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Forums > Social Discussion > Cirque in Space - discuss :)

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:So then...

It appears that the billionaire founder of Cirque is travelling into space, at the cost of $35m, to promote the issue of Water for all...

As the writer of this Guardian article suggests... possibly money better spent elsewhere?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/sep/11/lalibert-liberty-water-space

EDITED_BY: _Clare_ (1252685046)


Getting to the other side smile

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: StoneStout, am I missing something or are you seriously suggesting that water issues aren't crucial in the first world

Pretty much, yes. I can appreciate that water issues may be looming on the horizon, especially in your locale, but for the rest of Laliberte's target audience we have little evidence that they're an immediate threat. I'm working on the assumption that the target audience is going to be English speaking ( maybe some French ) living in an urban/suburban setting, because anyone living in a rural area and depending on a well for their water is already well aware about how and when to conserve water.

What's missing here is an explanation of the link between my ( as target audience guy ) conserving water and just how that affects people living in water impoverished areas.

Since Australia is currently experiencing *dry* conditions, would it be a safe to assume that your *average* Australian is already aware of water issues and will benefit little from the message from space ? Locally, when there's a water issue, information is distributed by the local media which IMO is far, far more effective than some artsy blethering from a space tourist.

I'm just not buying his altruistic angle here, and feel that if he really wants to go about improving peoples lives then the $35 million is better spent on his other projects, like helping people in developing countries whose idea of getting water is going down to the river/lake and dipping in with a bucket. Help them out with water purification so they're not drinking the same water they're washing their laundry in.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Fire Tom, its good to see you are listening now thanks Guy. Water is a scarce resource that wont last forever. Obviously people, especially those in the first world, need dumbnuckleing because they still take water for granted. A good example of that is blaming the farmers for growing cotton and raising cattle, and not acknowledging that people wear shirts and eat steak. Did you know a cow can drink over 200 litres of water a day (that's 50 US gallons)? The growing population of humans and cows is also a major reason why water is becoming scarce. Trust me, farmers and politicians will still blaming each other when the well runs dry.

Stout, water issues are looming on the horizon for everyone. Sometimes the artsy stuff works just as well as boring old newsparers. I think his raising humanity's awareness is a step in the right direction because many people, especially people living in an urban/suburban settings, are not aware of how scarce water could become in the near future. I dont think suburban Australians are that much different. I mean, there are still people out there that dont believe in global warming can you believe that? Its a shocker wink

So the important issue for me is water, and Im not that concerned if people think his money could be better spent on say pumps rather than buckets, when we need to protect the aquifer.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Stone, I'll concede that water issues may become far more important in the future than they appear now. Guy is generating a lot of press about his trip and the articles I've looked at show his message is well attached to the trip. I just think that for the $35 million, he could generate more publicity and not look like such a bigshot-telling-us-what-to-do when he himself must be having a hard time conserving.

That's why I mentioned the yacht, and unless they're some sort of recluse, billionaires lead a very consumer oriented lifestyle. I sure would grin

Ummm yea, global warming deniers. My 19 year old niece, one of the English ones, just came out of the closet as a denier and when i asked her why, all I got was "some website" and "everybody knows it's not true". Most other deniers I've met, nay, all of them ( because I've never met a faith based one IRL, all cite the same reasons, a TV show, an article, a website, but whatever the source, it seemed to be enough.

It's an easy way to justify not thinking about the environment in general and allows one to pick and choose their environmental "battles" at whim...like save the grizzlies, or save the big trees while only focusing on one course of human action that threatens these species...say logging.

If you want to go with what he's doing is better than nothing, then I can agree with that. smile


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Stone: IF you would kindly read my post correctly, the magazine NATURE has raised this issue to my awareness about 30 years ago. smile And besides me wearing cotton clothes - I don't eat many steaks wink

It is NOT about raising cattle or growing cotton in general - it is about raising cattle industrially and growing cotton in places where you know you shouldn't. This is not about clean water, this is about high profits.

For one: it is not really likely that the average farmer in the Namibian desert needs a remainder to conserve water. At the same time this farmer might never.... and I mean *ever* hear of "Guy went to space to tell the world about water"....

And those, this message should reach (politicians, lobbyists and farmers) will most likely not buying it.

So IF this gag is to tell the first and second world to conserve water - maybe he should make it public what HIS PERSONAL contribution to water conservation is (other than taking a trip to space and promising to donate money over a few years period). LEAD BY EXAMPLE.

Originally Posted By: Russia TodayRT: Do you feel that there might have been a better way to invest your money into the cause youre fighting for into water- on the Earth rather than going to space?

G.L.: Actually Im spending a lot of money here on Earth beside the price of the trip cost for space. I already have committed $100 million directly to my foundation. And we are raising more money. Already I warn my kids that if I die, 80 % of my fortune will go to my foundation for helping people in need. And I truly believe that the money I spend there will fulfill the personal dream that I have, but it will be great support to commercial awareness of Cirque du Soleil and the awareness I want to create for the water cause in the world. Because if we achieve the artistic goal that I have on my mission, the coverage of that worldwide will be worth much more than the money that Im spending there So I think its a good investment for the cause of water.

So this is serving TWO issues at the same time... not to mention the third: that he's to make a trip to space.

I mean - Guy Laliberte - is this the same Guy here?





However, that's the same Guy with a boat I guess and I understand that looking at the pointing finger is not getting us anywhere wink

The event will be hosting and be hosted by a few celebs and will be displayed in 14 major cities, such as: Montreal, Moscow, Santa Monica, New York City, Johannesburg, Mumbai, Marrakesh, Sydney, Tokyo, Tampa, Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro, Paris, London (and the International Space Station).

Guy - I don't know just how much more "messages" we need over "actions"...

WATER - is NOT a "scarce resource". What are you talking about? it's covering 70% of this planet, it's in a hydrological cycle. CLEAN (potable) WATER is getting scarce - due to the POLLUTION (mostly happening by farmers and industries).

People do eat steaks, because the consumption of meat traditionally is a sign of wealth and meat (along with sugar) is one of the fastest suppliers of energy. They do eat meat, because it is so damn cheap. If your steak would cost you what it really should, you'd have to pay 20 bucks per ounce (because the long term environmental impact should be put on top). It is the same issue as with nuclear energy - if the long term problems would be taken into account, that stuff skyrockets in price.

WATER will still be here after we're long gone.

Guy is not talking about: "stop raising cattle industrially" or "stop unsustainable farming" is he?

I'm not trying to put him down or such. I'm sure he's convinced to do "the right thing" - or at least what he - in his mind - thinks the right thing to be.

I simply don't agree with it.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Whats the purpouse of that video, Tom?

He was playing for charity in that game, not for personal gain... and in that video he lets the other guy off the hook...

Are you trying to say he has lots of money? Because I don't think anyone denied that.



My opinion? He's going to space. Good for him, I'd like to go to space. As Stout said... what he is doing is better than nothing.

I think if we see it as a cause piggybacking on his own personal enjoyment then let him go for it. I'm not going to condemn a man for being full of pomp, thats what cirque is founded on after all, its a pretentious, ostentatious display of incredible skill.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:smile what I'm trying to say is that Guy should rather spend the 35m on ACTIONS down here on earth, rather than trying hard to make US believe that he's putting up with all this for charity alone.

the purpose of that video is not to say that he's got a lot of money - everybody (seems) to know that (now). he's made an exceptional career for a street performer, "who's contribution was playing the accordion and harmonica with a bit of fire eating thrown in"... wink and he's NOT only playing for charity - that is the purpose of this vid... he's got quite a reputation as a poker player... check him out wink

there is not a pinch of jealousy in all that, I say: go dude, live the life(style) you always dreamt of, own big yachts, cars and mansions - no problem. decide to do charity - wow - good on ya. that's already much more than others of his caliber would ever do. thumbs up. no condemnation at all.

but: start by leading with example. stop messaging us when your own actions are speaking the contrary or at least inconsistent. much like: preaching us to conserve and drink water, whilst wasting it and drinking champagne yourself is not going to make you look too good.

bottom line is I feel this guy's just flashing and wants the entire world watch him get off in space (after all: what's all the money and fame good for, if nobody knows you(r face)? wink )


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, fair enough. I agree that what he's doing is better than nothing.

Fire Tom, yes over 70% of the plane is covered in water, but most of it is sea-water, which is full of salt and undrinkable. No only does it kill plants and animals, but it also destroys the soil. I dont see why you are blaming the farmers. It might be a bit of shock, but meat, milk, vegetables and fibre dont just magically appear in the supermarket each day.

You also say you knew about this for thirty years, yet you did nothing, at least this Guy is having a go.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:who tells you that I have done nothing?

STOP harassing me, Stone! For heavens sake, I got ENOUGH of your repeated insults and baseless accusations!

Period!

as I can't IGNORE you - I will now see to the mods to get some distance in between of us.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Personally, I can't see any harassment, insults or accusations in Stone's posts.
I can see some counter-arguments and some debating, but isn't that what a discussion forum is for?

You want distance? Stop posting in the thread. Voila.
Or grow a thick skin and don't take offense from imagined insults in an online discussion thread.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: MNSMy opinion? He's going to space. Good for him, I'd like to go to space. As Stout said... what he is doing is better than nothing.


TBH, what I meant by that is equivalent to awarding an "also ran" ribbon to him. I'm still thinking the hype far outweighs the substance of both the ONE Drop foundation and, especially, the space flight.

Two years from now, I could be eating those word and I gladly will should this whole thing pan out into something impressive. smile


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:And thats all I meant it as, Stout. Its not a lot, but it IS something, and thats undeniable.

Its more than nothing, although not a whole lot.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, what I meant to say previously was fair enough there seems to be a contradiction between his green message and the obscene amount of energy used for a joy flight. And Im not sure that space tourism will be that great for the environment either. Nevertheless, he is bringing an important message to the world in a unique way. Previous projects like the Cirque du Monde would suggest that he has a genuine concern for people and the community.


Apologies Fire Tom, I wasnt trying to hassle you.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Stone: It's only that over the recent period I got a bit short wired when it comes to your (completely baseless) accusations and continuous pinching. I moderated that in the gun thread between you vs. DoppelGanger already and repeatedly asked you to stop it. It's prevalent throughout a number of threads. Also other people are taking offense in your approach (making them take big brakes from HoP altogether)... please, no more name calling and no more baseless accusations (i.e. Obama is NOT Hitler - never said that and you don't know about my habits, etc)... please - respect.

But certainly: Apology accepted< Stone hug smile

back on topic -

This Guy is a lucky lad, no question and I side what Stout says:
this thing develops into something great - I'm all for it.

At this point I can't see much more than a marketing gag for space travel, Guy Laliberte, Cirque de Soleil and .... eventually his One Drop Foundation.

But maybe him being who he is (money, yacht, poker...) maybe he'll touch some people. Maybe they'll close their taps and take a pee while shower... I'm sure this will make a difference... I take a look at the "One Drop" foundation's website... I see one project finished by 65% - that's great.

(MUCH) Better than nothing.

I don't get too much of the messages they are putting forth... What we do is using what is out there, lacking of feasible alternatives. These alternatives have to be provided by the industry and enforced by governments.

However, if you read what they are writing on their website, the fact that clean potable water is getting contaminated and that water is not distributed well enough.

I can't see him living up to his own predicaments: "equal distribution of wealth". He dedicated millions of dollars "sometime in the future" and "warns his children that he will leave 80% of his wealth (or what is left of it) to his organization"... But he spends 35m $ NOW on his space trip... fair enough.

This race has enough people who will be doing good - after they are gone. Lead by example and do good while you are still here (writing that on my own sleeve)

wink

[/could go on and on but this would not help the issue]

[edited for clarity]

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1253626807)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Distribution of wealth is to do with distribution of water.

They're not talking about individual distribution, but rather global distribution... Its also unlikely that those nations in the third world will in our lifetime have the same levels of wealth as the western nations, but I doubt that even if Guy put every penny he's got into a third world nation it would change as much as what needs to change, he'd be better off keeping his assets and contributing toward the infrastructure of the nation.

I personally wouldn't fancy to become so monstrously wealthy but I don't condemn him on it either...


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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:
NEW CALLS FOR ALL-CLOWN SPACE STATION

laugh3


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:Durbs that is awesome smile

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:^_^ smile

I wonder if Guy would be as keen if the mission was going to Mars umm wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:so honestly - how many of you watched?

and how was the worldwide resonance so far?

Sorry that I couldn't - had my very own space(d out) mission to leave India wink

Just wondering


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Nope, but when i checked a couple of days ago it was available on the One Drop website but I have better things to do with two hours.

I was looking for the numbers of people who submitted that they were "making a difference" and expecting a massive increase from the less than 5000 that had committed before the show. Maybe it's the website being hard to navigate, or maybe they changed the site but I couldn't find the totals displayed like they were before the show.

I'll give him this though, his trip sure generated a lot of publicity but most of it focused on him and his clown nose rather than his "mission"


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bumblebeebicycle


stranger


Total posts: 1
Posted:It suggests a whole slew of similar kindly enterprises- Mars Travel for world hunger? Time travel, to fundraise for people on the poverty line?

It warms the cockles of me heart, it does. What a thoughtful chap.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind there being a travelling Space Circus. Even if it does sound a bit like the subject for a bad anime....




EDITED_BY: bumblebeebicycle (1259424834)


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:YES!!!!

how about we but together a huge concert, I'm thinking about 150 bands, maybe host it in 11 locations around the world and we can bring in Al Gore to promote it...and call it "private jets for climate change"

Oh wait...

nevermind


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:why not bombing the moon and then take water from there to refill our tanks?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTomwhy not bombing the moon and then take water from there to refill our tanks?


im sure theres a nobel prize in the making right there grin


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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