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VampyricAcid
VampyricAcid

veteran
Location: My House
Member Since: 27th Jun 2005
Total posts: 1286
Posted:Kinda scared about starting this thread cos i have a bad history of starting thread that already exist BUT i have done an extensive search and im pretty sure that this thread is completely new!!

i was just out in the garden having a bit of a spin, and i thought "hmmm i wonder what other people are trying to learn at the moment" and decided it would be agreat insight into the future of poi and where people were heading, and serve as inspiration to people who are a bit stuck. There is the obvious "oooh ive just learnt this" thread stuck at the top, but i thought it'd be good to hear what problems people are having with the moves while they are learning them, and how the over come them so other people can look and discover ways they might not have thought of.

so start your replies with "This Week I Am Mostly Learning....."

This Week I Am Mostly Learning.....3bt btb weaves, reverse5bt weave, and trying to work out 6bt TTN aswell as forward7bt weave. Problems?? loads, but these moves ( wink):
3btbtb weave, i keep hitting myself in the head, but im slowly getting the timing down,
Reverse 5bt, my wrists dont seem to like it, still working on timing, again keep hitting myself in the head ubbrollsmile
6btTTN again, the wrists are complaining, and the timing keeps going off
Forward7bt, i got a few beats the otehr night but i lost it now frown confused


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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Still hasn't actually answered my question as to whether one way is easier to learn with than another. My petal question is part of the cleaning up question, not a separate issue.

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:After playing around with this 4x4 fountain, I'm wondering if there's a way to do an antispin version like you can for the regular fountain. I'm going to have to play around, because this move demands to have a reversed form...

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:The easiest way to do it would be the way you do it without thinking.

There is no real rule for whats easier than anything else in poi... some people find some things easy, others find the same things hard.

Re:4x4 fountains I'd have to double check what it is to tell you if antispin is possible... the answer is most likely "yes" though, it almost always is possible in every way, even if you wanted to try a variation where you did it suspended upside down from the roof by your legs.


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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:I think easiest is just to learn it. After you have the basic shape down you can play with which petals are where.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
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Total posts: 1277
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonThe easiest way to do it would be the way you do it without thinking.
The way I do it without thinking is to not do it. I'm only just learning it, so there's no such thing as a way that seems natural; I have to think about how I'm starting and what's supposed to happen.

Which is why I was hoping to poll more than one person. Maybe there's no rule, but that doesn't mean there aren't general tendencies.

[Edit] You know, nevermind. This is getting frustrating. The question was pretty simple, and I appreciate leaving it up to me whether the information I'm asking for turns out to be useful or not. As it is, all posts replying to my inquiry have been deliberate statements that the poster will not answer my question. Thanks.

EDITED_BY: Sister Eleven (1258655675)
EDIT_REASON: See note.


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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Originally Posted By: Sister Eleven[Edit] You know, nevermind. This is getting frustrating. The question was pretty simple, and I appreciate leaving it up to me whether the information I'm asking for turns out to be useful or not. As it is, all posts replying to my inquiry have been deliberate statements that the poster will not answer my question. Thanks.

But there is no easier way?

I know people who feel more comfortable learning outward butterflies first, and a few more who prefer inward. So I show both and let them choose. I even know a few people who learned a reverse 3bt before a forward (although that was rather odd any way).

When I learned "triquetras", I was just getting an extension with one arm and making an antispin flower with the other. I'm damned if I remember which way it pointed. It probably had about 6 petals anyway, since I was coming straight out of trying to learn that.

We are not trying to avoid giving you the answer. MNS and I have both given you the only answer that there really is. It is not a case of avoiding or trying to hide anything, but just that when learning this, the anti-spin probably is not clean enough to pick a direction that it points anyway.

In terms of general tendencies, no one I know has expressed interest in learning this, so I have not tried to teach it.

As an attempt to answer and stave off the incipient cries of further unhelpfulness, try whichever way your trefoil naturally goes on its own. Mine points upwards if that means anything.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:As a general rule, no such cries are forthcoming by the time I say "nevermind".

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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:RE triquetras:

I found learning opposite direction wallplane flowers/butterfly flowers really helpped, or butterfly flowers with extentions. Can't quite remember, but Nick does a video of them which is real helpful. Also workin on getting your planes straight in wallplane really helps. Playing up against a wall will sort that.

I do mine pointing down at the moment. As for sagging of extention, I think it just takes practice. And the colision issue will be down to planes.

Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Son
You're quite right... its not really a triquatra. Sister Eleven has hit the nail on the head in saying that I put it in quotation marks to indicate that its not literally a triquatra.

I threw it out there becuase I find that piece of terminology quite restrictive insofar that it implies that theres only one way to do it, but you can do any ratio of beats.



Sorry, ignore me, I was being a pedantic cock tongue2

If I were to add in extra petals, would that mean decreasing the speed of the extention, or increasing the speed of the antispin. Or half it, so say you were doing 6 petals, have it as 1 extention to every 3 petals?

EDITED_BY: T-S-A (1258683086)


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:When I first learned the triquatra my brain went like this...

"WHEEEEE!!! I'M DOING IT!!!"

No idea which way the petals were pointed, they were probably moving constantly as I did the movement, it takes time to get the petals to be in the same spot every time so its not really a viable way to learn it to try get the trifoil pointing up or down from the word go.



T-S-A its not really about decreasing the speed of one or increasing the speed of the other, its more about altering the ratio between the beat speeds.

That is to say you could either speed one up or slow one down. The easiest way to do it would be to slow one down a bit and speed the other up a bit, so it kinda evens out.

Once you understand it and can do it, try playing around with speeds.

As to doing 1 extention to every 3 petals... I'm not sure thats possible, you'd have to pass your arms through one another, though in my brain I feel like theres a way to get that to work for one cycle before you have to stop... perhaps with an inversion it could be made continuous, but I'll have to have a play with that later... for now its melting my thinky bits.


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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Yeah I see what you mean about the arms crossing and problems it could cause. Will have to give more petals a go on my break (Yes, I am a loser and take my poi to work with me :P)

"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Expanding on my use of stalls. Previously been using them to break rhythm and reverse direction of both poi, or stalling one to switch to/from opposites. Now I'm playing with plane changes and changing to/from opposites after stalling both poi. Very odd feeling, but fun.

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Been trying to get a pause into the middle of a stall switch and then carry on with it.

Also working on same direction hybrids.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Working on wallplane split time butterfly antispin flowers. The timing is driving me batty, though I know it's just a matter of putting in the time. I can do the split time butterfly motion with my arms, I can do the antispin flowers with one hand, but if I have a flower going and my arms moving they go all wonky. Probably because I'm used to same direction wallplane flowers. Trying to work on the individual movements, and getting the total movement with one hand spinning the flower and the other hand empty.

I should consult my checklist. Feeling like I don't have much to work on lately, but that's not nearly true.


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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: Sister ElevenWorking on wallplane split time butterfly antispin flowers. The timing is driving me batty, though I know it's just a matter of putting in the time. I can do the split time butterfly motion with my arms, I can do the antispin flowers with one hand, but if I have a flower going and my arms moving they go all wonky. Probably because I'm used to same direction wallplane flowers. Trying to work on the individual movements, and getting the total movement with one hand spinning the flower and the other hand empty.

I should consult my checklist. Feeling like I don't have much to work on lately, but that's not nearly true. Best thing i found was to do split time butterlfy, move one hand above and let the top hand kinda fall into the > shape of the poi, come back down to butterfly and do the same with your other hand on top to make the <.

Keep going over that until you have the timing right with each, then do it as 1 once, back to STbutterfly for a few beats then do it again, and build it up from that. =]


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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Originally Posted By: Sister ElevenWorking on wallplane split time butterfly antispin flowers. The timing is driving me batty, though I know it's just a matter of putting in the time. I can do the split time butterfly motion with my arms, I can do the antispin flowers with one hand, but if I have a flower going and my arms moving they go all wonky. Probably because I'm used to same direction wallplane flowers. Trying to work on the individual movements, and getting the total movement with one hand spinning the flower and the other hand empty.

I should consult my checklist. Feeling like I don't have much to work on lately, but that's not nearly true.
I actually figured that out just after being able to do split time butterfly extensions, I did the inspin flower and then about an hour after trying that, it just kind of unwillingly turned into an antispin one. I now have a lot of trouble getting into the inspin one because it just turns into the antispin one... -.-


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted:T-S-A: Can you rephrase that? I'm not sure what the pointy brackets are supposed to represent. I've been making a little progress in this; from the "middle positions" (one hand over the other in split time butterfly) I can make the petal off to the side and return to something roughly like the next "middle position". But my arms still refuse to get the message that no novel motions are involved, so I can't quite make it through a full cycle without pausing.

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Are you talking about a triquetra? Because when I do it, I'm just threading the needle while my arms move in a circle if that helps.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Nope, talking about doing two wallplane four-petal antispin flowers with arms moving in a split-time butterfly pattern. Triquetras I have pretty much licked.

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Derek_Faughn
DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX
Member Since: 27th May 2008
Total posts: 101
Posted:Originally Posted By: Sister ElevenNope, talking about doing two wallplane four-petal antispin flowers with arms moving in a split-time butterfly pattern. Triquetras I have pretty much licked.

Do you know your basic CAP pattern? Cause this might actually help. Because the timing of the anti-spin is the same.
Just a suggestion! smile


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James Dean

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ryan_crownover
stranger

Member Since: 1st Aug 2008
Total posts: 9
Posted:mainly stalls and have been trying to clean up wraps but in about a week my roomates giving me his pro unicyle and im going to attempt basic moves on that aka good and hella bad times

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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: Sister ElevenT-S-A: Can you rephrase that? I'm not sure what the pointy brackets are supposed to represent. I've been making a little progress in this; from the "middle positions" (one hand over the other in split time butterfly) I can make the petal off to the side and return to something roughly like the next "middle position". But my arms still refuse to get the message that no novel motions are involved, so I can't quite make it through a full cycle without pausing.

I don't think of it so much as petals, this diagram is kinda how I learned it.


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Don't know if this is a bit clearer (I don't think it's 100% accurate, but should give you an idea), but without making a video, it's the best I can do smile

Should make a pattern like this (unles I am doing something wrong)


Non-Https Image Link

EDITED_BY: T-S-A (1262771241)


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Teamo
Teamo

Almost again
Location: Finland
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 124
Posted:I just always figured it as a compound circle flower with both poi and arms going split time opposites, thus I approached it like any other flower. First getting used to spinning arms in split/opposites, then just adding the poi. The rest is timing and reducing the amount of petals. But that diagram explains it very well also.

While in the topic of flowers, I made myself a paper sheet diagram with all the possible 64 combinations of arm/poi movement, and I'm practicing on getting those down. I just recently received my Scales Of Poi, and I'm having fun with it smile .

Edit: Seems that my points about the split/opp. flower had been already made before, and I was just too lazy to check the discussion. Sorry.

EDITED_BY: ReVo (1262761957)


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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:holy cow

you guys have a way higher standard on what constitutes beginner moves than I do.

Quote:split time butterfly antispin flowers

far cooler than me working on not smacking the back of my head doing 4 beat windmills.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: ReVoI just always figured it as a compound circle flower with both poi and arms going split time opposites, thus I approached it like any other flower. First getting used to spinning arms in split/opposites, then just adding the poi. The rest is timing and reducing the amount of petals. But that diagram explains it very well also.


I agree, getting arm movements down does help a lot, I found the main issue was with timing, getting the poi heads to meet in the middle not so much the hand movements (for problems with this, I found that when the top poi is vertical just about to come down, not to put motion into it, simply let it fall into place), but for thoes who need help with hand positioning, here is another of my awesome paint pictures to guide you smile


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Originally Posted By: WoodlandAppleholy cow

you guys have a way higher standard on what constitutes beginner moves than I do.

Quote:split time butterfly antispin flowers

far cooler than me working on not smacking the back of my head doing 4 beat windmills.

Don't worry about it dude smile

Enjoy what you are learning now, don't rush it, other things will come in the end, Hendrix wasn't a guitar hero over night wink

Something that helpped with my 4bt windmills was keeping my wrists together at all time, when your hands are behind your head, if use the hand that's at the back to push the other one forward, and when your hands are in front, use the front one to push back. Keep it slow, you will have more control, and it hurts less when you hit yourself.

Remember every time you hit yourself, you are another step closer to getting it. Practicing with a mirror/reflective window also helps LOADS.

Edit: I personally wouldn't consider butterfly flowers beginner, but compared to a lot of the stuff in the advenced section, it seems pretty beginner. Should really be an intermediate section tongue2

EDITED_BY: T-S-A (1262775291)


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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:Originally Posted By: T-S-A
Don't worry about it dude smile

Enjoy what you are learning now, don't rush it, other things will come in the end, Hendrix wasn't a guitar hero over night wink

eerggh, dont say that, Im learning how to play guitar as well! We live in an age where there is a demand for instant results.

Im now pretty happy with the windmills when leading with my right hand, still need work on my left. Funny really concidering Im left handed.

I had a crack at the butterfly flower too and I get stuck at about figure 3.5. I tend to find the harder moves way easier than the easy moves. for eg. I can do a hyperloop no worries when in a wallplane while doing fountains (I think it looks really cool- when you hit the loop dead centre and move it across your body with your palms flat its like they are doing a floating spin inbetween your hands) but I cant for the life of me do one from a 3b weave. And Im only close with a reverse weave coming from the wrong side


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:I changed my mind. I just read the 4 beat windmill topic in the hard section. This thread is definatly beginner in comparison. All that math made my head hurt.

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Well, I know I tend to use this thread, mostly since I do not consider myself advanced. tongue2

But go with whatever you find easier. In general, you want to solidify your basics first.

Also: Mad MSPaint skills by TSA. wink


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Aha. That one I can do. The one I'm trying to learn ends up looking like that, but sort of turned 45 degrees. The hand positions are

1) hand X above hand Y along body's center
2) both hands together off to X side
3) hand Y above X on center line
4) hands both together at Y side
5) repeat

more of a diamond pattern rather than box. Getting better at it lately, but it's still twitchy.


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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: astonWell, I know I tend to use this thread, mostly since I do not consider myself advanced. tongue2

But go with whatever you find easier. In general, you want to solidify your basics first.

Also: Mad MSPaint skills by TSA. wink


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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia
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Total posts: 474
Posted:hey TSA, thanks to your diagrams, I got the butterfly flower!

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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