Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > One move lessons vs concept tutorials?
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Nothing but circles and smiles...
118 posts
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Nothing but circles and smiles...
118 posts
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Posted:
Ok, so I couldn't find any other topics asking this question so I hope its safe to post, If it is an existing thread let me know.
Do you prefer one move lessons or concept based tutorials? which would you like to see more of? what concepts would you like to see? what moves would you like broken down?
I will be remaking alot of my older videos very soon and adding many new ones, and would really like to know where every stands, or if i should just make both kinds of videos for each topic.
For example, a concept video would deal with all things isolated or what makes a movement a weave, where as a one move lesson would break down an isolated buzzsaw, or a three beat weave.
Ok, so I couldn't find any other topics asking this question so I hope its safe to post, If it is an existing thread let me know.
Do you prefer one move lessons or concept based tutorials? which would you like to see more of? what concepts would you like to see? what moves would you like broken down?
I will be remaking alot of my older videos very soon and adding many new ones, and would really like to know where every stands, or if i should just make both kinds of videos for each topic.
For example, a concept video would deal with all things isolated or what makes a movement a weave, where as a one move lesson would break down an isolated buzzsaw, or a three beat weave.
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
There are a couple dealing with how people teach, but they tend to be spread out quite widely.
I try to teach concepts, or at least put any moves I do teach into a wider framework. That is the goal at least. Most people I have taught are not really interested in learning like that though.
I think that it gets more and more useful as you yourself learn more and more. Individual moves of things that I am learning are much more a variation on a much bigger whole in most cases. This means that I find the concept more helpful than the one permutation.
I am not sure if this is a function of what I am trying to learn or any particular preference though.
There are a couple dealing with how people teach, but they tend to be spread out quite widely.
I try to teach concepts, or at least put any moves I do teach into a wider framework. That is the goal at least. Most people I have taught are not really interested in learning like that though.
I think that it gets more and more useful as you yourself learn more and more. Individual moves of things that I am learning are much more a variation on a much bigger whole in most cases. This means that I find the concept more helpful than the one permutation.
I am not sure if this is a function of what I am trying to learn or any particular preference though.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
I think you need to have a bit of both. A bit of theory makes learning easier (at least for me), but until you have a basic vocabulary of movements you have no grounded way to start discussing common elements, families of moves, and how where you are now relates to where you're going. So I think there's not a whole lot of need for beginners' moves (whatever those happen to be), but for anything beyond that I think it's important to start discussing theory.
As for specifics I'm interested in... I don't know
I'd watch pretty much any theory video at this point, though I'm not so much interested in things like general properties of isolations or weaves per se, so much as I am in how they relate to other moves and what that means for transitions, combos, etc. But that's mostly because I'm bored with my stylistic range and would like ideas on how to do as much as possible with that I know.
Hopefully this has counted as a useful answer...
I think you need to have a bit of both. A bit of theory makes learning easier (at least for me), but until you have a basic vocabulary of movements you have no grounded way to start discussing common elements, families of moves, and how where you are now relates to where you're going. So I think there's not a whole lot of need for beginners' moves (whatever those happen to be), but for anything beyond that I think it's important to start discussing theory.
As for specifics I'm interested in... I don't know
I'd watch pretty much any theory video at this point, though I'm not so much interested in things like general properties of isolations or weaves per se, so much as I am in how they relate to other moves and what that means for transitions, combos, etc. But that's mostly because I'm bored with my stylistic range and would like ideas on how to do as much as possible with that I know.Hopefully this has counted as a useful answer...
p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
My personal opinion is do both, I'm editing a series of tutorials about floats at the moment, I made a video explaining the 4 different floats (upwards, downwards, to the left, to the right) and then a few videos showing variations.
The problem with just making concept videos is that it makes it harder for people to see applications of these concepts, you should show a few basic variations and let people work from there.
My personal opinion is do both, I'm editing a series of tutorials about floats at the moment, I made a video explaining the 4 different floats (upwards, downwards, to the left, to the right) and then a few videos showing variations.
The problem with just making concept videos is that it makes it harder for people to see applications of these concepts, you should show a few basic variations and let people work from there.
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Well, I usually attempt to do both at once... Essentially addressing a concept through teaching a specific move.
As to what I'd like to see done, I'd like to see you play to your strengths. What are you a master of?
I'd say I'm pretty handy with stalls, plane changes and line isolations, so thats what I'd target.
Well, I usually attempt to do both at once... Essentially addressing a concept through teaching a specific move.
As to what I'd like to see done, I'd like to see you play to your strengths. What are you a master of?
I'd say I'm pretty handy with stalls, plane changes and line isolations, so thats what I'd target.
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonWell, I usually attempt to do both at once... Essentially addressing a concept through teaching a specific move.
As to what I'd like to see done, I'd like to see you play to your strengths. What are you a master of?
I'd say I'm pretty handy with stalls, plane changes and line isolations, so thats what I'd target.
MNS hit's it right on the head... repeatedly... damned wack-a-moles
Originally Posted By: Sister Eleven...A bit of theory makes learning easier (at least for me), but until you have a basic vocabulary of movements you have no grounded way to start discussing common elements, families of moves, and how where you are now relates to where you're going...
...I'm not so much interested in things like general properties of isolations or weaves per se, so much as I am in how they relate to other moves and what that means for transitions, combos, etc...
Theory makes learning easier and easier to integrate into cohesive understanding. Of course you need a vocabulary of movement to start too. As far as what movement: exercises that clean up fundamental control principles, ala scales of poi, that plugs in with theory well... but that can get boring for some. "Tricks" are more exiting for some. I think a balance of both is prudent.
May I point out that certain general properties of isolations, weave, etc, whatever, ARE going to open your understanding of how they relate to other moves and what that means for transitions...
Originally Posted By: _Poiboy_ ...4 different floats (upwards, downwards, to the left, to the right) and then a few videos showing variations.
The problem with just making concept videos is that it makes it harder for people to see applications of these concepts, you should show a few basic variations and let people work from there.
Errr, OHH I get it you are focusing on vertical floats: Up:left, Up:right, Down:left, Down:right? Any plans for Horizontal or diagonal floats yet?
I think it is good to balance concept with applied moves that people can learn.
Another type of Tut, would be the very "trick specific" magic bullet approach. Clearly define the "magic bullet" tips for how to get your body doing the move very quickly. This has some use, but they may not understand what they are doing even though they can do it. This is the proverbial giving a man a fish... but giving it to him very effectively.
Teaching a man to fish is more about a series of concept tuts with examples that reveals underlying principles and gives a framework to discover the possibilities from.
Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonWell, I usually attempt to do both at once... Essentially addressing a concept through teaching a specific move.
As to what I'd like to see done, I'd like to see you play to your strengths. What are you a master of?
I'd say I'm pretty handy with stalls, plane changes and line isolations, so thats what I'd target.
MNS hit's it right on the head... repeatedly... damned wack-a-moles
Originally Posted By: Sister Eleven...A bit of theory makes learning easier (at least for me), but until you have a basic vocabulary of movements you have no grounded way to start discussing common elements, families of moves, and how where you are now relates to where you're going...
...I'm not so much interested in things like general properties of isolations or weaves per se, so much as I am in how they relate to other moves and what that means for transitions, combos, etc...
Theory makes learning easier and easier to integrate into cohesive understanding. Of course you need a vocabulary of movement to start too. As far as what movement: exercises that clean up fundamental control principles, ala scales of poi, that plugs in with theory well... but that can get boring for some. "Tricks" are more exiting for some. I think a balance of both is prudent.
May I point out that certain general properties of isolations, weave, etc, whatever, ARE going to open your understanding of how they relate to other moves and what that means for transitions...
Originally Posted By: _Poiboy_ ...4 different floats (upwards, downwards, to the left, to the right) and then a few videos showing variations.
The problem with just making concept videos is that it makes it harder for people to see applications of these concepts, you should show a few basic variations and let people work from there.
Errr, OHH I get it you are focusing on vertical floats: Up:left, Up:right, Down:left, Down:right? Any plans for Horizontal or diagonal floats yet?
I think it is good to balance concept with applied moves that people can learn.
Another type of Tut, would be the very "trick specific" magic bullet approach. Clearly define the "magic bullet" tips for how to get your body doing the move very quickly. This has some use, but they may not understand what they are doing even though they can do it. This is the proverbial giving a man a fish... but giving it to him very effectively.
Teaching a man to fish is more about a series of concept tuts with examples that reveals underlying principles and gives a framework to discover the possibilities from.
+Alien Jon
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
Jon, "to the left" and "to the right" are the horizontal floats, I show each of the 4 types of floats in both directions.
I'd have to say a lot of DVDs tend to lose balance, Meg's DVD, for example is simply a lot of (really well explained) one move tutorials, which is great for contact, but I feel they should have at least shown some variations.
Encyclopoidia 2 is very close to being an opposite, it gives you a lot of the concepts and teaches you how to explore, but I really wish they'd have had the room to show a few more variations on each concept.
Jon, "to the left" and "to the right" are the horizontal floats, I show each of the 4 types of floats in both directions.
I'd have to say a lot of DVDs tend to lose balance, Meg's DVD, for example is simply a lot of (really well explained) one move tutorials, which is great for contact, but I feel they should have at least shown some variations.
Encyclopoidia 2 is very close to being an opposite, it gives you a lot of the concepts and teaches you how to explore, but I really wish they'd have had the room to show a few more variations on each concept.
Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop
270 posts
270 posts
Posted:
I had to turn Encyclopoidia 2 off because it was too much information. I'll go back to I when I'm better. It's good though because I'll never get to 'there's nothing to learn'.
I had to turn Encyclopoidia 2 off because it was too much information. I'll go back to I when I'm better. It's good though because I'll never get to 'there's nothing to learn'.
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: _Poiboy_
Encyclopoidia 2 is very close to being an opposite, it gives you a lot of the concepts and teaches you how to explore, but I really wish they'd have had the room to show a few more variations on each concept.
I agree, I wish we had more room on the DVD and more time to put more examples too, but that is the catch with DVD. It is double layer. We would have to have spent even more time making it, and charge more for a double DVD set in order to fit more moves on there, let alone more concepts I would have liked to include, and others that would have been great to flesh out more.
Originally Posted By: LyeI had to turn Encyclopoidia 2 off because it was too much information. I'll go back to I when I'm better. It's good though because I'll never get to 'there's nothing to learn'.
Hopefully the nice thing you'll find about Encyclopoidia 2 is that it has modular chapters so you can keep going back chapters and taking in little bits of it at a time as you progress. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about a particular part here or there!
Originally Posted By: _Poiboy_
Encyclopoidia 2 is very close to being an opposite, it gives you a lot of the concepts and teaches you how to explore, but I really wish they'd have had the room to show a few more variations on each concept.
I agree, I wish we had more room on the DVD and more time to put more examples too, but that is the catch with DVD. It is double layer. We would have to have spent even more time making it, and charge more for a double DVD set in order to fit more moves on there, let alone more concepts I would have liked to include, and others that would have been great to flesh out more.
Originally Posted By: LyeI had to turn Encyclopoidia 2 off because it was too much information. I'll go back to I when I'm better. It's good though because I'll never get to 'there's nothing to learn'.
Hopefully the nice thing you'll find about Encyclopoidia 2 is that it has modular chapters so you can keep going back chapters and taking in little bits of it at a time as you progress. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about a particular part here or there!
+Alien Jon
Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop
270 posts
270 posts
Posted:
Thanks!
Thanks!
member
129 posts
129 posts
Posted:
If any of you have checked out contact staff or poi technique from www.vulcandvds.com it IMHO use a little of both approaches, teaches theory but chooses the best examples (tricks) to show.
I like short little thangs myself. Unless the theory is actually delivered coherent and clearly.
If any of you have checked out contact staff or poi technique from www.vulcandvds.com it IMHO use a little of both approaches, teaches theory but chooses the best examples (tricks) to show.
I like short little thangs myself. Unless the theory is actually delivered coherent and clearly.
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