Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > What tutorials would you like to see Alien Jon put up?

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AlienJon
AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 290
Posted:So, I've been meaning to do this fore a wile, and now the conversation in the thread about contributing to my dead laptop fund has inspired me to get the ball rolling!

Some videos I've been wanting to create:
Some Atomics videos, starting with the fundamentals, theory, and a mental model that helps it make a bit more sense. All presented from multiple angles and with visual aids for the mental model, because well, atomics are tricky like that! There are only a few atomics videos readily available and non seem to elucidate the overall understanding of atomics that much (what am I getting myself into).My approach to the material covered in Rev's Manifesto, which is no longer readily available. I've covered some of it in the Encyclo-Poi-dia 2 DVD, and touch on a small bit of foundation theory in "The Primer @ 1:10"
If anyone wants to discuss how these things should best be presented, or make requests about specifics they would like focused on, please do.

Also, if people have suggestions as to other topics they'd like to see me do videos about feel free to suggest them!



Beyond my own content creation, I've also been planning a "Poi Video Link Collection" project. When you search YouTube, there is so much redundant crap to sift through to find really good poi videos, it can be daunting. I usually get good videos filtered my way socially as it were.

I already have several Youtube playlists, each dedicated to a different inspiring poi artist, as well as a "miscelanious poi videos" playlist. The aim is to provide myself and the community with an easier to browse source for inspiring videos, that is easily copyable into your own version of the playlists. Unfortunately these have gotten a bit out of date.

When I started looking at updating my playlists, there are now a lot more people that I would like to include with their own "inspiring poi artist playlist. Then there are all of the videos of all of these inspiring artists to find and link to. That is a pretty daunting task I've gotten myself into!

I am a single fallible human (or at least appear to be), so I might totally forget certain artists, and skip right over good videos that should be in there.
So what I would like to do is open up for suggestions on:
Artists to includeYour favorite videos from said artistsVideos of artists who don't have enough material to go in a play list but could go in "miscelanious poi videos".more obscure or "rare find" videos of said artists

We can begin to discuss this here, but ultimately I am looking into using Google Forms to make it easier for people both in HoP and outside of it to relay their findings, and have that all nicely organized into a Google spreadsheet so that I can process the info more effectively.

Please omit tutorial videos for this project, unless they are soooo amazingly groundbreaking and well done that you just can't stop yourself... or if the tut also has a lot of inspirational flow or performance footage as well.
I'm trying to avoid mirroring an artist's entire YouTube video lists. So, please limit yourself to videos containing inspirational performance, flow, and/or tech showcase, and that you think are exceptional... at least for the 1st volley of suggestions.

For each video link it would also be very useful to include:
Artist name
Title of youtube video
Whether it is: Favorites/exceptional, "rare find", or average
A comma-separated list of tags that describe the video entry.


+Alien Jon

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:My main thing would be how to implement some of the new techy things, namely cateyes and floaters. Both of these don't look as good by themselves, compared to how they look when combined into other moves (the cateye flower yuta does for example)

Implementation of cateyes:
I've recently been playing around with putting cateyes in flowers, and I've been wondering of what else you can do with them besides hybrids and putting them into flowers.

Implementation of floaters:
Something I'm recently getting into, other than a floater weave and a floater flower I've seen ronan do I'm wondering what else you can do with floaters.


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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Yeah: atomics from square one, cateye and similar move applications.

I would also like to see the Manifesto done in a different way. Well, an interpretation of it at least.

smile


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Spacedub
Spacedub

Bob
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 13th Nov 2008
Total posts: 5
Posted:Hybrids and pendulums tongue2

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Rives
Rives

Nothing but circles and smiles...
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Member Since: 5th Jun 2009
Total posts: 118
Posted:Ive been working with some thing similar to a five beat inverted weave(split time same direction) ever since I saw a clip or you doing one. I may have incorrectly interpreted what this movement really was, but if you have any idea what I mean and have to time to either make a quick vid or explain it I would appreciate it very much.

and any help with plane bending, zero points, and floaters would also be very usefull.

EDITED_BY: Rives (1253701339)


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bjrcboy
journeyman

Member Since: 29th Aug 2009
Total posts: 74
Posted:All kinds of techy theory, there just is not enough of it out there. Personally I'd love to see more poi "theory" over tutorials for moves.

Besides thats... maybe some throws and partner poi interactions!





My girlfriend and I have been trying this lately and it is such a new experience playing with her. I think I just fell in love with poi all over again.

EDITED_BY: bjrcboy (1253859132)


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Tankboy
Resident Demolitions Expert
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Member Since: 10th Jan 2006
Total posts: 103
Posted:Jon, how about a series of videos on unit circle hybrids, each video focusing on a single either poi timing and direction, or hand timing and direction, kind of a comprehensive view

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Noelski
member

Member Since: 23rd Dec 2005
Total posts: 129
Posted:Oh... so no Vulcan Playlist on your youtube page old

....I see how it is spank


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bjrcboy
journeyman

Member Since: 29th Aug 2009
Total posts: 74
Posted:Noel do you still do wendensday night spin jams at the vulcan? We met at the flowtoys studio once... I'm Gerald but I doubt you remember me lol.

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AlienJon
AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 290
Posted:Originally Posted By: NoelskiOh... so no Vulcan Playlist on your youtube page old

....I see how it is spank



footinmouth

LOL, see this is why I need people to remind me as I update the playlists.


+Alien Jon

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stillhuman
stillhuman

stranger
Location: Berkeley, California, USA
Member Since: 9th May 2007
Total posts: 7
Posted:How about introverted moves! more than just the barrel roll. it has been nearly impossible to find videos on such things.

also, chris rovo and insignia are two spinners i really enjoy with playlist potential.

ps. i'm so glad you started this thread!


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Lye
Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop

Member Since: 24th Sep 2009
Total posts: 270
Posted:Please teach how to do the absurd stall hybrid thing that Mel does at 7:55.00 in this video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8y304_mel-tech-poi-me-my-shadow_sport
I want to learn it bad. I would love to see tutorials on like half of this video but that one bothers me.


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Lye
Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop

Member Since: 24th Sep 2009
Total posts: 270
Posted:I even made this to help me see what was going on. It didn't come out too great and it didn't help me much.


Non-Https Image Link


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Bam_Bam
Bam_Bam

Raver X
Location: Fort Worth, Tx. Usa
Member Since: 10th Oct 2009
Total posts: 15
Posted:Wow thats was my frist time to see that! That was awsome and i am surprised at what you can do with poi! Just so you know i am a nub to Poi! smile

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bjrcboy
journeyman

Member Since: 29th Aug 2009
Total posts: 74
Posted:Originally Posted By: LyeI even made this to help me see what was going on. It didn't come out too great and it didn't help me much.

Looks like a double upstall in wallplane. but the stall is staggered, meaning one hand is stalled at the height of the other poi head. From there you do one full antispin hybrid(hand follows poi head, poi spin opposites) another upstall(think yuta antispin flower stalls) So your hands end up in the same position that you started the hybrid at. Switch to same direction, swing over to the otherside, rinse and repeat.

In reality the combo seems simple its just a matter of getting your hands to be able to perform different motions at once. Kind of like rubbing your stomach while you pat your head. (Which I just discovered I can finally do after playing with poi for about a year now haha)

Just for kickers try this... While sitting down lift your right foot off the ground a bit. Now start making clockwise circles. Now as your foot is spinning start drawing the number "6" in the air with your right hand. What happened to your foot? Is it still spinning clockwise? lol

EDITED_BY: bjrcboy (1255621160)


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Lye
Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop

Member Since: 24th Sep 2009
Total posts: 270
Posted:Thanks. The 6 foot thing always gets me. I need to learn antispin hybrids I suppose, which currently seem impossible to me. I'll get on them and then get back to reading your explanation.

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bjrcboy
journeyman

Member Since: 29th Aug 2009
Total posts: 74
Posted:Hmm I say just shorten your poi. spin say your left in buzzsaw forward(up and away from you) Then with your right poi spin reverse then start to do an antispin flower with your right hand. Stand in a mirror and try to get your right hand to follow your left poi

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Derek_Faughn
DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX
Member Since: 27th May 2008
Total posts: 101
Posted:Tips on horizontal stalls.

"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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bjrcboy
journeyman

Member Since: 29th Aug 2009
Total posts: 74
Posted:Originally Posted By: Derek_FaughnTips on horizontal stalls.

Practice Practice Practice! The shorter the poi are the easier it is, start short and work your way up to full length poi. Nothing else really. I've found that when I'm spinning say clockwise and would like to horizontally stall at 3 o'clock. I notice that to do this I imagine the tangent coming off of 12 o'clock and my hand moves to up and to the right at about 45 degrees. As if my hand is almost following the poi. Sorry kind of hard to explain online.

But really practice practice practice. Both hands. Both ways. Thats all poi really is. After you get down each direction of each hand you just throw it all together and make fun patterns =) cool


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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Well, I've posted this all around the website and I'm starting to feel like I'm peddling myself a bit much... but this is my stalls tutorial, Derek,

and I think its quite good. It covers up to horizontal stalls and theres an extra chunk for basic plane changes, though I should likely remake the plane changes video by now...


hug

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AlienJon
AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 290
Posted:Update:
Wow, I've been busy and I'm just now starting to get back to this thread. I cut my time in Switzerland/UK short by a week, because I landed a major last-minute corporate seminar gig in the USA. It went awesome, and now that the dust is settling, Burning dan and I are starting to look at videos to be made.

With the paycheck that is coming from corporate america, I went ahead and got a new laptop.

I'm going to review the suggestions in this post so far, but I'd like to contact the people who so graciously made donations to my laptop fund and give them precedence on the 1st video projects I take on.

This should be fun!


+Alien Jon

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Blue sunshine
Blue sunshine

stranger
Location: Albuqquerque, New Mexico
Member Since: 9th Jul 2009
Total posts: 24
Posted:You're such a beast!! thank you for what you do! Me and my friend were wondering if you could some-how incorporate where and how your body and arm come into play as opposed to the poi just spinning. Just an idea for these neck of the woods. Thanks again!

Trance is the motion-
Check out for events going on all around New Mexico, we have a busy summer ahead of us!
WOOT!~~~

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bjrcboy
journeyman

Member Since: 29th Aug 2009
Total posts: 74
Posted:Originally Posted By: Blue sunshineYou're such a beast!! thank you for what you do! Me and my friend were wondering if you could some-how incorporate where and how your body and arm come into play as opposed to the poi just spinning. Just an idea for these neck of the woods. Thanks again!

Do you mean like having your arms go in opposite directions or opposite direction of the poi? and for body like... throwing the poi from one side to the other while spinning? To make your patterns look more three dimensional?

I think the first would be great and the later might be harder to explain or make a video for. I've found that the later just comes with time once you slowly learn how to control the position of the poi in space. yes


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AllToreUp
AllToreUp

the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away...
Location: Santa Fe/Albuquerque, NM
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 19
Posted:Honestly, I like it without the arms. It leaves a little to the imagination, while opening up ideas for body movement. The same patterns can be done multiple ways usually, and that's really what separates the individual styles of each spinner.

$0.02


I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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AlienJon
AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 290
Posted:Ultimately, I'd like the best of both worlds: A balance of live video and animated visualizations, like we did on the Encyclo-Poi-dia 2.

Seeing a well filmed shot of how someone's body is making a move work can be very helpful sometimes and to certain people. Other times having a simulation that has removed all distracting elements but a representation of the key things to focus on can give a certain clarity that live footage can't. It's about balancing the 2.

So far I have only been showing the planar projection of different geometric poi patterns. Regardless of how you are actually moving the poi around your body through space between multiple parallel planes as boundaries, this is what someone looking at the performance plane sees. The next step is to actually post some 3D stuff, including how the poi is spiraling through space, from multiple camera angles, and camera pans around the 3D form.

As AllToreUp points out, there are multiple ways to execute a geometric pattern. Abstracted from the body, poi is simple to model: each poi is essentially a head vs handle relationship: 2 points of interest (POI, convenient acronym). That is 4 points that have various relationships to pay attentino to. The center of the poi tether is also pretty important, so oooh 6 points. Pretty easy to animate in a 2D plane. For patterns that don't involve plane bending or changing, atomics, box planes, trinity, etc, 3D is just adding oscillations in the depth axis and still isn't that big a deal.

With classic fixed planes Atomics/Boxplanes (fixed 90-degree planes), it' also not that big of a deal. Within a poi's planar orientation it has a local coordinate system. Each poi has a different planar orientation at 90 degrees, so there is a relationship defined in that way between each local reference frame.

The real complexity comes from the human body and its interaction with parts of itself and the poi. That is where it gest crazy! I'm working on a boiled down simplified system for the arms. That is 6 more points: hands, elbows, shoulders. The hands, are redundant with the poi handles unless there is some sort of release toss etc. This accounts for a bunch of stuff including inversions, introversions, really any inswing stuff.

The arms subsystem is also related to the rest of the body, basically head/torso, and legs. This accounts fore inside frames/planes, behind the back, behind the head, body crosses, the world of under the legs framings... all the devisions of space that make poi spinning interesting. The body has its local reference frame too: this includes major dividing planes : Sagittal, Coronal, and Transverse. Most spinning is done with the arms, which are anchored to the shoulders and thus part of a system centered between the shoulders. For this reason, I like to think of the Transverse plane at shoulder height for poi, rather than the belly (center of mass for a body).

All of these sub-systems are related to a global reference frame (coordinate system). It is defined by the direction of gravity and thus the vertical axis, the performance plane, and the secondary performance plane (side on). I suppose defining the ground as the plane which gravity is normal to (perpendicular) is worth something too.

It is the relationship of the poi planes, to the body planes, to the global reference frame that give us a better understanding of how our spinning relates to the world. This is what actually creates the sense of wheel, wall, or floor planes, and how they relate to those around us.

Few, that came out unexpectedly!

Yeah, so Eventually I'd like to have an IK Character rig, that can be part of this system, so I can show a body doing this stuff in some parts of simulations. And mix that with live video!


+Alien Jon

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Lunaki
Lunaki

Poi Goddess
Location: Oklahoma
Member Since: 10th Nov 2009
Total posts: 16
Posted:I haven't seen a good video for 7 beat weave on Youtube yet. I'm still trying to figure it out.

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