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green1706


stranger
Location: Romania

Total posts: 3
Posted:Children born for what? Violence and torture against children is a fact to which we are witnesses, even if we do not want. I have seen children beaten, made to beg, crippled or abandoned by parents. If you want to be a parent but you do not have security for the future of your child, then I think you should to think twice before you give life to an innocent beings. Child care should be a priority. What you think about this? What should be done to prevent negligence and carelessness of the kids?

frown


Love my kids

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: green1706What you think about this?

does the expression: "can of worms" have any meaning for you?

I side you that people should think twice before bringing children into this world. But this would mean to think twice before having sex - and it is in the very nature of the game that when it comes to having sex, blood is leaving the head in favor of supplying the genitals.

[sidenote]Really amazing how much difference a little more or less blood in different parts of the body can make...[/]

What can be done? Curb corruption and have the money go to education (of the parents) --> less violence against others.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:ROMANIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*cough* Sorry, got all excited when I saw green's location.

I agree that this topic is a can of worms, and what's more I have a feeling that there is going to be a clear divide between people who have visited areas where this issue is more prevalent and people who haven't (something I've noticed among my friends when we talk about similar topics)

(Now I'm missing Romania....)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:oops, forgot to wave welcome you to HoP smile

the question "what are children born for" applies to all of us - because we all have been children at some stage.
It's one of the biggest topics... "what are we here for"?

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1250919113)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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JayKitty
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 534
Posted:I've seen people tell me with one breath that they love their children with all their heart and that they would give them anything, then about a minute later try and ask someone for some dope because you know, their kid doesn't really NEED silly things like clothes and food, but they really could use a fix. Poeple do bad things that we can't do anything about, it is just that much worse when they corrupt an innocent life in the process.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:JK - they rather go get some "fix" before freaking out on their children and slap them silly... IMHO wink

I found that children act like mirrors (of ones subconscious desires) - and that for some it's really not that easy to look into this mirror every day/ all day.

I choose to send love and compassion to the parents in need, rather than criticism and judgment... very hard for me, but then again: I have no children to care for, so "whaddoIknow"?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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JayKitty
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 534
Posted:They would rather get a fix than do a lot of things, like take care of their kids and love them. But that's another story. I do agree, children are amazing at picking up all your little quirks. Hopefully you show them the love that's in your heart.
Sadly they pick up the hate more often, in the news recently a little girl in the US was sent home because she wore a shirt that read "Islam is of the Devil!" when her father came to pick her up... he had on the ssame shirt. He was a pastor at a church. Yeah.


Don't mind me, just passing through.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:This reminds me of what I saw on the news this week. A chinese boy studying in the UK was killer by driver who mounted the kerb. The parents are now sueing the drivers insurance company for future loss of earnings because of the old chinese tradition of children supporting their parents when they get old (filial support or some such).

this I believe outlines the problem. NOT all children are born based upon whether they can be supported or not. in some cases the motivation is to have a child so they can work to support the parent. This occurs far too frequently and links back to the ethics thread I've been discussing with Tom wink

If a parent believes it is their right to have a child to support them should we be allowed to rail against it? if it is a national belief / tradition? I personally hope the above case gets thrown out as if the parents win it means the child was nothing more to them than a cash cow, but on the flip side humans put a lot of time, effort and money into briniging up a child (if they are good parents) should the child be expected to pay back for the gift of life? (I personally don't think so it's too much like being born into slavery even if it is to your own parents)

I'm sure some places in africa must have similar beliefs to the chinese as they have little food or water but still seem able and willing to churn out 4-8 children. I understand the mortality rate but does this mean that we should ban people in poorer nations having children because they cannot support them?
It would essential result in ethicnically clensing poor nations.

as to children and mirrors, well I think that it's becuase parents are the role models so kids will automatically copy what appears to be a successfully grown human. they see someone who has reached reproductive age and aim to copy the method used so they too can reproduce (obviously subconsciously, we're not talking super brain children think that cognatively, more a darwinian explaination of children who mimic their parents grow up and have more children who mimic their parents etc probably worked when we lived in caves) my girlfriends little boy sees me play with circus props and immediately mimics me if he can get his hands on some laugh3 but that could just be play wink


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:I'm curious as to why all women of child bearing age aren't on birth control considering all of it's benefits for PMS, PMDD, acne, irregular periods, etc. until they are truly ready to have children. Not that men shouldn't do their part to be safe, wrap it up, and make sure contraception is in play with their partner, but ultimately the woman will give birth and should take the appropriate measures weather or not she is (consentually)sexually active.

Most of the horror stories involving children have to do with accidental pregnancy and I've always thought that it should be common sense to not be negligent with the ability to procreate so other than absurd religious arguments and an authoritarian degree of social pressure, I honestly don't know what the problem is.

I just know it's a problem that doesn't seem to go away...


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Total posts: 3597
Posted:Young girls may feel weird letting her parents know she is sexually active?

Some, with how they were raised, may be against birth control...


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:Guys and girls, this is just spam.

Spamspamspam

Well, I think it is.

The only evidence against that is a reply to a reply on another forum: http://www.experiencefestival.com/forum/world-today/272828-child-care.html#post290212

EDITED_BY: UnscrupulousChavOffersFoot (1256305902)


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:only because green might be a spammer it doesn't diminish the facs wink

EON how about proper education and sufficient support?

From where exactly do you get the idea that faking a constant pregnancy by the administration of hormones actually does the female body any good?

When exactly is a woman "truly" ready for giving birth?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Well I think a good starting indicator of being ready is having sex with the goal of getting pregnant. An intentional desired outcome of pregnancy would be a good start in my personal opinion. It's not just young girls this happens to, it's grown women and even married couples who didn't think it would happen so soon and they aren't financially or emotionally ready but feel they must follow through with the raising of an unintended child that many times creates a broken home due to the unpreparedness of the couple. There is only one day a month where a woman can get pregnant, you just never know when you're at peak ovulation...

Proper education is more of a setback than a lack of support. Most local health departments on the state level, planned parenthood, state medicaid, and the regular medical establishment cover the GYN exams, PAP smears, and contraception fully, at a discount, or on a sliding scale and for people who are underage there are normally a few teen sexual health clinics where they can be seen confidentially for all of their sexual health needs. It's adults though that concern me more than teen pregnancy because they no longer have their families to fall back on and are expected to fend for themselves resulting in an injustice to the child, but more often the wrong decisions are made by grown women and couples out of pride, perceived social pressure, and of course such mislead assumptions like "the love of a child will keep us together forever".

The "pill" doesn't exactly trick the body into being pregnant fully, but gives enough of a hormonal regulation to build a mucus lining that does not allow the egg to stick to uterus and also makes the egg fully protected against sperm invasion due to the coating it receives when released from the ovaries. In most cases this action regulates ovulation patterns causing women to have regular and predictable periods, also correcting the problems of an irregular cycle. Not all pills work the same way, but the only medications that trick the body into a psuedopregnancy are the DepoProvera shot and a few of the implants placed in the arm.

Just how I look at things, you've asked some questions that don't exactly have an answer and that's my take on starting ground definitions of "readiness". I'm a 27 year old woman and have been on birth control since my early teens due to terrible, irregular, long periods and PMDD. I'll go off of it when I'm ready to allow the chance of having a child a possibility (I've been settled down for almost 2 years and we aren't ready yet, it'll be a mutual decision of course) but I think without that type of thought before sexual activity a woman(/couples) are taken off guard, weren't ready, and the child will receive the brunt of that negligence.

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1256320489)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:It a sad truth that unwanted pregnancies create conditions under which homes can break and children grow up to face great difficulties.

There are many ways to prevent this and the problem should be tackled on a wide range of possibilities.

- education
- birth control
- abortion rights
- improvement of foster homes
- support for single mom's

are amongst them.

The pill has gotten condemned by religious organizations, fortunately it is widely accepted today. I'm neither an expert nor a medic, so I can't really make precise statements on the benefits and health risks of this. Only that the medics and homeopaths in my vicinity have strong objections.

Endured birth control in developed countries can also lead to other health risks and an over aged population.

On the other hand a "planned" pregnancy is no guarantee for an enduring relationship.

IMHO the subject carries way more details than could eventually elaborated in a few posts. smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:just might be appropriate here:





smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTomThe pill has gotten condemned by religious organizations, fortunately it is widely accepted today. I'm neither an expert nor a medic, so I can't really make precise statements on the benefits and health risks of this. Only that the medics and homeopaths in my vicinity have strong objections.

what do you mean by "medics"? what are their and homeopaths objections?


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:as I said, I'm not an exert in the subject...

Amongst the discomforts it got mentioned:

increase of weight, depressions, bloodflow in between the cycle, disturbances in the cycle, headache up to development of migrane, diminished sexual desire...

more significant risks include:

increased risk of developing breast and ovarian cancer, heart attack and thrombosis, increase of liver damage and infections of the ovarian tract, miscarriage in pregnancies received directly after the pill has not been taken; especially in connection with smoking the risks of heart attacks and thrombosis seems to increase significantly...

there is a big thing going on in the media of hailing the pill on one side and highlighting the risks on the other... this itself leads to a great deal of misinformation - every woman these days will cite one or the other side, whatever suits her personal condition...

the period in which a woman can receive is quite narrow. not sure about the "one day theory" - may be true (I'm no expert). to my knowledge the window is a couple of days as sperm can survive and wait.

but for the matter of the pill curing PMS... *that* I wouldn't subscribe to - at least it's not been very successful on my partners.

if a woman takes the pill without having a partnership (to be "ready", "just in case") psychological problems such as depression might increase significantly...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls., Engla...

Total posts: 756
Posted:
I tried taking it in my teens and basically turned into a hellfiend until came off them- I got major PMS for two full months, and fell out with everyone.

I'll see if I can find a link if anyone wants one, but I did read a few weeks ago that one of the more unusual side effects of being on the pill was that women actually tended to be attracted to different guys than they usually were -it was in part of a study of how smell affects choice in partners, and how that relates to genetic compatability- we're generally pretty good apparently at picking out people with similar genes purely by smell.. except when on the pill..

Could have interesting results, no?


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:You mean I can blame being on the pill for my previous relationship disasters? SCORE!!! laugh3 laugh3

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Oh and in terms of being told so many different things - I had my doctor tell me that it will help prevent breast and ovarian cancer, especially if I took it continuously for a few months. The information is just soooo mixed up and I blame society's view on sex, particularly when it's the woman.

and for me it helped with PMS (especially cramps) but oh my GOD! When I came off it I was completely inconsolable with PMS for the first month! (good thing I recognised that I'd just come off the pill or it might have been much, much worse!)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:the issue i think is really misrepresentation of information and especially studies by the media which tend to over simplify and clarify research which in the most part is really not as difinitive as journalists would like to believe. further Drs may say something which at the time is best practice, but two years down the track when what that doctor said is common knowledge to the public best evidence may now contradict it.

it just so happens that i have the drug guide that comes with the implanon device, which if you know is the implant that is usually inserted in the upper arm of women which slow releases hormones to prevent the ovulatory cycle and is effective for three years. i got the guide around march this year when i was on prac in a doctors general practice and helped insert one. to quote:

"the risk of breast cancer increases in general with increasing age. during the use of oral contraceptives the risk of having breast cancer diagnosed is slightly increased. this increased risk disappears gradually within ten years after discontinuation of oral contraceptive use and is not related to the duration of use, but to the age of the woman when using oral contraceptives. the expected number of cases diagnosed per 10 000 women who use combined oral contraceptives relative to never users over the same period has been calculated for the respective age groups to be: (16-19 years)4.5-5, (20-24 years) 17.5-16, .... (40-44 years) 260/230. .... compared to the risk of getting breast cancer ever in life, the increased risk associated with oral contraceptives is low."

the simple fact is we cant predict the long term effects of everything we consume, and every drug has side effects, to the extent that even the type of food you consume will effect the type of stool you produce. for the most part drugs such as the pill that are available on the market have been rigorously tested in evidence based trials and are deemed sufficiently safe in respect to the benefits outweigh the side effects for the majority of users.

also tom i would agree the window for conception is a bit longer than one day.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:I would love to come in and add useful info and personal advice about contraception but I can't seem to figure out when someone asked a question.

So while we're kinda on the topic, I would recommend the Mirena over the Implanon. Efficacy, side effects etc are all better.

Bu yes, the media takes one study and goes "AMP AMP AMP" and suddenly everyone thinks a certain drug causes cancer.

and this thinking stays with people for years and years even when drugs have changed so much...


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:I think the biggest misconception not taken into account is that there are several pills on the market that come in several strengths. Anyone experiencing bad side effects is either on the wrong dosage or hormone combination for their natural chemistry. Not all contraception is created equal and for good reason, because we're all different.

I dunno about psychological problems stemming from preparedness as an actual concern. If that were to happen to someone I think there are other issues in their life that they need to work out.

I'm not advocating everyone medicate themselves, but if people are going to be sexually active or put themselves into a position where it's likely to happen they should be prepared. Since the woman is the one who gives birth I think they should be extra diligent not only for themselves, but also because I feel men should have their rights and not be chased down and harassed for child support or placed in a situation they don't want to be in because of the social norm. Abortion has a damaging stigma which causes very bad decisions to be made, I would like to think that people would have the sense to understand shotgun weddings and taking the man for all their worth is wrong. It's a heated topic where I find pregnancy prevention and proper responsibility a better deterrent to catastrophic decisions made in the heat of an emotionally charged moment.

Yes people who have good intentions with having children and staying together do break up, but probability for the situation to be a disaster to 3 lives is much higher when the two primaries sources are not ready. It's just my opinion that much suffering and negative reactions can be prevented by eliminating a variable that over complicates a very delicate part of the human psyche in general.

I did take health class and out of the ovulation cycle there is one day every 28 where it's almost a sure bet you will get pregnant within a 72 hour period with much lower ends of possibility. So if you want to widen the full window to 72 hours go for it, but only 18 hours a month are a sure bet due to many biochemical and timing reasons.

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1256599929)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice because of the social norm.

What social norm?

Do you mean the social norm to seek child support? Because if so, what's wrong with that?


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceI did take health class and out of the ovulation cycle there is one day every 28 where it's almost a sure bet you will get pregnant within a 72 hour period with much lower ends of possibility. So if you want to widen the full window to 72 hours go for it, but only 18 hours a month are a sure bet due to many biochemical and timing reasons.

..assuming the boy isnt sterile tongue2


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:
Or faking it wink

The sad fact also remains that now that meat is getting bad environmental press the next step will be laws on child birth. that'll get the catholics upset if they can only have 1 child by law, that's a great way to breed catholicism out.

Children are (I hate to say it) an environmental pressure. I believe in birth control as a benefit to the planet as well as to those children which may be born unwanted and thus mistreated through no fault of their own. I honestly think you should have to get a license to have a child these days although I can see the problems in trying to force a termination. Or prove your parenting worth.
Regardless of the Pill etc there are still condoms for birth control even if they aren't always as effective (are condoms environmentally sound?) And they have fewer serious side effects on the human body. and there is always the vasectomy which can be reversed if very painful, I would suggest it over female sterilisation any day.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:I'm totally for female sterilisation.. but if Im getting my tubes tied, I'm not bleeding for the frigging rest of my life either. Unfortunately, it is ridiculously hard to find a surgeon who will remove a uterus fom a healthy 23 yr old. *sigh*

Rougie - I kinda have a problem with child support too. Say two peope have sex. They use a condom because neither of them are prepared for a child nor want a child.
The girl gets pregnant, decides to have the child then asks for child support.

I know other people have very strong views about abortion but in my opinion, if they weren't in a relationship, both didnt want a child (and hence both chose to use contraception) and the contraception failed, then it is the girls CHOICE to have the child, the man has no say whatsoever yet he has to live with the consequences.

I don't think it's fair that any time a man has sex, he could be paying for it for the rest of his life.


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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Yet sometimes it can be a mutual decision to keep the child, yet later along the line, for whatever reason, it can become a problem. I think the child has the right to the extra financial support behind them. Sure, sometimes it's not needed, and in that case it's all good. But sometimes the extra money is genuinely needed to bring up the child and the child has the right to it.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:When both decide to have a child then yes, that is a commitment for the childs life and then if the parents split, they should both support the kid until 18 or whenever child support finishes...

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls., Engla...

Total posts: 756
Posted:But it's the kid who's likely to suffer if they *don't* have enough money, and they had no choice at all..
I don't like the idea of it being solely the female responsibility to take on all consequences if contraceptives fail- and I don't see why all the risk should be on one partner.

Though I support the right of women to have abortions, I don't think personally I could actually go through with one.. I know I'd spend the rest of my life wondering 'what if..'

I can't help wondering if no-one kept 'accidents' how many board members wouldn't be here.. wink


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:If everything fails and she chooses to bring the child into the world anyway knowing she is not ready, cannot support the child, and it's just going to be a sad endeavor that she refuses to get an abortion or go through adoption proceedings the male half of that scenario should not be financially held accountable for 18 years because of her inability to do the right thing. Most of the time the men hardly have enough money to support themselves and have their licenses revoked (so how are they going to work?) and are thrown in jail for not paying.

I'm a woman and I feel men should have equal rights, there is nothing just about bad decisions made and trying to drag the other party down with you because you aren't mature or humane enough to do the right thing. An early abortion is eliminating a bunch of cells that have no feelings or central nervous system, it isn't formed enough and runs very much like a miscarriage. I don't see how that is worse than knowingly bringing a child into the world to face emotional and financial strife, who will probably be ill prepared for adulthood and most likely experience the brunt of the suffering there with all senses in tact and only themselves to rely on. That isn't right, at all, under any circumstances. Also there is adoption where you can be assured that the child is going into a good, stable home if there is anything preventing someone from abortion.

I mean if you aren't selfless enough to let go of the "what if?" question and consider it grounds to find out that makes your child an experiment who was brought into the world based on attachment. Maybe you could support the child and give it a good home, but should a child be put through that if it ends up you can't provide and should a man be sucked dry financially and possibly be given a criminal record for the inability to pay because of a woman's selfishness and idealism? My opinion is no, I think it's unjust and inhumane personally because I'm one of those accidents and wouldn't wish it on anyone.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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