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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Righty, I know this has been done, but I have searched it and can't find the posts. So if someone could answer my question or point me in the right direction of an existing thread that would be awesome.

Basicly, what the hell is atomic spinning? I have learned an atomic weave from adventures in poi, bur im still not 100% it is im actually doing.

Are atomics spinning on 2 different planes, so atomic weave, is one poi on wall plane and one on wheel plane. Would this be the same if it was 1 in wheel plane and one in floor plane (don't know the correct word for it).

What other stuff can be turned atomic?

And how would I go about doing stuff like this?


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JaredW
SILVER Member since Oct 2009

JaredW

enthusiast
Location: Flying south for the winter.

Total posts: 375
Posted:Nick has an atomic weave tutorial here:



I couldn't even guess at all could be done atomic, but he does say in the video that atomic means you're spinning on opposing planes.


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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:I can't get youtube at work, but I have a feeling that's the same video that's on Adventures in Poi (talking about the atomic weave?).

If so, I have that already, would like a little more in debth explination, and more info on the possibilities that come with it, if that makes sense?

EDITED_BY: T-S-A (1257915111)


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DyamiTK
GOLD Member since Mar 2008

DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Total posts: 159
Posted:My understanding of atomic spin is any time where the poi planes are perpendicular to each other rather then parallel. That includes the two combination you mentioned. Atomic has also been used in a more relaxed sense to mean any planes which are not perfectly straight. By that definition, we're usually spinning slightly atomic.

Not sure what the pattern in the first photo is specifically but it can be done by combining flowers with extensions. Probably with the poi in opposite direction, but not necessarily.

The second photo is Flowtoys magic.


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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:So in theory that would mean you can do, say, a butterfly for example with one in standard wall plane amd the other in floor plane as I have come to know it (spinning horizontaly under your arm). Would that then be considered an atomic butterfly? Or a 4 petal antispun flower with one in wheel plane and the other in wall plane? Atomic antispin flower?

I got me some flow toys, more wondering how to get the effect, it looks like one is making a circle inside the other in different planes, but wouldn't the strings get tangled? Well clearly not, but how tongue2

Edit: the second looks like it could be an atomic windmill or something, clarify for me someone?

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Atomics are planes perpendicular to each other. That means one wheel - one wall, one wall - one floor and one wheel - one floor are all atomic combinations.

Of course, then you can get around to having bent atomics, such that you have an X from the front, as opposed to a cross, but the principle is the same.

I have not really played with them much, so can not give you any advice.

They can also be closely related to plane-bending stuff.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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bjrcboy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2009

journeyman


Total posts: 74
Posted:Hmmm atomics. To me atomics are when you are spinning with your planes perpendicular. In essence if you were spinning a butterfly but one poi in wheel and the other in wall, that WOULD be atomic buuut thats no fun. It gets tricky when you start to "weave" with atomics.

I enjoy atomics mainly because it helped me work on plane control. Whether it would be wall, wheel, floor, ceiling, buzzsaw, ect ect. Another nice effect is from the front for most atomic weaves it looks like a weird butterfly weave but from the side it seems like a normal weave.

I started with the Notcoleman3 weave as I believe its called. Essentially its a three beat weave but. When your on your left instead of your right poi going around to the other side of your body you inswing through your arms. Then repeat on the right side with your left poi. It adds a nice bouncy effect to it.

Honestly, I don't enjoy when people spin atomics that much I just believe it allows one to do more with their poi then someone who doesn't grasp atomics... and/or plane shifting/breaking.


EDITED_BY: bjrcboy (1257956786)


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: T-S-ASo in theory that would mean you can do, say, a butterfly for example with one in standard wall plane amd the other in floor plane as I have come to know it (spinning horizontaly under your arm). Would that then be considered an atomic butterfly? Or a 4 petal antispun flower with one in wheel plane and the other in wall plane? Atomic antispin flower?

I got me some flow toys, more wondering how to get the effect, it looks like one is making a circle inside the other in different planes, but wouldn't the strings get tangled? Well clearly not, but how tongue2

Edit: the second looks like it could be an atomic windmill or something, clarify for me someone?

Excellent, old school stuff, stuff that I actually understand cool

Technically yes, an atomic is where the poi are spinning in perpendicular planes and what you're talking about there would be called a separated atomic. separated as in the hands are not together, like separating a butterfly and calling it a reel for instance.

I'd never thought of throwing antispin or for that matter extensions into an atomic pattern, thanks :)I'll experiment with it this afternoon.

The effect in the flowtoys shot is a simple atomic, done in a same direction pattern BUT they feel like you're spinning a butterfly for some reason. Spin one poi in wall plane, the other in wheel plane then lift the whole thing up above your head, straight up and there you have it. That photo is shot at a "funny" angle, but it's definitely one wheel, the other wall.

I personally don't spin my overhead atomics like that, I spin one wheel and one ceiling plane which means when i do my lifting the whole thing up I'm plane bending my wall plane circle into ceiling plane. It's a bit of a nasty move if it goes wrong with fire as the tangled chains and poi come straight down on top of your head.



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That's the samee orientation as the flowtoys shot, wheel+wall
Firetom, I hope you don't mind.


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Lye


Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop


Total posts: 270
Posted:Awesome.

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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Nice one, cheers guys, pretty much answered my question, so another example so I am totally sure I know what I am talking about, if you were to do a 3 beat fountain, but with 1 poi in the normal wheel/wall plane (however you do your fountains) and one on floor/ceiling plane, like:


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Obviously done better, but it's hard to be accurate with stick men on mspaint tongue2

Would this be considered atomic? Or an atomic 3 beat fountain? Or am I totally out and confusing myself?

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JaredW
SILVER Member since Oct 2009

JaredW

enthusiast
Location: Flying south for the winter.

Total posts: 375
Posted:I can't help with the atomic thing, I'd just hurt myself, but that pic just made me laugh for some reason.
I don't know, maybe I'm too easily entertained.laugh3


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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: Thezack I can't help with the atomic thing, I'd just hurt myself, but that pic just made me laugh for some reason.
I don't know, maybe I'm too easily entertained.laugh3

Probably because sillyness is funny grin


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Well, its atomic, thats for sure... you could have an atomic static spin with one poi 90 degrees displaced from the other poi's plane.

Whether or not its a "fountain" I'm uncertain, isn't that moving a weave around ones body or is it just the path it follows, the weave being the method...


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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonWell, its atomic, thats for sure... you could have an atomic static spin with one poi 90 degrees displaced from the other poi's plane.

Whether or not its a "fountain" I'm uncertain, isn't that moving a weave around ones body or is it just the path it follows, the weave being the method...

Are you talking in general term of fountain? Or what I tried to decipher in that picture?


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Originally Posted By: T-S-A
Would this be considered atomic? Or an atomic 3 beat fountain? Or am I totally out and confusing myself?

I was responding to this... its atomic, Its probably a fountain, depending on its true definition.


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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonOriginally Posted By: T-S-A
Would this be considered atomic? Or an atomic 3 beat fountain? Or am I totally out and confusing myself?

I was responding to this... its atomic, Its probably a fountain, depending on its true definition. Ahhh, I dunno, iI really called it that for the sake of ease and confusion.

A fountian is made of a forwards weave, backwards weave and windmill right? So my theory (although based on absolutley nothing bar my own knowledge), is if you were to do each of the mentioned patterns in atomic then it should (by my understanding) (if it absolutley has to be named) be an atomic 3 beat fountain. But then if you look at buzzsaw fountains, they move in a different way to 3 bt fountain. So I should imagine the "fountain" part of it, is indeed the movement of it around your body?

Does that make sense? I am starting to confuse myself...


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Originally Posted By: T-S-AA fountian is made of a forwards weave, backwards weave and windmill right?

I know that a club fountain is something else, but never really got the distinction between them. In poi terms, yes that is what I understand by fountain.

Any suggestions for starting out with atomics though? Like I said, have never really gotten into them.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Lye


Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop


Total posts: 270
Posted:Hey guys, that first picture isn't atomic right?

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leospoi
SILVER Member since Feb 2008

leospoi

Poi explorer
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 108
Posted:Yes all of it is possible, atomic weaves 3bt,5bt windscrew/corkmill 2bt,4bt, fountains even some utl and crossers stuff.

To start I think it's easier with your left doing wheelplane and your right doing horizontal plane with short poi (so you can spin on top of your arm and keep your head out of harm's way) and clockwise spinning. The horizontal poi will do 2 beats on the bottom and 1 beat on the top and the wheelplane poi will do 2 beats on the right and 1 beat on the left like a normal weave.

Once you get that atomic weave (takes a while to stop the planes from going all over the place) the rest of the patterns and direction permutations should be easier to figure out.


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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere

Total posts: 290
Posted:Concerning fountains:
To my knowledge, the name fountain made it's way into poi terminology from club swinging. The traditional fountain is not in fact forwards weave > reverse weave > windmill. That is a persistant inaccuracy that never seems to die! One way to do it is to do a "180 weave" (turning back and forth between forwards and reverse weave). Then start arcing your hands low from forwards to reverse, and high from reverse to forwards.
This particular move takes 6 rotations of a poi before the cycle completes. I suspect that this is what you mean by a 3-beat fountain, if you are thinking of it as made up of 3-beat weaves. Perhaps a more accurate way to talk about it would be a fountain with 6 beats (of the rotational variety) that uses 1st-degree twists of the wrist.

Concerning Atomics:
Atomic is more of an atribute or configuration than any one move. I take it to mean when the planes each poi stabilize into are at a perpendicular (90) orientation to each other. Some people also make the distinction of box planes when you separate your poi so that the poi heads just miss each other and insinuate the corner of a box. To me it is still all perpendicular spinning, which I usually call atomics.
Some important points to be made: when your poi are atomic you are at the threshold of same and opposite direction. Therefor it is a misnomer to say that your atomics are same-direction or opposite direction.
Your hands and arms may behave like your are doing a chasing or threading move, and they may even twist and untwist as in degrees of twist, but that has to do with the frames your arms create for the atomics, and thus how your arms have to get around each other and avoid being hit by the poi. If you get creative you may often find that you could do a threading/butterfly-like movement were you would normally do a chasing weaving movement. Sometimes Atomic patterns will seem to have aspects of both weave and butterfly movements at the same time.

Concerning Body orientation:

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Talking about Wall plane, side/wheel plane, or horizon/floor plane is also a bit of a misconception.
For me the prime plane orientation factor is gravity. There is a gradient of plane orientations between horizontal and vertical. We know vertical to be vertical because of our poi plane's orientation in line with gravity. We know horizontal to be horizontal because our plane is perpendicular to gravity. Try spinning "vertically" or "horizontally" in micro-gravity (free-fall plane or outer space)... there will be no distinction... and invite me to come along too, cuz that would be sick!
Beyond gravity as prime orienter, you may choose to orient your spin planes with the viewing plane of a supposed audience. In this common situation, you don't change your planes at all from "Wheel" to "wall" you actually change the orientation of your body's anatomical planes to your poi planes! That is what gives the sense of changing from wheel to wall.
Say you are spinning a 4-beat corkscrew standing upright. You then tilt your torso forward 90. Anatomically you are now basically doing a 4-beat windmill, but you still feel gravities effects on the poi in the way you always do in horizontal planes. Now turn your torso around your spin by 90. You are facing off to the side, no longer the floor. If you have maintained the poi pattern, you are now anatomically doing the equivalent of a 4-beat weave (asymmetric) placed "above" your head... but of course the poi-gravity relationship is still horizontal.

My point as it relates to atomics:
You can take an atomic pattern and re-orient yourself to it any number of ways... OR you could stand still and reorient the atomic to you in many ways. By doing so you will find situations where you are part way between a "weave" and a "mill", or "butterfly" or whatever. It isn't so much that the atomic configuration changed, but more that your arms' orientation to it changed.





+Alien Jon

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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: LyeHey guys, that first picture isn't atomic right? I don;'t think so, I wasnt looking propperly tongue2

"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: leospoiYes all of it is possible, atomic weaves 3bt,5bt windscrew/corkmill 2bt,4bt, fountains even some utl and crossers stuff.

To start I think it's easier with your left doing wheelplane and your right doing horizontal plane with short poi (so you can spin on top of your arm and keep your head out of harm's way) and clockwise spinning. The horizontal poi will do 2 beats on the bottom and 1 beat on the top and the wheelplane poi will do 2 beats on the right and 1 beat on the left like a normal weave.

Once you get that atomic weave (takes a while to stop the planes from going all over the place) the rest of the patterns and direction permutations should be easier to figure out. Awesome bit of info, massive thanks Jon grin

Edit: That goes for both posts, pretty much everything I needed to know regarding atomics and the likes. time to get spinning grin

EDITED_BY: T-S-A (1258065512)


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Insignia


Insignia

Pitch Calcifer
Location: Akron, OH

Total posts: 5
Posted:Atomics is awesome. Now my planes are all...shifty grin

http://www.youtube.com/user/Insignia#p/u/7/U_PDJ5bOuBs


I am the storm. I am the wonder.

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Posted:Originally Posted By: AlienJon
...
Concerning Atomics:



Concerning Body orientation:
...In this common situation, you don't change your planes at all from "Wheel" to "wall" you actually change the orientation of your body's anatomical planes to your poi planes!...

My point as it relates to atomics:
You can take an atomic pattern and re-orient yourself to it any number of ways... OR you could stand still and reorient the atomic to you in many ways. By doing so you will find situations where you are part way between a "weave" and a "mill", or "butterfly" or whatever. It isn't so much that the atomic configuration changed, but more that your arms' orientation to it changed.





Before AlienJon wrote this...

I was blown away last night after reading some posts on atomics. I did some work with my wheel and wall plane, moved them around my body equilaterally (using poi instinct-- not trying, just moving), and I discovered some nice shapes.

I did come to the subjective conclusion that only split-time will work with atomics.

i also mind-tripped on the possibilities that could occur from that which AlienJon speaks of:

I found that in the making of two planes comes the making of corners.

These "corners" with changing of planes from their current atomic position allows for an infinite amount of points around your body FROM WHICH to do atomic movements.

Atomics=
Corners= play in layers of spheres around your moving perspective/ body


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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere

Total posts: 290
Posted:Actually, in a way there is more possible from same-time, because you can avoid tangling in a clash state. This is what Arashi called a Crane.

+Alien Jon

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Arashi . . . . where did the master go?!?

To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Wow....

Andy?

wow old wink


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Posted:I will look up Cranes, and this Arashi you speak of. Thank you

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