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T-S-ASILVER Member
Magic Monkey Juice
252 posts
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet, England (UK)


Posted:
Sorry if this has been done before, I searched but couldnt find anything.

So which do you perfer, ballchains or linkchains?

I had a play around with both in the shop when buying my fires the other day, I went with balls in the end, they seemed to feel much smoother with tangles and orbitals. They just seemed to flow easier too, but they do seem a little rougher on my fingers when wrapping them around my hands to shorten, but other than that I think they win for me.

So do you have any preference? And why?

"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Oval link with good swivels. I'm not big on orbitals and stuff, but they're easier with oval links that have ball bearing swivels.

Ball chain tends to wear with orbitals, all that rubbing on the balls and its a much weaker chain than oval link overall. And I don't like how it pinches fingers when you wrap up, I'm a big fan of wrapping up, in fact my handle is just a length of oval link chain that I wrap my fingers round.

hug


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
yea I'm also more on links than balls for the same reasons... once the balls get wear, the cracked chroming is cutting into the fingers. also for safety - ball chains are not as durable (I reckon).

There is nothing beyond a GOOD oval link (sturdy and smooth to the flesh) with high sea fishing swivels (tuna, marlin, shark).

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


bentforkxGOLD Member
Should I be spinning around my poi, or should my poi be spinning around me???
42 posts
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada


Posted:
My first poi ever were fuzzy tennis balls on ball chain, it was nice, it did the job, and I wore them out!!!
Now I have some twisted oval link chain with AMAZING swivels (from HOP of course), there is no looking back!!!
can't say enough about them, wondering if I can wear them out!!!

Spinning makes the world go round


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
im wondering the same thing - links or balls. im not really into hyperloops, so i dont need the link chain. i like stalls and throws, so i need the chain to be as light as possible reative to the heads and handle.
the HoP ball chains are 90g compared to 250g for the links.

primarily im looking to avoid wobble, which you always get with the heavy chain

anyone used the HoP link chain for throws? how does it fly?

also, anyone ever seen 10mm ball chain? the only stuff ive seen on ebay is silver plated
EDITED_BY: 81LL (1246651053)

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
hmmm, can't answer your question 81LL, yet

I notice that there is a relation between head and chain... If my head's heavy and the chain's light, then it's not fun to play. SAme the other way round... I haven't been able to work out a formula - it's still trial and err...

As to the swivels wear, I use(d) brass swivels on the firepoi - heavy heads make frequent checkups mandatory !

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
im used to using poi with heavy heads - my non-fire ones are stage balls with rope and a heavy ball handle - monkeyfist inside a smaller ball with 2 steel washers for extra weight and swivel.

heads are ~150g, handle ~40g and rope ~15g

they fly great and there are loads of different tricks you can do with em. i hope to put up some vids soon

dont know if the HoP ball chain is 90g each or for both, including handles...
EDITED_BY: 81LL (1246653948)

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
I'm not big on throws but I found oval link flew more predictably than the ball chain. If you play with length and handle weight you should be able to get it to fly basically the same as your unflamey ones.

But you could have them fly in a different way. A lot of the same things can be achievable with a flick but you can get the handle to do an extension with the poi head at the centre, the handle rotating around the poi. smile


Depending on how heavy the head is you can almost point isolate the poi head in a throw.

That is to say, the choice between ball chain and oval link involves a few factors. I'd still prefer oval link for throws because if you twist it one way it falls into itself and becomes somewhat rigid, ball chain will not do that.

That said, ballchain would probably be closer to what you're used to.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1246655828)

hug


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
Originally Posted By: 81LLthey fly great and there are loads of different tricks you can do with em. i hope to put up some vids soon

If HoP would get a penny for every such promise, Malcolm would already dominate the planet.

spank

Tell us when you did it, not that you intend to

wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Son
Depending on how heavy the head is you can almost point isolate the poi head in a throw.



im well familiar with this - not almost, you can isolate the head in a throw - and i like it alot! the way mine are weighted the spin centre is about 3/4 of the length from the handle, so to get those isolations you need to throw across quite hard! looks great tho. it does work easier with lighter handles but i like the weight for other tricks.

i reckon ill go for the ball chain. just to see what its like at least. its only 13 or thereabouts. i have 2 other sets; snakes and double wicks, but no singles that feel like my normals. it has to be done. thanks guys.

and firetom, *rubs injured head* to tease you even more - think diabolopoi. poi tricks inspired by diabolo tricks...smirk its in the early stages yet but hopefully ill get some vids up (it'll be after the EJC) and see what other people can do with em crazy but i promised nuthin!
EDITED_BY: 81LL (1246711538)

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


burning_ninjanewbie
39 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
The ball chains are not safe I can't believe you even thought that it was an intelligent idea, wow it's easy to make things out of them, news flash also means it comes apart easy to and don't give that it tangles up less garbage if your air wraps are tangling your technique is off not your equipment, same with during those super dooper stupid what ever you want to call them loops.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
i dont get ya. are you saying ball chain is safe or not safe?

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Well, I don't agree that its a perfect point isolation because it does bob up and down somewhat, but I'm fairly pedantic, you know?

I believe he was saying its not safe.

It should be ok, but it does require closer inspection of each link after a little time for wear.

Though, one thing... how heavy are your fire heads?? If its in the 150g area I'd probably just outright say to use chain link, I wouldn't want to trust ball chain too far.

hug


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
fair enough. i guess my standards for isolations are lower than yours! (but occasionally it just sits there barely moving for an instant...)

Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Son
I believe he was saying its not safe.


well i read his intro post - hes a big, intense dude and probly swings hard as hell so ball chain wouldnt last long with him. im pretty small and try to be as slow and relaxed as i can.

i was planning on putting pretty huge heads on em, yeah! but given that the HoP shop describes the ball chain as "120 pound strength" and im only 130lb myself i think it should be fine. so long as i keep it relaxed and away from big kerosene-drenched ninjas! wink

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Fair enough, I guess. Keep checking the balls as often as possible, look around where they link to one another, thats where the damage gets done.

You can always pick up some chain from a hardware store or something, dogchains are quite common and cost effective, though the HoP chain is quite a lot thinner than a lot of other chains as well as being strong for its weight but the dogchains will give you a good feel for how oval link flies.

Sure, its extra cost, but if you're as picky about your rig as I am then you'll want to get it right.

hug


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
ive used ordinary, unflattened chain before. steel and brass. both welded. brass is grand for me, coz i dont swing em hard. im hoping the ball chain is a bit smoother on the hands tho, as i dont use finger loops, i grip the chain directly between thumb and index finger all the time (not only when shortened). my index fingers are fairly calloused, and get quite hard if ive been swinging fire regularly...aloe vera is savage for that btw...

cheers everyone for all the advice grin - i gotta try the ball chain ninja . ill post back here after ive gone and built the things
(unless someone comes in with some inspired insight before i get my order in...)

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
I don't use loops either. I wrap the chains around my hands. Ball chain pinches my fingers something chronic. When the chain bends the balls come together to touch one another and skin gets trapped in between. frown

hug


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
hmmm. ill have to watch out for that. i do use handles tho, for weight and a target to aim for when catching. ill at least be able to take breaks from the pinching! you juggle at all, M_N_S? throwing poi is great, much the same as clubs

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


81LLBRONZE Member
pant crafting
97 posts
Location: Ireland


Posted:
Originally Posted By: FireTom

Tell us when you did it, not that you intend to

wink

well i just saw a video of some of the stuff i was on about. seems like other people have been playing around with it...its the linking the poi together round 6.45 in "The Russians Are Coming!" on https://www.playpoi.com/

No air drumming - Bruford could change the timing up so fast you could snap your wrist!


burning_ninjanewbie
39 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
not safe I've seen them fall apart in experienced hands numerous times, it's like using key rings to join chain poi, Not Safe, but thats my personal opinion that comes from what I've seen. When I make poi I get a freind to spot weld links that I'm unsure of, he really does good work and I've never had trouble with breaks or tangles but you also need good chain to do it with

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion


burning_ninjanewbie
39 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
As for the swinging hard as hell comment, there is some truth in that. It's not that I swing hard, I have two speeds slowmo and blindingly quick and I know that means a hell of a lot of centrifugal force applied to the chain but my technique is very refined, I myself have never broken a set of poi but I've had to dodge broken ones on a number of occasions, more so the ball chain but I will admit I have no idea what gauge it was or who made them, but I'll stick to chains thanks.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Sorry for missing your comment up there, 8ill.

I can juggle but I don't juggle poi, my poi don't at current have counterweights.

hug


TideGOLD Member
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
111 posts
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Posted:
On this topic, provided you're not pulling cars or some crazy crap like that, is there a real major disadvantage to ball chains or oval links? I don't want to be getting a new pair of chains on suspicion, and my ball chains are IMPOSSIBLE to tangle mid-spin. They just sort-of roll out of it.

It's not like I'm going to be spinning more than 10 revolutions per second (let alone reach 6 or 7 decently), and the heaviest I can imagine using is the 65mm monkey fists from here, and if I wanted to go heavier I'd probably go for a new set of chains altogether. I'm also not a fan of orbitals.

This statement is false...?


burning_ninjanewbie
39 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
I don't know if you would count it as a major disadvantage but, I do find changing lengths during techniques to be more difficult and uncomfortable on the ball chain/wire.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion


TideGOLD Member
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
111 posts
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Posted:
I find ball chains rather easy to wrap on my hands, and an added bonus I find is that there's no tension when unwrapping because the whole thing is a chain of swivels. Thanks for the answer!

This statement is false...?


burning_ninjanewbie
39 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
I still say if only there was a way to make the stocking/sock poi flamable they're almost heaven to work with

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion


T-S-ASILVER Member
Magic Monkey Juice
252 posts
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet, England (UK)


Posted:
I am still happy with my ballchain, but want to upgrade to larger heads, so I think if I do then I will be going for oval chains for that.

I find the ball chains really easy to use, especially for orbitals. Saying that though I have never tried orbitals with oval chains. Would pval chains with swivles have the same spin time as ball chain, I am sure there is a thread about that somewhere... Off to the search button me thinks. I will say that they do seem rather fragile, but after trying to shorten them, I realised that they are a little tougher than they seem. But I don't doubt oval are more durable.

As Tide says they (ballchain) don't tangle easily... My conclusion thus far = Ball chains are decent for slow spinning with light heads. But I will definitely be upgrading when I get larger heads and weighted handles.

"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"


TideGOLD Member
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
111 posts
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Posted:
That's my plan, as well. I plan to keep my ball chains for my cathedrals and future monkeyfists, but anything larger and I'll be ordering the oval chains.

On a quick note, what's the maximum weight that should be placed on a ball chain? I think somewhere I read 300g or higher is when you should deeply consider oval chains instead of ball chains.

This statement is false...?


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
I'm not big on orbitals, but I prefer oval link(with ball bearing swivels) for orbitals because I can better adjust the length between the head and where the chains meet due to the chains not catching so much on one another.

I tend to find with oval link I might have one slightly longer than the other, resulting in failure, but if I'm using oval link I can adjust for this while sliding into the motion.

I have 160g heads (without fuel) and I wouldn't use ball chain with those.

300g is pretty heavy... the "gorilla fists" are 800g(unfuelled) and the wick is as big as malcolms head.

Do factor in the weight that the fuel will add into the equation.

I prefer to err on the side of caution, but I prefer oval link overall anyway.

hug


TideGOLD Member
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
111 posts
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Posted:
Gorilla fists = lol
If you can weave with those things without breaking your arms, chains and a person who's watching, awesometastic props.

Anyway, I almost completely forgot about factoring fuel! Would you say it's closer to making the (total) weight 1.5 times the weight of the heads or 2.0 times?

EDIT!
I see this as kind-of important, because I like the ball chains and I don't want to unnecessarily abandon them, and I've had bad luck using oval chains of any sort.

EDIT!
I just checked the listed characteristics of the ball chains, it claims to be able to support up to 50ish kilograms.
EDITED_BY: Tide (1248251313)

This statement is false...?


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
That doesn't factor in wear. I haven't yet worked out how much the fuel adds... at a complete guess I'd say 1.5 but i do intend on doing some tests on that at some point.

hug


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