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Forums > Social Discussion > Father Solicits Prostitute for 14 yr old son

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

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Posted:BBC News Link

This is the story of a Man trying to solicit sex for his 14 year old son from a prostitute (who was in fact a police officer under cover) well "asking how much it would cost" actually. It seems to state a fact that what is exceptable seems to have changed in a very short time. How long ago would a father "making his son a man" have been considered fine or even right? 100 years ago? Now the father is to go on the sex offenders register, for trying to solicit sex for a minor.


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Mascot


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Posted:Attitudes have certainly changed. IMO society is really out of whack and irrational about minors and sexual exposure. We really go nuts over this issue for no good reason, anyhting to do with paedophilia or exposure of young people to sex. It's linked into our new mental health obsession and cult of victimhood too.

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R0cketSh1p


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Posted:Well speaking from someone who has been a 14yo boy, if my dad had bought me a prostitute (however odd that may seem) I would have taken full advantage of the situation.

I'm assuming that the father didnt have a video camera or anything on him?


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

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Posted:Well... I don't by any means think its right for the man to have done what he has, it really isn't the kind of thing a kid of 14 should be doing, I have no real contention with the activity, rather the method by which it is attained.

Having said that the sex offenders register is a bit much and I'm not 100% convinced that it should be a legal issue except for one point... The age of consent is 16.

At that age I probably would have taken advantage of it but even now I have slight regrets at how my first encounter went and I can't even imagine what I'd feel if my first time were with a prostitute.


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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

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Posted:Take a look from another perspective: 1 in 4 American women will be raped in her lifetime. 1 in 2 women will be physically or sexually abused. We live in a time where women are widely regarded as being available for sale through prostitution, skin mags, porn or whatever and this really isn't helping with the complete lack of respect that this kind of crap encourages.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

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Posted:The other thing I found strange was that this wouldn't have been illegal in Amsterdam a very short time ago, when the age of consent was a little loser. (Think it's 16 there now).

Eera - Unfortunately I feel that is more a reflection on U.S society than feminist issues. I agree mens attitude to women is still not as good as it should be, but the amount of violent crime perpetuated in the U.S. doesn't help. The fact that the U.S also has legalised prostitution in some states (Nevada & Rhode Island) also probably doesn't help.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

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Posted:Originally Posted By: EeraTake a look from another perspective: 1 in 4 American women will be raped in her lifetime. 1 in 2 women will be physically or sexually abused. We live in a time where women are widely regarded as being available for sale through prostitution, skin mags, porn or whatever and this really isn't helping with the complete lack of respect that this kind of crap encourages.
Hmmm, I find those statistics completely unbelieveable. I would guess that they've come from a charity or pressure group that has specifically designed a study to give skewed results.


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L0s3r_r@v3r
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L0s3r_r@v3r

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Posted:Originally Posted By: SeyeOriginally Posted By: EeraTake a look from another perspective: 1 in 4 American women will be raped in her lifetime. 1 in 2 women will be physically or sexually abused. We live in a time where women are widely regarded as being available for sale through prostitution, skin mags, porn or whatever and this really isn't helping with the complete lack of respect that this kind of crap encourages.
Hmmm, I find those statistics completely unbelieveable. I would guess that they've come from a charity or pressure group that has specifically designed a study to give skewed results.

The problem with the statistics is that some women are very emotional and very vindictive. Many say their ex's "raped them" or abused them just to get back at them for breaking up with them or other reasons. (i.e. cheating or something along those lines)


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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

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Posted:Mynci - granted. It's the whole concept of buying someone to be nothing more than a sex toilet that I find offensive, whether it's legal or not.

Seye - those figures came from an anti-abuse campaign that was run in the US a few years ago, you can prove what you want with statisitics though, sure. A UN commission in 2000 reported that at least 1 in 3 women and girls worldwide will be assaulted in her lifetime. No matter how you look at it, it's still not pretty.

EDITED_BY: Eera (1242699015)
EDIT_REASON: I can't spell


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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

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Posted:
Eera - Unfortunately I feel that is more a reflection on U.S society than feminist issues.[/quote]

It is definitely a reflection of our society - not because our society has an especially heinous view of women, but because our society is peculiar in our treatment of women... Look at all the "harassment" charges at workplaces - oftentimes a company will try to save it's own butt with very strict sexual harassment policies, and pursue action on even a hint of anything untoward. Further, it seems women in general are *far* more likely to report/discuss incidents than men. Certainly men have the physical advantage in a confrontation, but even in a non-physical exchange, the average woman is more likely to come forward about it than the average man - and even if she's prepared to brush it off, often her friends/coworkers/family get so offended on her behalf they encourage her to file a complaint/press charges/whatever. This is all in general, of course, but I think it skews the statistics somewhat.

I'm not saying that women don't or shouldn't have equal rights when it comes to men, but it often appears that women's rights are protected *way* more fiercely, at least here in the USA, than men's. My girlfriend was recently involved in a situation at her work, and she didn't think anything of it, but all her coworkers (male and female) pushed her into speaking up, the company forced her to file a formal complaint, and subsequently fired a good man who had been working there for years and who, with that hanging over his head, now enters a very tough job market. She never once felt threatened or offended, and yet the company was willing to completely uproot this guy's life to "protect" her.

And frankly, a lot of guys get pissed at people who say there's a prevailing negative attitude toward women in this country and make us all out to be a bunch of sex-crazed fiends with nothing better on our minds than using womenfolk as sex-toilets. That's a disgusting accusation and it isn't fair to the *majority* of men who are nothing but respectful and kind.

Mascot - you're dead right about our "cult of victimhood." While certainly victim's rights have not always been spectacular over human history, I really think we may have carried it too far. It is not difficult at all to convince somebody they've been irreparably hurt by something...

L0s3r_r@v3r - thankfully most women are not like this, but that has happened to several men I know, including one for whom it ended with a criminal charge, despite that *everybody* involved believed he was innocent.

I think MNS got it right.... It isn't just so much that the kid would suffer any adverse effects, just that when he got older he might regret that first time.


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zyonchaos


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Posted:Originally Posted By: Mucky just that when he got older he might regret that first time.

To be fair how many of us don't have any regrets about our first time, unfortunately we are not all born great lovers, it takes a lot of practice lol

Seriously though the blame/victim culture that we are living in now, is partly the reason why so many cases of "abuse" are dragged way out of proportion. I believe this is one of them, how do we know that this lad hadnt approached his dad for some fatherly advice, maybe he was scared of having sex incase he (pardon the pun) screwed up in some way. Perhaps his father believed he was doing his son a favour, misguided maybe, but a sex offender hardly.

I really feel sorry for this man, there are far more heinous crimes committed that aren't acted on in time (Baby P for example) that this seems like a waste of the courts time to me when the police could of just given him a severe rollicking.


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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Seye
Hmmm, I find those statistics completely unbelieveable. I would guess that they've come from a charity or pressure group that has specifically designed a study to give skewed results.

What do you believe the real statistics are and what motivation do you believe would be behind such an organisation skewing them?

Originally Posted By: L0s3r_r@v3r
The problem with the statistics is that some women are very emotional and very vindictive. Many say their ex's "raped them" or abused them just to get back at them for breaking up with them or other reasons. (i.e. cheating or something along those lines)


Could you please explain what the relevance of women being "emotional" is to your point?

Similarly, another problem with the statistics is that some men are also very "vindictive". Many also say their exes lie just to get back at them as well and unfortunately too many professionals who women turn to for assistance are consistently of the same opinion.
Therefore, yet another problem with the statistics is that some women won't report rape due to not expecting to be believed for the above reason.

Originally Posted By: MuckyMy girlfriend was recently involved in a situation at her work, and she didn't think anything of it, but all her coworkers (male and female) pushed her into speaking up, the company forced her to file a formal complaint, and subsequently fired a good man who had been working there for years and who, with that hanging over his head, now enters a very tough job market. She never once felt threatened or offended, and yet the company was willing to completely uproot this guy's life to "protect" her.

Whether your girlfriend felt threatened or offended herself is irrelevant. If a company reasonably believes that any employee is causing sexual harassment (which I can only assume is the situation to which you refer) to any of their colleagues, they are quite right to consider them a liability.

As for the news itself: I'm not sure what I think of prostitution, generally. I don't doubt that many who consider themselves "call girls" are happy with their decision, but I highly doubt that the same is the case for those who feel the need to resort to selling themselves on the street - if indeed that is consensual on their part at all.

There can be no confusion about the age of consent though, which has been 16 for 124 years. We don't - and probably never will - know the full facts of this story. The father could have been simply stupid, but on the other hand there could be a darker element behind this. I do wonder what the reaction on this thread would be if the child had been a girl of the same age, and/or her father had approached, for example, one of his own adult friends instead of a prostitute.

This is why I think there should be no differentiation and also why I think the conviction and sentence is correct.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

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Posted:Originally Posted By: zyonchaos
To be fair how many of us don't have any regrets about our first time,


I know I do, but I also know that I would much more regret it if it were with a prostitute. I can't now even fathom the idea of going to one to be honest...

But to get back to the topic at hand...

Originally Posted By: zyonchaosthis seems like a waste of the courts time to me when the police could of just given him a severe rollicking.

What do people think is a decent punishment for such an act?

I don't think equating it to a female and approaching a male friend is quite the same... the male sex drive is known to be much higher and a friend is quite a bit different from a prostitute, there is no chance of collusion with a prostitute (and we especially know this in this case since the prostitute turned out to be a police officer) and that makes a very big difference as far as I'm concerned.

What do people think is a suitable punishment for this? I'd say probably a reasonably hefty fine accompanied by a stern scolding from the judge would be sufficient. He clearly wouldn't be too put out by the loss of funds if he was going to spend it on a prostitute anyway and I'm sure that the money could be put toward some sort of fund that would be desperately in need, something that would be fitting to the crime.


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FireTom


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Posted:I would guess it's a case of wrong understanding about "the duty of being a (good) dad"...

Yet there are so many shades of gray and stereotypes in the whole subject, that it is merely impossible to make a statement, that would NOT offend anyone.

Just not sure how many ppl who go and moralize about (being a) prostitute/s actually ever have been with or talked to one...? I feel there is a lot of projection going on as to what is "morally acceptable for (being) a wo/man"... IMHO anything that is consensual, is matter of two people alone - as long as there is consent...

Funny enough the police is (legally) providing "supply". Wonder whether it'd be legal to place an unlocked car with the key inside, or an open safety locker, or an abandoned suitcase somewhere and checking who's having a go... or place a bag of stash and trace it...

Mind those who ride the horse of morality to judge upon others - and are willingly creating stereotypes...

Spanner: "What do you believe the real statistics are and what motivation do you believe would be behind such an organisation skewing them?"

Not saying you're in that boat, Spanner, only that the first part of your question I can't answer - the second part should be self imminent... First I create a disease - and next I offer the cure... what better way to make a quick buck?

Creative punishment: Make him sweep the floor in a porn shop for 2 months consecutive, or much better: make him help in a shelter for abused children...

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Son
I don't think equating it to a female and approaching a male friend is quite the same...

A friend of the 42 year old father doesn't = a friend of the 14 year old girl.

Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Sonthe male sex drive is known to be much higher

What suggests to you that this was the case with this individual child or that this incident was provoked by the child having a problem with that, rather than the father?

Originally Posted By: =Mother_Natures_Sonand a friend is quite a bit different from a prostitute, there is no chance of collusion with a prostitute (and we especially know this in this case since the prostitute turned out to be a police officer) and that makes a very big difference as far as I'm concerned.

The fact that the "prostitute" turned out to be a police officer is irrelevant to the father's action upon his original intent, but could you please explain - despite the fact that the child would still be under the age at which he'd be deemed able to give consent in both cases - why you believe it wouldn't amount to collusion compared to approaching a friend of his?

Originally Posted By: FireTom
Just not sure how many ppl who go and moralize about (being a) prostitute/s actually ever have been with or talked to one...? I feel there is a lot of projection going on as to what is "morally acceptable for (being) a wo/man"... IMHO anything that is consensual, is matter of two people alone - as long as there is consent...

I know you're not saying I'm "in that same boat", Tom, but I'll answer anyway for clarification: I used to work with a high class call girl (not in the same industry, I hasten to add) in her day job. She seemed very happy with her decision, which is partly the basis of my views above. To the other extreme, there are apparently many recent incidences of large groups of women being promised travel and documentation to enter the UK whereas they are actually being trafficked in for prostitution to pay back that debt and then some, so against their will.

Originally Posted By: FireTomFirst I create a disease - and next I offer the cure... what better way to make a quick buck?

How would a charity or pressure group benefit financially from this?
I won't claim to know about the situation in the USA, from where these statistics have been questioned, but here, charities are very well regulated by law. In general, these groups don't charge victims for their services and as victims in some parts of the UK have to travel the best part of 100 miles for support - and goodness knows what it must be like for whole countries of victims in which rape is effectively legalised/decriminalised - it's obvious skewing statistics for government funding just wouldn't work anyway.
I understand the idea of "cash for questions" and similar affairs but I simply don't believe that rape is one of those issues which attracts that kind of corporate gain.

Originally Posted By: FireTom
Creative punishment: Make him sweep the floor in a porn shop for 2 months consecutive, or much better: make him help in a shelter for abused children...

I'm not sure his son should have been even allowed to remain living with him, as he is on the sex offenders register, which also means that being allowed to work with children is highly unlikely if not completely out of the question.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

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Posted:Originally Posted By: SpannerOriginally Posted By: Seye
Hmmm, I find those statistics completely unbelieveable. I would guess that they've come from a charity or pressure group that has specifically designed a study to give skewed results.

What do you believe the real statistics are and what motivation do you believe would be behind such an organisation skewing them?

I dont want to get into this argument too deeply but I think its a simple case of a study that has been designed to give a headline grabbing figure. Every charitable organisation wants publicity for its cause and most will do anything to get it. We've all seen the "4 billion people will die tomorrow!" style headlines about global warming.

I would guess that the figures are MUCH lower than that. If not then the US has got massive problems. If the real figure was 1 in 20 I'd still be quite shocked.

The horrendous psuedo-science and invented numbers coming from supposedly trustworthy bodies (which seems to have reached epidemic proportions recently) makes me feel sick.
Unfortunately a lot of charitites now believe that their message is a product that has to compete with Nike and Z-list celebrity culture for people's attention.
And, as we all know, fear sells.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Spanner
A friend of the 42 year old father doesn't = a friend of the 14 year old girl.


I never said it did. I'll address this point lower as I address something else you've said.

Originally Posted By: Spanner
What suggests to you that this was the case with this individual child or that this incident was provoked by the child having a problem with that, rather than the father?



It was stated that this was "out of character" for the defendant. I'm sure its not such a wild statement to say that the 14 year old would have been interested in sex... its a part of the male condition, sadly.

I'm not saying that it was necessarily the case with the boy and I'm not saying that it wouldn't also be the case with a female, but we've got to admit that its much, much more likely a case with a male than with a female.

Regardless, my next point was the one that held more weight.

Originally Posted By: Spanner
The fact that the "prostitute" turned out to be a police officer is irrelevant to the father's action upon his original intent, but could you please explain - despite the fact that the child would still be under the age at which he'd be deemed able to give consent in both cases - why you believe it wouldn't amount to collusion compared to approaching a friend of his?

col⋅lu⋅sion

noun
1. a secret agreement, esp. for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him.

The collusion I referred to was collusion between the two adults. The father was not looking to engage in the act with the child, nor was he colluding to have one of his friends engage in the act with the child...

I stated that I didn't think it right because he was under the age of consent, but I don't believe he had any sinister intent and as such I feel that a sex offenders register is very much overkill.



To Tom... I have no real issue with prostitution on a general scale. I'm liberal to the most extreme in a political sense, my commentary on prostitution was from a standpoint that I quite simply would never use the services, I didn't mean to make any moralisation. (Not that I'm implying you said I did, just clarifying)

EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1242825455)
EDIT_REASON: quoting error


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FireTom


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Posted:MSN/Spanner, thanks for the clarification. I didn't "aim" at anyone specifically however....

Spanner: However do I get you right that you would rather see father and son being separated after this incident? You know any of them personally, have witnessed their appearance in court or know anyone who knows anyone who did? Do you have any reliable source that indicates any further background into this story other than the brief BBC news feed?

If so, could you please share your insight?
If no... what exactly makes you come to the opinion that due to this (isolated) incident the two should be separated... ?

And Originally Posted By: SpannerIt was stated that this was "out of character" for the defendant. I'm sure its not such a wild statement to say that the 14 year old would have been interested in sex... its a part of the male condition, sadly.

That indicating being interested in sex would be "part of the male condition"? Sadly? confused2 I don't get what you mean with that statement, could you please clarify?


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Mother_Natures_Son
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Mother_Natures_Son

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Posted:Woop! That was MY point, FireTom... Thanks for pointing it out, I made an error in quoting, I forgot to end quote.

Do you need me to clarify or does it being in context of my views clarify it enough??

EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1242825513)


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FireTom


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Posted:Thanks for clearing this up, MNS...

I still find vast generalisations and reckon that the whole topic is quite suitable for one more heated (online)debate...

Personally I could think of a few possible scenarios:

1) the guy just wanted to do a bad joke, while passing the officer. The officer took this seriously and booked him.

2) indeed the guy was trying to solicit a prostitute for his teenage son - in this case I can't say much as I don't know about the character of those involved. It's been stated that such (poor) choice would not be in line with the rest of the fathers personality and character. I have no reason to assume otherwise. Propably the guy was just incapable of handling the situation "omg, my son is becoming interested in sex and I don't know really what to do"... maybe his father did it this way.

To me it is rather an example of the challenges a parent faces, raising their children - which in turn should receive compassion and maybe got thought over as to what more skillful ways of educating a 14yr old teen about "having sex" would be out there. Maybe the guy found porn mags in the possession of his teenage son, maybe maybe maybe. But who am I to ride the horse of morality, wave the sword of judgement (without knowing anything about the background) and demand that the guy should be separated from his son. I really need to trust in the judges capacity, because already branding this guy as a "sexual offender" - to me - appears steep.

3) the guy was trying to buy a prostitute for his son and wanted to watch them - in this scenario indeed they should be separated (IMO). But there is nothing at this point that would indicate anything like that. Nothing really that would make the guy "inappropriate working with children"...

Certainly a prostitute is not what I would recommend for anyone - no matter whether s/he's forced into the trade, chose it freely or coming from whatever circumstances. I'm not comdemning prostitution or prostitutes - jsut to clear this up.

If prostitution is illegal in that district, I really wonder why this police officer was posing as one. IMNSHO this is on the border of being legal. How about cops offering narcotics (in parks or wherever) and then booking people for trying to aquire some. IMNSHO police (as representatives of the government) is not to put themselves on the same level as criminals. If prostitution in fact is legal in thsi district, STILL I would ask what this officer was doing there...

Anyway thanks for reminding me, why I left SD some time ago. Loads of projections and readymade opinions about nearly anything. As long as it's for the sake of discussing itself, it's fine... wink

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to rephrase my opinion on the fly by meditate

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1242885823)
EDIT_REASON: poor phrasing


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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Seye
I dont want to get into this argument too deeply but I think its a simple case of a study that has been designed to give a headline grabbing figure.

That's understandable, as it works both ways: having mentioned countries where rape is effectively legalised/decriminalised, if one of them quoted a low figure, I'd be skeptical too.

Originally Posted By: Seye
I would guess that the figures are MUCH lower than that. If not then the US has got massive problems.


Not exclusively, as the figures are the same as the results from similar studies undertaken in the UK.

Quote:And, as we all know, fear sells.

If that's so, why do rape charities insist on exploding myths about rape rather than perpetuating them?

Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Son
col⋅lu⋅sion

noun
1. a secret agreement, esp. for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him.

The collusion I referred to was collusion between the two adults. The father was not looking to engage in the act with the child, nor was he colluding to have one of his friends engage in the act with the child...


In attempting to solicit someone who he reasonably believed to be a prostitute, he presumed he was colluding with another adult.

Originally Posted By: FireTomYou know any of them personally, have witnessed their appearance in court or know anyone who knows anyone who did? Do you have any reliable source that indicates any further background into this story other than the brief BBC news feed?

If so, could you please share your insight?


If I'd been in court, I'd only be able to report as much as the media is allowed, due a minor being involved.

What I'd rather see is no discrepancy between ordering someone to sign the sex offenders register and allowing a child to live with one. There are reports of the case including additional information widely available - which may aid you in categorising the event under one of the scenarios you outline - but they don't change my views because I believe that if judges cannot make exceptions regarding registering someone as a sex offender based on the evidence, they shouldn't make exceptions regarding the resulting issue of a sex offender having contact with a child based on mere consideration of their own supplementary appearance or character defence in court.

Originally Posted By: FireTom
If prostitution is illegal in that district, I really wonder why this police officer was posing as one. IMNSHO this is on the border of being legal.


Prostitution itself isn't illegal, but solicitation is. Entrapment would be illegal as the officer would've encouraged the father to encourage the crime, but he initiated this himself.


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FireTom


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Posted:thanks for the insights above, Spanner.

does a charitable organisations pay for its employees? (and I think they should)... but whatever the answer to that might be - I am not indicating that rape and sexual exploitation would be no topic worth acting for - vice versa. all I'm saying is that some organisations are using fear and paranoia as means to keep themselves alive.

I understand you stance on a child being ordered to live with a sexual offender - hence I am saying that only under extreme circumstances the guy should have been put on that list. I understand that the judge is taking a slippery slope and might even create a precedent case - agree on that one.

Again: Not saying what the guy did is right, only further clarification: the age of consent generally being 14? Or is it 16 when there is an adult involved.

Prostitution is legal but solicitaion is not... ??? Is quite similar to: drugs are legal but their solicitation, possession and consumption is not. I understand that it's in the attempt to criminalize the wooer rather than the fancy lady, but that can go rather twisted ways.

And you would definitely say that it's much wiser for a parent to say: son/daughter, where you get your sexual desire satisfied is none of my business.


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Seye
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Seye

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Posted:Again - I dont want to get too far into this debate really but...

I am always very wary of any statistics that are put infront of me. If it seems unbelieveable it probably is. One story that springs to mind is a highly quoted article about a 100% rise in the incidence of cocaine use amongst 15 year olds in the UK. This comes from a journalist reinterpreting figures from a fairly innocuous questionnaire that is given to a random selection of school children every year that asks if they have taken a, b, c, (etc) in the last year. Last year one said yes. This year 2 said yes. The error margin in such a report is enormous. Any of the children could have lied. If I remember correctly the study is carried out on over 10,000 children. So assuming that many the rise was actually 1 in 10,000 or 0.01% of the population. The year previous to the year where 1 child said that they had tried cocaine (if my memory serves me correctly) showed 4 positive answers in this field. This would make a count of 2 lower than the mean of the 3 years.
Unfortunately the headlines read "Twice as many kids on coke". While this may be statistically true (if a little vague) it is highly misleading.

I cannot possibly comment on the specific validity of the "1 in 4 women" claim. I would need the method statement and results from the individual study for that.
All I am saying is that it does not seem to match my experience of the world around me. That simply leads me to question it further.

As for "perpetuating myths" - I'm not sure that is done intentionally very often at all. Instead my understanding is that people perpetuate ideas that they "believe to be true". Whether this is through blind faith, a lack of understanding or any other reason is down to the individual.

For example - I think that homeopaths believe that they are helping to make people better even though no experiment has ever proven that infinitely small quantities of supposedly good stuff dissolved in unimaginably large quantities of water can perform better than a similarly administered placebo.

Now I've written a really long and very boring post about statistics I'm going to end by awarding myself the following smiley... offtopic


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:nicely put, Seye hug

- to rephrase my question: what reasonable alternatives (PG please) would you be able to offer to that guy? - who obviously has been overstrained with this topic...

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1243512923)
EDIT_REASON: PG status added ; )


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Originally Posted By: Spanner
In attempting to solicit someone who he reasonably believed to be a prostitute, he presumed he was colluding with another adult.


You could say its still collusion, but then its collusion that involves the child as well, rather than a secret agreement that the child is not privy to.

It is not set up for the sexual gratification of the prostitute and that makes a big difference, don't you think?


hug

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