Forums > Social Discussion > Vegetarianism for climate change?

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

I wonder how these farmers would do, if they had to build their own houses, design and fit their own machinery, mix their own chemical fertilizers and transport the cattle to the slaughterhouse themselves...

I also wonder how many presidents would start a war, if they would have to pull the trigger each time...

I am quite certain that people will even be prepared to kill and butcher each other, if only their stomach hurts enough and their children die from hunger... after all, humans seem to be quite easy prey

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Fire Tom, I�m not sure I�m following you here.

Originally Posted By: Fire TomI wonder how these farmers would do, if they had to build their own houses, design and fit their own machinery, mix their own chemical fertilizers and transport the cattle to the slaughterhouse themselves...

I say they would do very well. Farmer are robust and innovative, and many farmers do exactly as you say. That is they build their own houses, design and build machinery, mix their own (organic) fertilisers, and even make their own bio-diesel.

Originally Posted By: Fire Tom also wonder how many presidents would start a war, if they would have to pull the trigger each time...

I'd say many presidenst started as rebel leaders and would have no problem pulling the trigger. That�s the problem.

Originally Posted By: Fire TomI am quite certain that people will even be prepared to kill and butcher each other, if only their stomach hurts enough and their children die from hunger... after all, humans seem to be quite easy prey.

My take is that people will keep killing and butchering each other until they learn to respect other sentient beings by not killing them and eating them. Note that plants are not generally considered sentient.

So apart from the obvious negative impact of unbridled meat consumption on the environment, I'd say respect for humans beings starts by learning to respect all sentient beings.



Be Veg, Go Green, Save the Planet

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Don't mind me, just passing through.

*wonders if she should ask permission before expressing her opinion*

I like that spin on it - the mentality rather than the practicality. Because mentality can be extended into other aspects of life and isn't restricted to diet alone.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Originally Posted By: Stonemany presidenst started as rebel leaders

"many"'s such a vague term that I cease to comment

Originally Posted By: Stoneeven make their own bio-diesel.

Originally Posted By: blog makezineBob Teixeira decided it was time to take a stand against U.S. dependence on foreign oil.

So last fall the Charlotte musician and guitar instructor spent $1,200 to convert his 1981 diesel Mercedes to run on vegetable oil. He bought soybean oil in 5-gallon jugs at Costco, spending about 30 percent more than diesel would cost.

His reward, from a state that heavily promotes alternative fuels: a $1,000 fine last month for not paying motor fuel taxes.

He's been told to expect another $1,000 fine from the federal government.

And to legally use veggie oil, state officials told him, he would have to first post a $2,500 bond.

spread the word

Originally Posted By: StoneSo apart from the obvious negative impact of unbridled meat consumption on the environment, I'd say respect for humans beings starts by learning to respect all sentient beings.

ONE of my criticisms on "practical (western) Buddhists" is the continuous neglect and discrimination of plants...

Remember: If you decide to "go green" - don't trample!

Originally Posted By: JKVegetarianism because you respect other life forms and believe that they have just as much right to exist as we do on this planet.

*scratches head* if that was meant to be serious I would rather advise "fruitarianism" no plucking, no cutting - only picking up from the ground

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Stone - your open approach continues to impress me



J

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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Stone:

Originally Posted By: StoneYou have already said you don�t care what happens to the planet

STOP putting words into my mouth or - at least quote me.

In lack of appropriate quotes, kindly admit that you (continue to) throw vast assumptions at me... (instantly forgiven - in the course of recent years I learned to handle your 'style' )

I said that "this planet is fine". I stand to it. You have (presented) NO arguments whatsoever to prove my statement wrong.

This planet is circling around the sun as it has done for billions of years and (most likely) will continue to do so a few billion years after mankind has been washed off or deserted it. We do NOT have the power to change that.

This planet has gone through a lot worse than us... Ice Ages, Meteor Showers, Continental Drifts to name a few... species got extinct... but to be precise the vast majority of them did. Climate has always changed.

As to the part where we - as a species - are contributing to the climate changing and whether or not we therefore are eradicating ourselves: there are a number of opposing opinions on the topic.

Climate change, hoax of the century - @ Infowars to give another angle (disclaimer: I'm not necessarily subscribing to this POV)

Biodiesel is far off topic, but okay: I got NO problem with it... only that it COULD be illegal (tax evasion) in some countries under certain circumstances. Hence my link.

Sentinence: plants DO have intelligence and feelings. You appear to deprive them and classify them as lower life forms... I see quite a number of people who have no problem with insecticides, pesticides, mono cultures - in the kingdom of PLANTS. Why? Because you can't hear them scream? Plants have been around for a substantial longer period than any "sentinent" being... You seem to lack of respect for this fact.

Sorry, I'm not subscribing to -isms of whatever kind. I am merely observing that quite a few people seem to have their own idea of who any of the great spiritual leaders of this planet were and what they actually said. Thus I also don't care too much for your passive aggression and denigration towards myself. Spiritual capitalism and elitism is quite common, always has been. I'm not going further on a spiritual debate with you as this.

I honor everybody who chooses awareness, but wouldn't go as far as calling them (or myself) having an "enlightened understanding of what is going on in the real world"... whatever you connect to the term "real"...

We have - in another thread - already made a ranked list of diets and figured which one of them has the least impact on the environment. Whether or not they are actually healthy is a completely different topic

However it got clear that - when it comes to completely "karma free food" the only way is 'fruitarianism'. Of that particular path only picking up what has already fallen to the ground can be considered absolutely "karma free"... btw devouring on already dismembered bodies of animals (or humans) could be considered "karma free" also... bit morbid but still - it's that...

Point is that I honor anyone's opinion and way of life - as long as they're not stepping on my feet, take away my habitat, tote their guns at/ threaten me or try to shove it down my throat or up the other end...

So: whatever makes you (a) happy (hippie) - be my guest.

I notice(d) myself condescending to people who don't practice or live "unaware", eat steaks or poke smot for breakfast already, ride the beach on a motorbike, guzzle fuel in SUV's, travel to space for chuckles or rub off on their guns...

Take it from me: it's just a reflection of inadequacies of "the self". (almost) Everytime I catch myself and ask: Tom, you seem not to be happy. Get a break, make a holiday or hug a tree for this sake... 'Cause ultimately it's my mind that creates this world and there's space for everyone... even for you

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Thanks Josh

Fire Tom, you might like to check out these docos when you get a chance:Planet Earth: The Future and Saving Planet Earth

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Originally Posted By: Fire TomSentinence: plants DO have intelligence and feelings. You appear to deprive them and classify them as lower life forms... I see quite a number of people who have no problem with insecticides, pesticides, mono cultures - in the kingdom of PLANTS. Why? Because you can't hear them scream? Plants have been around for a substantial longer period than any "sentinent" being... You seem to lack of respect for this fact.

Fire Tom if you could really hear the plants screaming then I think you would have a totally different outlook on global warming and the future of the planet.

The fact is that most of the plants we consume for food are annual plants. An annual plant is a plant that germinates, flowers, and dies in a year or season. Many food plants are annuals. This includes domesticated grains (wheat, rice, lentils, soy, navy beans etc), tubers (potatoes, carrots, swedes) and leafy vegetables like cabbages. So, the reality is that these plants aren't screaming is because they aren't being killed. But you do have a point, some plants are screaming.

The plants that are screaming are likely to be noble long-lived trees and plants from rainforests in places like the Amazon. They are screaming because they are being cut down at alarming rate to make way for cows that are turned into super-size-me hamburgers. The irony is the unnecessary decimation of the rainforests and the slaughter of cows accelerates global warming.

Now you have a nice day

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Potatoes, swedes and carrots aren't annual, they're biennial The roots of any tubers we eat would naturally survive and regrow- though still being the same plant- after a dormant period.

By the way, I could try and find a reference for this if you want, but I do recall reading that the rate of deforestation for soy plantations actually exceeded the rate of clearing for beef farming several years ago. Bit ironic really- eat tofu, destroy the rainforest?

Well, except for the fact that most of the soy produced is used as cheap high-protein animal feed..

THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

I've seen it on ... *fill in any established and reputed television agency, like BBC, CNN, Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, National Geographic, Nikelodeon, MTV* ... thus it just GOT to be true...

I'm taking all reports from media as being biased to get their content sold... in whichever direction. Not saying that it's necessarily WRONG - only saying that it's that: populist propaganda....

THE PLANET (EARTH) IS FINE! More than once ALL trees and MOST animals have vanished from its surface... life has the tendency to rebound - maybe not in the shape that we are used to (and like so much at this point) BUT life is extremely... perennial. Only because there are TV shows that say: SAVE THE PLANET it doesn't mean that its necessarily the case...

Stone - thanks for the links provided thanks for trying to raise awareness... I really hope we have the chance to meet IRL one day

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Fire Tom, if you are taking all reports from the media as being biased because they charge for their products, then you problem is with the media, not climate change.

Or to put it aniother way, it's unreasonable to ignore the implications of climate change because you distrust the media. There are a number of people at HoP who will give you their first hand experiences on the implications of climate change.

I see your point about the plant surviving climate change, but if you don�t think we can kill the planet then you are dreaming. Anyhow, while technically a planet devoid of animals, trees, water, air and all forms of life is still a planet, but what�s the point? Better we look after the planet we have, and leave it in better condition when we depart than when we came. You never know, you might be �reborn� one day

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Stone: Climate has been changing (significantly) throughout (human and planetary) history - what's the point? Which scale do you apply? 50 - 500 - 5.000 - 50.000 years? Worried about your comfortable lifestyle?

We can't kill the planet - and it's even unlikely that we will be able to kill all lifeforms on it (even if we'd try with all nuclear weaponry that we currently have at our disposal - however unlikely the event at all). If your perception of "life" is limited to that existing (and present) one on this planet, so be it... but it has little to do with "real(ity)"

Trying to leave a place better than you found it, is an honorable attempt (and my personal motto btw) - however you'll have to do a lot of sweeping up to turn the clock back before mankind fuddled with agriculture, cut down trees and domesticated animals ...

Rebirth is not a Buddhist concept is it?

Pyro: I don't claim to know the masterplan - personally I wouldn't settle in areas plagued with droughts, floods, poverty or oppressive regimes - which is why refugees usually find my full compassion (if these are their motifs).

I can't follow up on the inconsistency you're talking about.

Try to care for half a billion of people (officially living under the poverty line)... without becoming aware that the wealth of the 5% of India is directly built on it (and has been long before East India Companie has ever come to existence). So how to challenge it?

We're greatly getting offtopic right here and might derail another thread, but trying to solve mankind's problems by staying away from McD's alone is what I'd call "dreaming".

And suffering from the delusion that a veggie diet is preventing floods in Bangladesh or turning one into a better person (than another) will only result in separating us from each other even more, when most that we need right now is compassion and understanding... yesno?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Ouch o.O

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Did I mention that I regularly plant trees, live on a 98% veg diet, am only driving a motorbike, do not need heating (tropical climate), install energy saving lights though my maximum electricity bills sum to a mere 15$/ month, conserve water where possible and am one of the very few separating trash and not burning plastic in my backyard?

I find myself confronted with a few misconceptions about "poverty" "save the planet" and "FireTom doesn"t care for the environment"

"Save the planet" is a slogan only - care for your environment and act locally without imposing your concepts on others... \

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Ouch o.O

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Stone: there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path...

You color my arguments the way you like to hear them, not the way I mean them.

You have concepts and ideas about me and my way of life, continue to throw vast assumptions and judgments at me, when in reality you are only shooting in(to) the dark with your eyes closed.

Live up to your signature and act from compassion, love and understanding... and you might actually get somewhere

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh