I think it's counterproductive to advancement of any culture to keep old wounds open for the sake of having something to heal while new wounds are created in the process.

It's just not right IMO and harmful, I was just curious if Affirmative Action has gone to the extremes internationally as it has here in at home.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

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Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceOriginally Posted By: astonOriginally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceAffirmative action has invented a huge problem with reverse racism and I think it's a well intended, but horrible practice that should just stop because it's unequal and adds to social issues already existing. twocents

True in some cases, less so in others. When you look at most people my own age (early twenties) and younger, then in all probability (and at least in theory) they have received the same standard of education and the same opportunities for sport and other extramural stuff. It does not strike me as overly fair to penalise any particular group.

Looking at people of my parents' age on the other hand, there is a gap between those were sidelined because of race and those that were not.

Whether it is politically correct to consider either case a case of racism I do not know.

On the other hand, I will admit that my group of friends is fairly homogenous.

I don't think it's fair when there are employment quotas like affirmative action enforces in the USA. Imagine if you're Caucasian/white and you are very qualified for a job and have the highest credentials of all the interviewers, but you are not selected for that job and someone under qualified or just average is selected because there are penalties for businesses not filling their minority quota. It's created a racial discrimination against Caucasians and the blow back has increased tension from what I've witnessed, many people close to me have had a bad taste in their mouths and newly found resentment from the effects of these practices on them.

I'm a minority and I think it's an unfair practice and have seen it create racial tension in people who didn't previously have any racial bias. I think the best man for the job should get it and not be blocked out because of a PC diversity quota of lesser qualified applicants. It also seems like it makes minorities more complacent because they know someone needs a "insert ethnicity here" on the roster from many I have spoken to in general.

Perhaps your affirmative action doesn't go to the levels of quotas for employment rosters and financial aid/scholarships like here?

No, they do. Or at least I think they do. I am just saying that I feel that in some cases it *may* be justified, in my own I do not.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

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Posted:do people think that equal rights for women are just another product of 'political correctness'?

perhaps the whole giving women the vote was just another product of 'political correctness'..


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Zephyre Phoenix


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Posted:What do you mean? Like, by political correctness? I mean, the main reason they did it was enough women knew that it was wrong that they managed to convince others that it was wrong. And the fact that women had no right to vote/had less rights was wrong and the protestors made it politically correct by convincing the majority that they were right. But i think I might be still missing something in your question. haha sorry, a little tired.

Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!

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Pyrolific
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Posted:I think 'political correctness' gets a bad rap...lots of good stuff has come from the kind of thinking that is behind most 'political correctness'. If you look at the 'leaders' in our society who make 'anti-political correctness' part of their platform you will find the vast majority are racist, sexist and just fascist in general. You have to wonder if people would be happy to walk about espousing opinions supporting 'anti-political correctness' if they realised they are aligning themselves with the likes of Pauline Hanson.

:wooo I wonder how long it will be before I get howled down by the generalisation monitors:


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Zephyre Phoenix


Zephyre Phoenix

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Posted:Haha i see what you mean. Tho, just to add a little conflict, political correctness can be overused and corruped by people. Like some things politically correct are completely justified in being that way and have some terrible meanings and very much so offend some people. (such as the use of the N word although its meaning is being dulled with time) But also, people can use political correctness in a confining and restricting way as well to the point that some people masquerading under the guise of "political correctness" Give actual political correctness a bad wrap and people that use it annoying ass holes. But what constitutes as politically correct and when does it cross that line into annoying and unneccessarily restricting? I mean, some people just need to suck it up and move on with life instead of getting offended by every little thing that comes out of some persons mouth. Such as the use of the words "black" and "White" to describe a person. I mean, its a descriptive word, getting accross the general point of what someones trying to say. Then political correctness also goes into action and what is and is not politically correct to do and the issues that accompany that, which me even trying to go into that now would end up in a pile of jumbled nonsense.

Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!

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Zephyre Phoenix


Zephyre Phoenix

Familiar stranger giving out popcorn. (formerly Ascilith)
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Posted:Though I do aggree, "anti-political correctness" is kind of stupid.

Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

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Posted:Originally Posted By: pojeWell isn't giving special perks to "minorities" racist in and of itself?

Yes it totally is and I think it's unfortunate that so many people don't see that.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Pyrolific
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Posted:^^^ given its racism that creates the situation in which politically correct people give these special perks its kinda difficult to label the solution as also racist.

By that thinking it would be racist to set up a taskforce to deal with the racist attacks on Indian students in Australia.

Or sexist to set up a women's shelter etc etc


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Ringshadow
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Ringshadow

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Posted:Recently "sexual orientation" was added to some law about discrimination in the US of A and there were a lot of people that claimed that it was "special treatment" to insist that you couldn't bar someone from whatever for their taste in partners. I never quite figured that out.

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natasqi


natasqi

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Posted:I dont know about employment, but there are definitely lots of scholarships and services that they can access that other people can't.

I can definietly see the two sides for it.

On one hand, two Indigenous students got into Medicine when there were other students who performed better in exams/interview/aptitude test...

But Medicine has lots of different quotas. They have an Indigenous student quota (well, it's not really a quota but a if you want to do Medicine, we will try our hardest to get you in), they have a rural quota, an international student quota, a full fee paying quota, a mature age quota, etc etc.

So, some students are studying medicine because they are 'bonded' i.e. when they graduate they HAVE to spend 6 years working in rural areas. They get no scholarship for this (there are other rural scholarships but thats different).
These people will pass the requirements to get into Medicine (above 96 TER etc) but wouldnt have been offered a place in the top 200 or whatever. The uni rings the next people on the list and says "We will let you study Med but only if you go rural for 6 years"
(Now I have a whole heap of problems with this because they're asking 16/17 yr olds to make decisions that will impact their entire lives and dangling Medicine, this thing the student has aspired for in front of them..)
And they'll keep calling down the list until they find 20 or so studnts who say yes... So these students got in above those higher up the list because they said "yes, I will slave myself to your needs"
I see this kinda like the Indigenous quota... they wouldn't let in anyone who will have massive problems in medicine... If you're simply not smart enough, you're not smart enough...
I think the Indigenous quota for Medicine is more about growing more doctors who will want to work with Indigenous people than about PCness....
It's all about filing Australias needs for rural doctors and Indigenous doctors rather than "theyve historically been unpriveliged so lets help them out"

My partner however tutors Indigenous kids in high school and the governement pays for it completely.

Oh and another scheme which we researched in Med is called a SRA - Shared Responsibility Agreement... This comes from the fact that Australia has tried the heavy hand approach and it didn't work, we tried the self-determination approach and it didn't work so now we're trying a combined thing.
SRAs are basically agreements between an Indigenous community and the government with promises from both sides.

Now some are kinda extreme like "if the Indigenous people will send their kids to school every day and clean their ears etc, then they get a pool."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626072/
(Im talking about the Mulan community agreement)

Now most people said "WOAH - they wash their faces, take the rubbish out and they get a pool? (in this case it was fuel bowsers) I do that already!! The government should pay for MY pool"

Which is a very valid point. The Indigenous side to some of the first agreements was very 'slack' in that they were things that you'd expect everyone to do anyway...

But Australia has been trying to work on Indigenous health for AGES and most things haven't worked...

If spending $200,000 on fuel bosers/ a pool/ whatever the community wants will reduce ear infections/Sexualy transmitted disease/whatever then is it worth it?


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