Page:
YorkshireSILVER Member
newbie
33 posts
Location: Springfield, MO in the county of Greene!!!, USA


Posted:
My buddy is like a one handed master, so the other day I had him do a trifoil single handed! I too just started doing these, and I gotta say, I've never seen anyone do anything so jaw dropping! We're gonna try to learn to do it with both hands! Now that would be truly amazing!

duvanancient oachkatzlschwoaf
248 posts
Location: germany


Posted:
this sounds truly epic.
would you mind to put up a video? smile

YorkshireSILVER Member
newbie
33 posts
Location: Springfield, MO in the county of Greene!!!, USA


Posted:
That's what my original plan was until my laptop crashed, the one I'm on now is completley shot! I can't even open my pics folder on this one! But yes, I'll get this figured out! The world must see how ridiculously insane this move really is!

DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
My friend Aeons has done it. I think Mike Icon has done it. I heard he can at least do Zan's diamond one handed. I would love to see a video demonstration of it or even a tutorial.

CyrikBRONZE Member
newbie
32 posts
Location: Poland


Posted:
really cool move smile gratz for doing it - it's really hard both trifoil and Zan's diamond (one handed wink - if anyone has got a vid of those moves upload them please smile

Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Looks like I'm behind on terminology.

Trifoil as far as I was concerned just meant 3 petals.

Are you speaking of a polyrhythmic BF trifoil antispin hybrid??
(one poi doing trifoil antispin and the other doing extension)

And whats this diamond? Is it the diamond you get when you point isolate the petals in a 4 petal antispin flower?

hug


DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
No, Zan's diamond is a pattern created by using a combination of vertical, diagonal, and horizontal linear extensions with the poi in opposite direction, hands same time. He does it in Poi Transmission: Spinning in Arizona at 0:23:


It is vertical up-diagonal left-horizontal right-diagonal up-vertical down-diagonal right-horizontal left-diagonal down.

Yeah, trifoil just means three petals in my world too. They seem to be using an abbreviated reference to the antispin-extension hybrid. Side question, are there any hybrids which are not polyrhythmic?

Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Ahh yes, that thing. That too can be viewed as a series of point isolations. A series of point isos leads to a linear iso. That pattern is fun to think about.

Yeah there are hybrids that arent polyrhythmic.. the first thing to be labelled a hybrid (iso/extension around a unit circle) isn't polyrhythmic.

I have another one that is way too difficult to describe in words thats not polyrhythmic.

That trifoil thing done with a cateye instead of trifoil isnt polyrhythmic either.

hug


chemairoSILVER Member
person who like to spin all gears
62 posts
Location: Germany - Dsseldorf


Posted:
I try it out, but the only thing I get was an Cateye vs. Extensions Hybrid, I think I have to go out - try it out and put up a video so I could be one of the first doing this

DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
check out Alien Jon's unit circle hybrid simulations

DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
SwayingDaisies, I want a video demonstration of what you're talking about with the point isolations.

Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
DyamiTK, I don't suppose that

would be enough?

Its an extended cateye, but its also point isolated for a moment there. You could claim its a stall from which you come out in the same direction you went in on as well.

The diamond would probably be more easily understood as a series of stalls than point isos.

It IS a linear isolation, you're right and it was different from the linear isolation I was thinking of was this one.

If you look at the video of it drawing the pattern you can actually imagine the diamond coming into being... just imagine that the point isolation continues for an extra quarter of a beat or so, meaning that it will come across the centre.

From there you can do a cateye extension and send it straight back or you can lapse back into the 'astroid' pattern which would create the diamond if you were to add the extra quarter of a beat at the next point in the diamond.



HAH! I only just realised you called me by my Youtube name.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1239149036)

hug


DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
Ah ha, perfect! we are having a terminology conflusteration. What the Alien is calling a linear isolation in that video, Mr. PineapplePeat calls a line isolation -


I suppose they are both linear isolations but I think of a linear isolation more specifically as the hands moving in a line and the poi heads moving in that weird ellipse pattern that linear head isolations make. Where as the "line isolation" as in Jon's video you posted is the other way around.

That is besides the point. What Zan is doing are not linear isolations at all, they are linear extensions. This is what Zan is doing:

The line/linear head isolation like your are talking about are a totally different effect.

If you go back to Alien Jon's Unit Circle Grid:

, a vertical linear extension is the second point, horizontal linear isolation is the fourth point, vertical linear extension is the sixth point and horizontal linear extension is the eighth point.

Now watch Zan's Dimond again keeping in mind that is is a pattern created by combining vertical, horizontal, and diagonal linear extensions:

He does at the 0:23 min mark with a nice graphic over it.

When you figure out how to make a diamond pattern with linear point isolations I expect a video. smile

you can just call me dyami.

DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
and dude, your asteroid thing is really just a antispin because the hand is moving in a circle not a line. it is deceptive because there are no petals and our poi brains get confused.

Side note, in a linear (hand) isolation there is a moment of point isolation but in what I and Pineapple refer to as line isolation or rather a linear head isolation that same point isolation moves rather then being static as with a true full point isolation where the head becomes completely static and the hand moves (really fast) in a full 360 circle around it.
EDITED_BY: DyamiTK (1239218141)
EDIT_REASON: spellling

Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Hi, Dyami, this is going to be a fairly rambly post... actually I know it is because I've already written it, so sorry about that.

Further misunderstandings! smile Should be cleared after this post, I hope.

Watch the head in Jons video, thats what I was referring to more than the hand, but I see how with my error on Zans Diamond you could get that idea, the same effect can be done as an extended cateye, which is what petes line isos are about.

You're right about Zans diamond, I hadnt watched it properly and presumed it was similar to the line isos I've been playing with. The pattern over the top made me think he was doing something else... and it IS possible... petes got a demonstration of part of it in the vid you linked to.

#t=2m0s If you repeat that SAME pattern by doing it in the top left then you'll get the next part of your diamond.

Originally Posted By: DyamiTKand dude, your asteroid thing is really just a antispin because the hand is moving in a circle not a line. it is deceptive because there are no petals and our poi brains get confused.

The one demonstrated isnt quite a line iso, but it can be done as a line iso with more perfect quarter point isolations, its about the poi moving on a line... which as you can see it is, its creating a box!

#t=0m20s there it is done in butterfly. (poorly... but with light it doesnt matter because the heads are big enough to cover up the slight deviations)

Watch petes vid again... his hands move on a cateye in most of them which is a 1:1 ratio(1 revolution of the poi:1 revolution of the arm/hand) antispin pattern.

The asteroid is simply a line isolated 3:1 ratio antispin pattern. It just makes 4 seperate line isolations to create a single pattern. They move along a line rather than trace a loop, do they not?

And earlier I was referring to quarter turns of point iso, to send it back along the same line you'd use a half turn of point iso.

hug


DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
Phew! that is a lot of information to visualize and my familiarity with cat-eyes and linear head isolation patterns is still fuzzy. I think the broader class of movement we are uncovering here are various ways of tracing diamond patterns, and I will definitely be playing around with that concept some more.

Yes, I follow now what you are talking about with your point isolation diamond. That asteroid thing misled me. That is a cool pattern, some of my friends here in Santa Cruz will get a kick out of that. It's also great because the joke at FireDrums after Zan taught us all his diamond was that in poi, squares are the new circles.

we kind of hijacked the One Handed Trifoil thread... should we maybe and is there any easy way to move this to more of a Linear Isolation discussion thread?

Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Its nothing new, really, its just another way of seeing the line isos that have been 'floating' around for a little while now.



Yeah, we did stray slightly off topic, hey?

Theres this thread here [Old link]

That looks to actually be pretty good and i dont think we REALLY uncovered much here that hadnt already been discussed there.

hug


YorkshireSILVER Member
newbie
33 posts
Location: Springfield, MO in the county of Greene!!!, USA


Posted:
I found a vid with the move on it! Check out the vids section of the site and look up 'Mel tech poi'. It's called me and my shadow. This dude is sick with the tech poi! He does the move at around 9:54 into the video. Enjoi!

johndhaiveGOLD Member
Kebab Embalmer
316 posts
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philippines


Posted:
I'm playing with triquetras now and I still couldn't figure out how to make a perfect one. I can execute the move but when I try to get a picture of it either the circle is too big or the 3 petal flower is in the far right side or sometimes in the far left and sometimes the circle is too small. My left hand is doing the big circle (long arm, however you call it) going clockwise and the right hand is the one doing the 3 petal antispin. I mean, everytime, the pic is just messy. hehehe! grin

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Try learning to change directions and do it both reverse and forwards butterfly.

That'll help out your spatial awareness a bit.

hug


johndhaiveGOLD Member
Kebab Embalmer
316 posts
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philippines


Posted:
Alright thanks!

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!


DyamiTKGOLD Member
beginner forever
159 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA


Posted:
I think if you want to make a "perfect" triquetra, you need to keep your hands next to touching the whole time (hands same time).
And I agree that the coordination of being able to go all four direction variations will help (overhand CW, overhand CCW, underhand CW, underhand CCW). Being able to do the hand same time, poi opposite direction CAP will help too:

.

johndhaiveGOLD Member
Kebab Embalmer
316 posts
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philippines


Posted:
CW? CCW? confused not that good with abbreviations... grin

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Clockwise, counter clockwise. He's referring to the way your arms go.

Also, try doing it poi going same direction and ARMS going in opposites. smile You can then use it to go into the original iso-extension hybrid by changing the direction of one arm (Easiest if you put your hands together at the bottom have them go up the sides and when the reach the top change direction then.) as well as any other same direction hybrid you care to think of. smile

hug


johndhaiveGOLD Member
Kebab Embalmer
316 posts
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philippines


Posted:
There you go. Will try that one out. Thanks much! grin

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!


johndhaiveGOLD Member
Kebab Embalmer
316 posts
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philippines


Posted:
Hey MNS, is that the one on your Cateye, ISO extension video? I'm using Alien's CAP's as reference for the poi rotations and use your video as my hand reference. Everything's doing good now. I can manipulate one CAP to another CAP and link it into the triquetra. Thanks for the tips you guys.

By the way, when you say One handed Trifoil? What do you mean? Is it like a one hand/single poi 3 petal anti-spi flower? Or one hand/2 poi doing triquetra? Coz that would be freaking awesome! bounce2

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!


CyrikBRONZE Member
newbie
32 posts
Location: Poland


Posted:
you can see that trick on Melancholic new vid - it's in the video area

2 poi in one hand, one big wheel secound one 3 petal antispin smile

Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Nope, in that one arms move same direction and so do the poi. smile

The one I referred to was arms opposite, poi same direction, one antispin, one prospin.

hug


astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
I think I do that one from time to time. It feels cool.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


johndhaiveGOLD Member
Kebab Embalmer
316 posts
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, Philippines


Posted:
Oh you mean like this?

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!


Mother_Natures_SonSILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!


Posted:
Yep! You can do it with any number of beats of either hand with different polyrhythms.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1241013714)

hug


Page:
HOP Newsletter
Sign up to get the latest on sales, new releases and more...