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Forums > Social Discussion > US educational "brainwash"

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:President Obama adresses students in nationwide speech


"The Cato Institute, a public-policy research foundation, issued a press release entitled "Hey Obama, Leave Those Kids Alone," criticizing the "troubling buzzwords" in the lesson plans:"

Originally Posted By: Cato Institute"It's one thing for a president to encourage all kids to work hard and stay in school that's a reasonable use of the bully pulpit. It's another thing entirely, however, to have the U.S. Department of Education send detailed instructions to public schools nationwide on how to glorify the president and the presidency, and push them to drive social change."

The US "indoctrinating" students? "Glorifying the president and the presidency"? whistle

weavesmiley peace angel what's "news" about this? help footinmouth

wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Quote:I feel quite misunderstood, but that's in the nature of an online discussion... and I'm getting quite used to it.

no, that used to happen a few years ago when people didn't take the time to read your posts properly, this time you're simply being trolled.

Quote:I'm not condemning the US as a whole, neither its citizens. There are some major flaws in the system and I'm putting my finger where it seems to hurt most

Yes, we've covered this ground before in the "What do you think of Americans" thread IIRC

Brainwashing ? You want brainwashing ? I'll give you some brainwashing, the media is way better at this than the government.

Warning!!!! Chuck Norris and Faux News content.



EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTom
I'm not condemning the US as a whole, neither its citizens. There are some major flaws in the system and I'm putting my finger where it seems to hurt most. I have no problems in doing that with my own country...

Germany by far is not perfect, neither is the EU. Maybe it's that they don't stick their heads out to the same extent. Maybe it's because Europe has learned a few lessons in its extremely bloody history... putting the world at the edge quite e few times.

If the US aims to police other countries, it should live up to their own principles of democracy and freedom FIRST. As you lead best by example, no?

I can't think of any instant where that is not the right way to be. If people truly loved and respected their country I would expect them to follow through with the integrity of leading by example, being mature enough to point out flaws and cooperate to fix them, find a more lucrative, productive way of running things and never forgetting history because it almost always will be repeated. I say your view is more noble and correct than the terrible nationalistic misconceptions passing off for patriotism these days. I'd be so bold to say it's fueling a domestic battle bordering on sociological terrorism.

It's out of peace, civility, and common sense that I don't like the system here and considering the impact we make on others as well I'd feel like a horrible human being if I roamed with the mindless huddled masses who question nothing and take part in uninformed compliance and condoning of our governments actions because it's "loving your country and being patriotic" or whatever lame validation and fulfillment notion they wish to indulge in). shrug

Quote:Let me ask you a question: how often would you usually have to sing the national anthem in an ordinary year at school (starting from elementary to University)?

Let me tell you one thing: to my knowledge in Germany they wouldn't have to sing it even once.

shrug

Well times have changed and I graduated in 1998, but the actual National Anthem was only taught and sung in my history class around 2nd grade in elementary school. It was never a formality after that (the song is normally reserved for sporting events I don't intend and fireworks displays where it's just an instrumental going on during the display on the 4th of July. I never had to do it for any events at college, but I don't go to games where I'd expect that to be the only place it would be done.

Education is on a state by state basis so other kids might have had to who lived in other states, but after going to private school from middle school through high school I didn't have to pledge allegiance to the flag there although the public schools would all start their day with that in the morning announcements.

Hope that gives some perspective, in many cases going to a different state is like traveling to a different country because of their differences with policies and laws.

Quote:Maybe I shall make a list of things that I love about the US... just to show that I'm hatred is none of my motifs... At some stage I even considered migrating, I got married in Cayucos, CA... guys there is a big difference between "hate" and "criticism"... I hope your (loving) relationships do reflect that fact. It's more like Bert Brecht put it: if the boat leans to the far right - naturally I lean more to the left.... wink

Sounds good, I love how we're a big melting pot of cultures and civilizations, pending you know where to go! peace wink

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1258214271)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice[/quote]
that we are a Republic.

You realise that a country can be a republic as well as a democracy? They are not mutually exclusive as you are implying. The CIA uses both words and I have a feeling that they'd know wink

Quote:
I'd suggest taking a US Government course to really know all the ins and outs because both of these explanations of the election procedures here are very brief and leaving out much detailed information.


Taking a course in everything that someone wishes to know more information about is ridiculous. For the purposes of not only this thread, but the reasons the ABC and the BBC wrote their pages, the links are appropriate. Or do you dislike them because they were written by non-USians?

Quote:Just trying to clear up some misinformation.
And continuing to live up to your "huh factor" title.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: Rouge Dragon

You realise that a country can be a republic as well as a democracy? They are not mutually exclusive as you are implying. The CIA uses both words and I have a feeling that they'd know wink

Taking a course in everything that someone wishes to know more information about is ridiculous. For the purposes of not only this thread, but the reasons the ABC and the BBC wrote their pages, the links are appropriate. Or do you dislike them because they were written by non-USians?



Hmmm, that all depends on the contextual use of those words and in which grammatical tense. The CIA used democracy as an adjective in the form of a non-absolute and republic as a noun in that tense which was fine. Please don't be so ridiculous to try pulling the wool over my eyes on this one considering that's a cheap attempt at gaining technicality forfeit. Don't tell me what I'm implying because you're wrong about your interpretation, I'm implying it's not as simple as it seems, nothing more or less. You may think you're something else and others may be fooled by your half witted responses, but you're out of your league now, sorry.

I'll tell you what, we don't think the same way because you oversimplify everything so we'll never see eye to eye on philosophically complex matters. Not everything can be hodge-podge blended together and not get confused or have the essence taken out of context. Not everything that is seemingly compatible on a shallow, superficial level is conducive when tested against the fundamentals of logic and reason (which is where I can discount and dismantle many arguments very quickly, I do understand the complicated nature of many topics and stray from the primitive methodology of tweaking inherently flawed concepts in hopes of innovating newer, more lucrative ideas as I hate counter productive wastes of time)

Here in the states all people with a high school diploma are required to pass US Government and American History at a minimum so if I think that the lack of data from international sources makes them too brief for a full understanding of context than yes, I think further exploration is required to gain a full understanding of how our government works before coming out of the gates with a sloppy, irrelevant argument which from an outsider sounds arrogant and atrocious. To fix and build things starts with understanding, deep examination, and cutting your losses so if you aren't willing to go there I think you should shut your hole. I'm not going to say a thing about your country without being well informed, it's called respect and your tossing of concepts is only making the communication barrier greater. You aren't helping anyone out by doing that. There is nothing wrong with taking classes to truly understand something and be a more educated, productive member of society. I think your statement about that is ignorant as well, I have no problem with your sources other than the fact that they aren't enough to back your statements and they are not from reference materials or being used in the right context. (you can't just "google" your way through life and expect to be credible wink )

Quote:And continuing to live up to your "huh factor" title.
I'm only the "huh?" factor in a negative spin to pretentious, psuedointellectual naive souls like yourself. Get some more education, life experience, and common sense then we'll be closer to the same wavelength. You sound like a young, over privileged, semi-worldly person who has gained the majority of their knowledge vicariously through non-rigorous academics and the internet IMHO. Get over yourself, act more mature, and think a little deeper and harder, but do it for yourself and your own benefit or it's merely a waste of effort. I'm losing my patience with you to be completely honest because you don't know when to quit and you won't stop being so sophomoric with me, what's your problem? twocents

*apologizes for going off topic there at the end*

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1258239768)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Yet again, you have made assumptions about me based on nothing more than your need to assert your superiority.

I tried to help people out by providing simple and clear information that was written specifically for the context in which I am providing it.

However feel free to assume that I'm an vicariously-living, immature, uneducated, divorced, mother. It just makes life more interesting for me and other members who know the truth about me.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: Rouge DragonYet again, you have made assumptions about me based on nothing more than your need to assert your superiority.

I tried to help people out by providing simple and clear information that was written specifically for the context in which I am providing it.

However feel free to assume that I'm an vicariously-living, immature, uneducated, divorced, mother. It just makes life more interesting for me and other members who know the truth about me.

I'm sick of your games and you got an apology for the divorced mother thing and you went running your mouth on other threads and then tried to to start another battle with me here over nothing because you won't drop the past regardless of how irrelevant it is. Just like your random, poorly executed child support argument that was over nothing because poor little Rougie needs to feel loved and important so she needs to have an off topic outburst to rally behind weather or not she can back her argument. There's a time to let stuff go, I think you invent your own problems personally. Why drag that to every thread like you insist on doing?

Of course I looked up your stats trying to figure out what your problem is but it's a good thing I don't think it's because you're an Aussie, I think it's just your personality combined with being young and lacking cognitive reasoning ability since that part of your brain won't finish developing for a few years anyway if you're only 23. You have been gunning for me since day one and you want to play the victim which takes a lot of nerve. You are the one with the problem and I made no assumption about you this time, I just told you how your behavior appears especially the immaturity and lack of education because you like picking fights for no reason that you can't even win.

You can be passive aggressive and manipulative all you want, I know the game you're trying to play and it's a waste of time. Leave me alone from now on if you can't read my posts properly and NOT ask redundant questions I've already answered because I'm quite articulate making statements. I think you're somewhat illiterate or have a problem getting the right context in a post because of how many questions you asked me that were already answered in prior posts in the quotes you included, that or you just like to fight perhaps?

If you want peace you can stop acting the way that you do and prove through your actions that what I think of you is wrong. If a person looks stupid and acts stupid, I'm going to assume they're stupid. Until you behave in a way that proves other wise, you did it to yourself and can leave me out of it thanks.

All you do is act like a censored and you can go mad2

It's that simple, nothing more and nothing less. As far as I'm concerned you're the instigator and insist on fanning the flames, you're just a big condescending joke and anyone who doesn't find you insulting is very deserving of your companionship.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Ok Rouge and Epitome, - you've each had a chance to say your piece, can you please let it be. I've read this thread and can see both perspectives on this.

Also, can you both please refrain from person attacks. If you feel the need, please use the notify moderator button.

Cheers,

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Thanks Pyrolific and I'm really sorry, that last post was intended to be the final one in my dialogue with her and I'll be avoiding any future recurrences as well. I'm more than happy to let it be and sorry for doing everything I could to get her to back off, I'll try the mod option next time.

peace

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1258387451)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Likewise weavesmiley

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


natasqi
natasqi

addict
Location: Perth
Member Since: 4th Jul 2007
Total posts: 489
Posted:For the sake of keeping good clean argument/debate going I have three questions...

One is about the democracy thing. Is it possible to be democratic and not a democracy? I understand that America is a republic and has a complicated voting system, but why, if the people are voting and the results of the voting contribute to the leader in the end, does this not make a democracy?
America seems to think it's a democracy...
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/democ/
br>http://www.gpoaccess.gov/coredocs.html


Also - can I get a source for how 23 yr old brains haven't developed cognitive reasoning ability? Maybe I can use it as an excuse for not handing in my ethics essays...

And third... maybe this is an discussion for a new topic... How do we decide what words to use anymore in the PC world? I'm talking about black, coloured, retard etc etc.
In Medicine, I was learning about skulls and learnt it as Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid +/- Australoid.
Later I used the term Mongooid and was severly told off because you're not allow to use the term Mongoloid because it has non-PC connitations for Downs syndrome...
But these terms are still helpful in Forensic Anthropolgy...

Actually I will go make a new topic for this... Come find it if you're interested!



Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:number 1. Democracy is not a black and white state of political being, just as communism never really attained a form that represented the ideal of the movement, neither has democracy attained a 'perfect' solution.

number 2. I feel is best left to dye a quiet death, no need to keep bringing that subject up please...

number 3. Again, PC is not a black and white set of rules, it is a complex mix of changing political values, perception and language. Say what you want to say, and when it offends a PC policeman (sorry policeperson) decide if you wish to respect their view or continue to use the language that 'offended' them.

number 4. hmm, forgot to look for the new topic, maybe a link please? smile

EDITED_BY: Charles (1258442495)


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natasqi
natasqi

addict
Location: Perth
Member Since: 4th Jul 2007
Total posts: 489
Posted:Linking.. linking...
Politically correct terms thread

EDITED_BY: natasqi (1258447547)



natasqi
natasqi

addict
Location: Perth
Member Since: 4th Jul 2007
Total posts: 489
Posted:I find this very helpful on the subject....


Non-Https Image Link



Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:XKCD is God.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: natasqiIs it possible to be democratic and not a democracy?

Yes. Here are the American Heritage Dictionary definitions of both, you'll clearly see you don't have to be a democracy to be democratic. You'll also see that the sociological term Democracy is not the same as the Governmental term as well.

democratic (dm-krtk)
adj.
1. Of, characterized by, or advocating democracy: democratic government; a democratic union.
2. Of or for the people in general; popular: a democratic movement; democratic art forms.
3. Believing in or practicing social equality: "a proper democratic scorn for bloated dukes and lords" (George du Maurier).
4. Democratic Of, relating to, or characteristic of the Democratic Party.

democracy (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. democracies
1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

yes

Originally Posted By: Charlesnumber 1. Democracy is not a black and white state of political being, just as communism never really attained a form that represented the ideal of the movement, neither has democracy attained a 'perfect' solution.
ditto
Beautifully stated and very factual, neither have fully manifested in history thus far. Thanks for adding that perspective.

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1258561489)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:The definition for a noun and an adjective will always be slightly different.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Wow, gee that and they're two separate words with their own definitions! Seriously, was that needed? rolleyes

http://www.grammarbook.com/english_rules.asp
br>
^^^
Awesome site and book, check it out.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


natasqi
natasqi

addict
Location: Perth
Member Since: 4th Jul 2007
Total posts: 489
Posted:So America is democratic because they advocate democracy?

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to try to bring democracy to other countries then?



EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Yes it is and that is why my government disgusts me on a frequent basis.
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1258825215)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)


Page: 123

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