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MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
Lord Stern has been quoted as saying we all need to go vegetarian to save the planet
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6891362.ece

some interesting points raised, as well as the fact that on the radio they were saying the average family dog produces the same carbon footprint as a small car - 0.8 metric tonnes per year due to the high meat and cereal diet dogs have.

Is this really a viable option? meat (essentially fish) is the main reason we have such highly developed brains, should we stop to save the planet or are there much better ways to go?

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


WoodlandAppleBRONZE Member
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
Originally Posted By: Pyrolific
Could someone provide an example of one of these "feel-good approaches"?


I have a sticker on my drink bottle that says:
"Keep Winter Cool, the snow seasons short enough as it is...Fight global Warming"

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
how 'bout these bumper stickers?


Non-Https Image Link


And there are a few more... how 'bout representatives of charity organizations flying first or business class, lodging 5* and the average dummy financing all this in order to polish their image and point their finger at others?

Stout: WE as consumers might be making "right" choices... but for every consumer in the West, there are 100 consumers in the East, who don't understand the impact their choices make. You NEED to live in some of these countries to understand exactly WHERE the change has to happen in order to yield a result. In this country MOST people are veg already...

BUT check here: https://www.indiatogether.org/environment/

Stone: and where do you find me denying global warming? Finally quote me. On the bottom I'm posting some charts for an overview. Stop instigating and using me as your target only because I have a different view on HOW exactly to tackle the problem.

However, global warming and rising sea levels are not going to be the end of the world as we know it. Last time I checked the NASA website this planet was still circumnavigating the sun, the full moon reappears quite predictably, North is still on the top side of the map. THE PLANET is fine... the people are f***ed.

These psychological studies didn't result from counseling the upper management of EXXON, BP or Du Pont, did they? Or extracted from the G.W.B. files... wink

What Rouge is referring to when naming the global warming issue a "religion" is that for decades people have chosen to ignore the facts and turned deaf to scientific "prediction models". Now it's in front of (y)our very doorsteps. Address your governments, because in Germany I did along with many others and environmental protection levels are still amongst the highest on the planet... we sacrificed competitiveness and yielded unemployment and high prices as a reward. Because companies shifted their production to third wold countries... In the end Germany is now starting to regress, because people need jobs FIRST.

And really I start to believe that it's more about the gender-conflict... my girlfriend starts resenting to my reforestation efforts as "the energy flow gets blocked" and my water conservation attempt in the kitchen sink is abandoned due to "aesthetics"... shrug

wink



Non-Https Image Link


Non-Https Image Link


So neither higher temperatures, nor sea levels are going to put THIS PLANET in jeopardy... WE as a race will face a lot more... intimacy when (for example) the kaaskopp has to snuggle in with the muff and us mountaineers will need to come up with very sophisticated methods to live in harmony with all them lowlanders...

(PS all my posts need to be read with a certain kind of humor, somewhere between New Yorkian, Pommie and German)...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Quote:Stout: WE as consumers might be making "right" choices... but for every consumer in the West, there are 100 consumers in the East, who don't understand the impact their choices make. You NEED to live in some of these countries to understand exactly WHERE the change has to happen in order to yield a result. In this country MOST people are veg already...

I fully agree here and it's an issue I try to remain silent on by avoiding flinging accusations at developing nations. I do see it all the time though. What about India? What about China? why should "we" be forced to give up our lifestyles when "they" are poised to be worse.

I'm all up for the per capita carbon emissions though and as a Canadian I realise we're among the worst offenders however we seem to magically slip under everyone's radar, well the oil tar sands are getting some attention now.

Quote:THE PLANET is fine... the people are f***ed.

Agreed, not just the people though, most of the critters as well.

Quote:... my girlfriend starts resenting to my reforestation efforts as "the energy flow gets blocked

Now that's just plain weird. Everyone knows this is tres oldschool and that plants only block bad energy and the majority of species actually convert that bad energy into good energy and pass it on, much like the way they convert toxic CO2 into beneficial oxygen.

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Hi Stout, glad you liked the article on psychology and global climate change. This one is simpler, but nevertheless insightful - Society’s Grand Challenges. Insights from Psychological Science. Global Climate Change. Now you have a fun Asian adventure, y'hear.



Originally Posted By: Fire TomStone: and where do you find me denying global warming? Finally quote me. On the bottom I'm posting some charts for an overview. Stop instigating and using me as your target only because I have a different view on HOW exactly to tackle the problem.

However, global warming and rising sea levels are not going to be the end of the world as we know it. Last time I checked the NASA website this planet was still circumnavigating the sun, the full moon reappears quite predictably, North is still on the top side of the map. THE PLANET is fine... the people are f***ed.

Tom, you appear to be using the charts to deny global warming. If that's the case, then I find it difficult to understand how you are going to tackle the problem of global warming, if according to your EXXON charts, there is no problem. (I will admit that I am jumping to conclusions here, because I honestly have no idea what the charts are meant to mean: Sea leves falling, temperatures increasing? Temperature and sea levels are decreasing?) So, you can put up all the graphs you like, but they won’t change what’s happen in the “real” world. Take this NASA picture of the snow and ice melting on Kilimanjaro. The big difference here is that it's a real NASA photo. The scientists who actually measure climate change parameters are the ones who understand what’s happen with the environment. And then there are the sceptics. Basically, desk jockeys who speculate about what happening, and produce pretty graphs to mislead people and sell books.

And Tom, I’m not attacking you personally. It’s just that the argument against Global Warming is absolute rubbish.


EDITED_BY: Stone (1260495191)
EDIT_REASON: calarity and accuracy

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Stone: FINALLY QUOTE ME WHERE I AM DENYING GLOBAL WARMING! umm unbelievable really...

What I have pointed out is that this planet had warmer (and much colder) periods in its history, water levels have been (significantly) higher - and yet continues its course steadily.

IMO we are contributing to a climate change on a very big scale. Some deny this - NOT ME. WE - as a species - gobble up the resources of this planet (IMO) is fact - but that in itself is nothing against nature (from observation). Species often continue to thrive until thresholds are surpassed and the natural resources they depend their livelihood on are running out. USUALLY natural selection kicks in before. Not so with humans who have the ability to quickly adapt to extreme circumstances and are opportunistic in nature.

The last environmental disaster - which lead to the extinction of dinosaurs - might have been the very opportunity for humans to arise... wow, how thrilling. Who would know, maybe MOTHER NATURE will come up with far more advanced organisms - after mankind vanished?

BACK ON TOPIC:

Originally Posted By: World environment newsThe scientists said global action was needed to maximize the benefits of cutting meat production and consumption, and that the environmental advantages "may apply only in those countries that currently have high production levels."

And who would guess that this affects China, Brazil and India? According to a HINDU-CNN survey, about 60% of the Indian population are non-veg... and this equals more then 600 million people... in India alone. Hello...

IMO "becoming veg" will not do the trick (alone)... it will contribute to a change - but a change that will take far too long to have the necessary short term effects. Vice versa, the gases created in meat production could be used for the generation of energy... THIS in itself doesn't mean that I do approve the life defying methods in meat production at all!

But it's not about pointing at others saying "YOU have to"... it's about here, now and rather say "WE ALL should"... and "everyone to his possibilities".

IMO industries need to be held accountable for their policies and their products need to be taxed (on import) due to the environmental impact they create... competitiveness on a market should not be increased by dirty policies. Further should be the management of said companies be held directly accountable for their (dirty) decisions. This (along with worldwide education) will make the change (much faster)...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Tom, as to the World Environment News, how about you quote the whole article. See page 5, this discussion. Eating 30 Percent Less Meat Good For Health, Planet

Cheers smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
did you? laugh3

And need to revise my earlier statement: actually I have little clue about what really needs to be dun... what lies within range of possibilities at all...

Do we really hold our parents accountable for their actions? Because they already had sufficient information...

Only the outcome was not predictable... is it going to be cold or hot? Or wot?





Watch at 1:49...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
Did anyone see on BBC 4 this week "Man on Earth" with Tony Robinson? He was explaining passed global climate changes and the last time there was a 10 degree Celsius increase in temperature like we are facing it turned the dry african areas into lush green plains full of grasses and trees. He also showed how sea levels were at least 6 metres higher then than they are now. I agree with Tom it's not the planet just the current species which are screwed. I did like his comments on how the last major global warming was what may have actually saved humans from extinction.

I'm not sure if that would be a good thing or not as humans would then be likely to start farming there and the cahnge in environment would be bad for animals with no means of migration due to human populations.
It all made me think. we struggle to save endangered species that are designed to fit in tiny niches and yes we should do our utmost to not destroy them, but we have to focus on the fact that the climate will change and diversity will be effected.

I do wonder when Politians will actually put the planet and the people first and put restrictions on them regardless of the fact there will be public outcry. How long before they are able to make the tough decisions. population control, border control, emission control.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Tom, that was 89 000 years ago. You are living in the past. It’s the future we have to worry about. For example, what’s going to happens when the Punjab runs out of ground water?

Hi Mynci, I haven’t seen “Man on Earth" with Tony Robinson, but I will keep an eye out for it, as it will surely be shown locally. I have to say that Tony Robinson, while persuasive and often funny, is an actor. His suggestion that temperatures are likely to turn dry african areas into lush green plains full of grasses and trees, is a far cry from reality. For example, Mali villagers fight back against Sahara.


Originally Posted By: MynciI do wonder when Politians will actually put the planet and the people first and put restrictions on them regardless of the fact there will be public outcry. How long before they are able to make the tough decisions. population control, border control, emission control.

Originally Posted By: Fire TomIMO industries need to be held accountable for their policies and their products need to be taxed (on import) due to the environmental impact they create... competitiveness on a market should not be increased by dirty policies. Further should be the management of said companies be held directly accountable for their (dirty) decisions. This (along with worldwide education) will make the change (much faster)...


I think a many of these policies are actually happening, for example.

US environment watchdog moves to fight climate change.

The US administration of Barack Obama has signalled it will regulate greenhouse gas emissions even if Congress does not approve climate legislation. The decision comes from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which has concluded greenhouse gases are endangering people's health and must be regulated.

EPA director Lisa Jackson says the accumulation of carbon dioxide and five other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere can lead to hotter, longer heat waves that threaten the health of the sick, the poor and the elderly. Ms Jackson says such gases increase pollution linked to asthma and other respiratory illnesses.

"This long overdue finding cements 2009's place in history as the year the United States Government began seriously addressing the challenge of greenhouse gas pollution and seizing the opportunity of clean energy reform," she said."

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Rouge DragonBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia


Posted:
I wouldn't discredit Tony Robinson just because he's an actor. After all, one of the loudest voices that got climate change awareness off the ground was a politician wink

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
So now we say "lots a worries, mate!" ? wink

Originally Posted By: StoneTom, that was 89 000 years ago. You are living in the past. ...

It's these kinds of perpetual punning that is so extremely tiresome engaging in a discussion with you (apart from your inability of insight and maxime "j'excuse, j'accuse"...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Fair point Rouge.



Tom, just to bring you up to date with what's happening in the "real" world -
A Journey through Climate History








If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
I reckon people are beginning to find it difficult to actually justify their lifestyles IRT the overwhelming evidence supporting the Anthropogenic Climate Change model. As such, they are experiencing Cognitive Dissonance ("...an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.":wiki). In order to reduce CD, people cast about for any evidence that might support their previous choices and arguments, as this is by far easier than admitting you are wrong, and therefore having to change your behaviour. In such a state, authoring a belief system that would be popular with people looking for alternative evidence could be very profitable. As such, you find these books and blogs of people who are stringing together a few points of contrary evidence into a belief system that allows people to feel that perhaps they are ok and that its just some silly scientists getting in a huff about it blah blah.

The problem with stringing together a theory from a few points of evidence to the contrary of thousands of pieces pointing the other way is that it totally discredits the theory - if you apply scientific method. And here you find religion. So I guess if you want to label one camp in this debate "religious", it should really be the ACC skeptics.

Have you guys even read this page?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_of_recent_climate_change

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
*yawn* another feel good attack, Stonie?
enjoy living in a world that consists of those who agree with you and those who are "just wrong"... ?

Are you missing Lurch and DoppelGanger responding to you in the gun thread?

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A FACT!!! peace

Now do remember this post of mine, because I will just link to it anytime you accuse me of denial wink Remember that behind most avatars and nicks there might actually be a living (sentient) being. wink

Josh - in the same line - recent climate change IS manmade, or at least accelerated by mankind. No denial from my side.

The only angle I am offering is that

- mankind either is going to cope with concurring change, takes according measures to slow down the process and comes up with solutions to deal with a changed (climatic) environment (floods, droughts, rising sea levels...) OR
- will suffer its demise... maybe even quite miserably...

just that THIS itself will not mean the end of planet earth itself and most likely not even the end of all life on this planet...

If you scroll through my posts you will find that I never advocated eating meat... but I simply stated that becoming veg (alone) will not do the trick and warned that "turning veg" (alone) will be a misleading "feelgood approach". Moreover I pointed out that it might lead to separation of people... at times where we should celebrate each others contribution towards saving the environment and positively encourage more.

Thanks for enlightening me for that last bit of last paragraph and make me round it up as follows

Become veg - but don't suffer the delusion that it will do the trick alone. Beware of pointing your finger at people who do eat meat as certainly they will resent and it's not helping the cause. Be(come more) gentle and go further: organize a rally, volunteer, whatever suits your lifestyle and abilities, contribute - however small. Offer feasible solutions. And above all try to enjoy and celebrate life, for grumpy people are roaming this planet enough already. Keep up a positive playful attitude.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
Originally Posted By: FireTomBecome veg - but don't suffer the delusion that it will do the trick alone. Beware of pointing your finger at people who do eat meat as certainly they will resent and it's not helping the cause. Be(come more) gentle and go further: organize a rally, volunteer, whatever suits your lifestyle and abilities, contribute - however small. Offer feasible solutions. And above all try to enjoy and celebrate life, for grumpy people are roaming this planet enough already. Keep up a positive playful attitude.

and if you have the time, attempt to discover a method of electricity production derived from people spinning staff and poi smile

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Hi Pyro,

I think the Liberal party experienced Cognitive Dissonance, or some kind of melt down, over the emissions trading scheme bills. As a result, I think many people have dismissed Anthropogenic Climate Change, and are just hoping global warming will all go away.

The page on attribution of recent climate change makes much sense. And, I see what you mean by ACC skeptics being religious. You would need a lot of bind faith to believe some of the stories.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Originally Posted By: StoutIt probably won't happen in our lifetimes, but id you come to know your grandchildren, they may have questions about why "your" generation did what they did, knowing what they know.

there's been this thread about carbon offset for fire performers but I can't find it...

"Granpa, is it true that at the beginning of the 21st century people were still burning fossil fuels for entertainment?" "Yes, kid - I've been one of them."

...

is(n't) it a bit frivolous to discuss "vegetarianism for climate change" on a fireperformers forum? It kind-of forces this "feelgood approach" thing on me...

wink

And Stone, being religious doesn't require b(l)ind faith...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Not really, but I see your point though.

In actuality, when I add up all the fuel I burn spinning and factor in the fuel used getting to and from gigs and compare it to what i *could* be burning if i actually commuted to and from work every day, it's not much in the grand scheme of things.

This year was by far the least carbon intensive as the cops have a brand new law to use against us re recreational fire ($400 fine) that's killed our weekly fire jams.

So I'm claiming less than a hundred litres of fuel burned by me personally in the past year for my indulgence in these arts.

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Don’t worry Stout, you can always plant a tree wink








If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Yes..I can plant a tree

A tall tree with a straight trunk..an evergreen like a mountain hemlock. I could water and fertilise it so it grows all tall and majestic and stalwart and breathtaking and awe inspiring and....stout!!!.

I could grow that tree fro 500 years and once it's reached it's full height I could chop it down. Now here's my reasoning.

Cellulose is mostly carbon by weight, right? so if I take that stout trunk, toss it in the ocean and hook it to my kayak ant tow it out to the really. really deep part of the ocean. You know the place, the one with the mud bottom.

So I'm out in the middle of the ocean with my tree trunk, it's all waterlogged and wanting to sink, but here's the kicker. In my kayak I have a 5 tonne conical weight that just happens to fir perfectly on the top, narrow part of the trunk. I chain this sucker on real good, maybe hammer in a few spikes just for insurance.

Then I let the thing go.

By my reckoning that thing's going to head for the bottom at near the speed of sound and when it impacts in the mud, it's going to bury itself deep in the mud.

So we have a bunch of carbon, literally sealed in a high pressure environment in the absence of oxygen. Ha! it'll never rot...never!

I'd be effectively taking that carbon and returning it to the underground from whence it came. I'd be carbon freakin' neutral, when it comes to firespinning at least.

Here's the kicker, I already bought the tree. It's going to live in a pot for a few years and serve as a live Christmas tree before it gets planted in the ground.

It's genius I tells ya and 500 years from now I'm going to be famous.


smile

WoodlandAppleBRONZE Member
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
reasons why climate change is a good thing:

1. The warmer weather means that the rock climbing season is extended as the rock is always drier and the weather nicer.

2. I read somewhere that it will push the southern hemisphere weather patterns up closer to the equator. This means that for a while, Australia will get New Zealand snow. I could live with that.

3. rising sea levels mean Im living closer to the beach.

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
Originally Posted By: Stone

Hi Mynci, I haven’t seen “Man on Earth" with Tony Robinson, but I will keep an eye out for it, as it will surely be shown locally. I have to say that Tony Robinson, while persuasive and often funny, is an actor. His suggestion that temperatures are likely to turn dry african areas into lush green plains full of grasses and trees, is a far cry from reality. For example, Mali villagers fight back against Sahara.


Hi Stone it wasn't a suggestion it was history it was how the savanah formed and flourished before the sahara. On his last episode they showed the many human settlements in the (now) sahara based upon lake shores, although I agree it is unlikely to happen exactly the same way twice espescially since the sahara formed about 8000 years ago there is not the same base soil for the grass / plants to grow back.

I can honestly see humanity breaking back down to smaller groups fighting for resources and dramatically reducing human population. The one question I have regarding climate change (which is a fact and humans contribute towards it ) is what happens when climate change occurs and it is NOT driven by humans? this is the fact that I think is avoided by many climate change proponents. Yes we are currently driving climate change. what happens if we reduce carbon output make everything cleam and temperatures again rise - because climate change overall does not NEED to be driven by humans. wouldn't we be better off working to deal with climate change rather than trying to prevent it? because humans cannot perpetually control the Earths climate. we could spend billions of dollars and all our resources and effort cutting back emissions for it to actually not do any good as there is no guarantee the world will correct the balance.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Working to deal with climate change rather than trying to prevent it is what we're going to end up doing. I'd like to claim credit for that ridiculous ( yet plausible ) scenario that I posted last might but I can't.

I adapted the idea from an English university professors. His plan is to freeze giant dry ice torpedos out of manufactured CO2 and bomb those into the bottom of the seabed. High pressure+ cold temps+CO2 being re-sequestered.

MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
How would we know how much Co2 to sequester? and what if we act like it's gone and it dissolves and comes back? that would be like a time bomb. Dry Ice is soluble so that part of the sea would surley die as carbonic acid was formed. so the cure to Global warming would be to poison the sea? seems a pretty bad idea to me wink

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Pinatubo's eruption cooled the planet by 0.4° ...

mankind is quite good in blowing things up, so we could... sacrifice two or three mountains and things would be back to normal...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
The idea IIRC, was that the intense pressure at the bottom of the sea would prevent the C02 from dissolving. It's just another idea in a long line of technofixes.

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Originally Posted By: StoutI adapted the idea from an English university professors. His plan is to freeze giant dry ice torpedos out of manufactured CO2 and bomb those into the bottom of the seabed. High pressure+ cold temps+CO2 being re-sequestered.

Stout, thanks for the explanation. I wasn’t sure what mountain hemlock story was about. It’s probably a realistic as “clean coal”. I suppose, we will have to consider nuclear power too.


Originally Posted By: Mynci...The one question I have regarding climate change (which is a fact and humans contribute towards it ) is what happens when climate change occurs and it is NOT driven by humans? ...

Mynci, I think that people are trying to deal with anthropogenic climate change, that’s why we are cutting back on emissions. Yes, I agree there is no guarantee. What do you suggest, do nothing? Create a hostile barren wilderness for the future generations of humans, and all other life forms on the planet.

Originally Posted By: WoodlandApples

reasons why climate change is a good thing:

1. The warmer weather means that the rock climbing season is extended as the rock is always drier and the weather nicer.

2. I read somewhere that it will push the southern hemisphere weather patterns up closer to the equator. This means that for a while, Australia will get New Zealand snow. I could live with that.



WoodlandApples,

I think you could be mistaken about the climbing - Heat-affected climber rescued, and the snow - Australian ski fields on slippery slope.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


WoodlandAppleBRONZE Member
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
Originally Posted By: Stone I think you could be mistaken about the climbing - Heat-affected climber rescued, and the snow - Australian ski fields on slippery slope.


NOOOoooooooooo!!!!!!!!! shocked

but on a serious note that climbing article was a load of rubbish, that is not the way it happened. The guy in question was way hungover, and the climb he was on (he wasnt mountain climbing like the article suggests, it is only 80 metres high) is directly in the sun all day. He didnt bring enough water and was not wearing any suncream. The temperatures were not at 40 on that day, otherwise I would have needed rescuing too as I was climbing just around the corner. (though I was in the shade)

Holy Crap, further investigations confirm; I was on the same climb as this person on that day! (just earlier in the morning).

I dont recall ANY heicopters and he was rescued by the Arapiles rescue squad, not the police. The Arapiles rescue squad is just the fancy name given to local climbers who have been given beepers.

That article is misrepresenting user error as climate change.
The skiing one is not true too, I work at Bulla and I can say that the snow condition is much worse in Australia than that frown
EDITED_BY: WoodlandApple (1261014169)
EDIT_REASON: added a last comment

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.


WoodlandAppleBRONZE Member
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
although, it did snow at Mt. Kosciouszko just two weeks ago so maybe.....

nope snow in Australia is dying.

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
trying to cope with climate change/ trying to reduce emissions by turning (back) to nuclear power (IMHO) is not a feasible alternative - especially when the aim is to leave an equally nice space to grow up for future generations.

as it has been proven, the long term problems created by nuclear power (plants) might be as bad or become even worse than the current way of generating energy.

Thus: Go solar!

one problem in finding a solution to the problem is that different people do have different "ideas" on how to tackle the problem... many of them are not practicable or shift the problem to other areas, create other environmental problems or just push it a little further down the alley...
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1261042811)
EDIT_REASON: wording

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


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