Forums > Social Discussion > Bad parenting - blame everybody else but yourself?

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:What is that supposed to mean? "Bad parenting"...

IMHO it is too easy to simply blame everybody else for turning into a brat..

IMHO every parent (usually) does what they believe to be right and the best...

What is "bad parenting" - other than a lame excuse from those who never had to raise a child on their own...

wink

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1229880082)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete Topic

MRC
MRC

Funky Blessings Daily

Member Since: 17th Jun 2008
Total posts: 215
Posted:Ya know...Blaming everyone else is one of the hallmarks of bad parenting. When a parent blames TV, movies or games for their child's turn-out.

I think bad parenting is not showing your children consequence. Yes every parent does what they think is right, but does that really make it good?


Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Hmm.

Every parent does what they believe to be right and the best, just as every non-parent does.
Whether that is good, or right for their child is another matter.

Most of us probably know at least one stereotypically great parent whose kids have gone off the rails. It's not necessarily that the parents have done anything "wrong", other than maybe not having realised what to do - or what not to do - and when. But no kid's born with an instruction manual.

While there's never an excuse for child abuse, there's such a wide range of factors (cultural, economic etc.) unique to a family's situation and their history which influence parenting decisions that it's often not as black and white. What's good for one may be bad for another and vice versa.

It's not only non-parents who throw "bad parenting" around though: whether they're correct or not, it's often fellow parents who are the harshest critics.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I looked up the definition of parent to make my decision on this.
As a noun it simply means the source of origin.
As a verb it means to rear and nurture.

I am taking this all from the verb definition. This means that a person must be active in their childs life in a nuturing and caring manner to be bad.

From this definition, I whole heartedly believe in bad parenting.
My sister is a wretched parent.

There are *many* forms of bad parenting.

The person who sends a check and a card but is never around is a bad parent.

The parent who believes might makes right, and beats their child is a bad parent.

The parent who neglects a child to work all the time, saying they are doing it for their child, to me, is a bad parent.

The parent who allows teachers, video games and tv to raise their children, thus not taking responsibility themselves, is a bad parent.

However, we also must realize that children are a product of everything nature and nurture, and they are their own being capable of knowing their own minds and acting as such on it. If a child makes bad choices it is not that s/he was raised by bad parents. There needs to be much more investigation into a situation to determine what it would mean to be bad.

I also think there are tonnes of grey areas. I'm not a perfect parent but lords know I've screwed up...lots, and when I have I have always taken responsiblity for it and apologised when/where I needed to.
I think more parents need to do that as well.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

railspinner
railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada
Member Since: 8th Oct 2008
Total posts: 99
Posted:Id say a bad parent is one that doesn't meet the best of their knowledge and abilitys to raise a kid. Doesn't try to expand their knowledge and abilitys if they know they are insufficient. I certainly turned out a pretty messed up kid, my parents did everything they could for me, they weren't bad parents it wasn't their fault.

bad parents are one thing. Their is also terrible parents, who mean harm for their children, these people are monsters and some of the worst people born on this earth. I don't mean people who physically discipline their kids but beat their kids, molest them, abandon them at an inappropriate age, let people into the kids lives they know are molesting or hurting them etc..


EDITED_BY: railspinner (1230012541)


The less people know the more they believe

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: Pele
The person who sends a check and a card but is never around is a bad parent.

Apart from that child abuser who thankfully never gets close to her/his child?

Originally Posted By: =PeleThe parent who believes might makes right, and beats their child is a bad parent.

Apart from that parent who gets (physically) abused by their children?

Originally Posted By: PeleThe parent who neglects a child to work all the time, saying they are doing it for their child, to me, is a bad parent.

Apart from that parent who is (factually) poor and tries to earn for a proper education of their children?

Originally Posted By: PeleThe parent who allows teachers, video games and tv to raise their children, thus not taking responsibility themselves, is a bad parent.

Apart from that single mum/dad, who has to earn a living to support her/himself AND the children AND their education?

Originally Posted By: PeleHowever, we also must realize that children are a product of everything nature and nurture, and they are their own being capable of knowing their own minds and acting as such on it. If a child makes bad choices it is not that s/he was raised by bad parents. There needs to be much more investigation into a situation to determine what it would mean to be bad.

I also think there are tonnes of grey areas. I'm not a perfect parent but lords know I've screwed up...lots, and when I have I have always taken responsiblity for it and apologised when/where I needed to.
I think more parents need to do that as well.


Now that much more reflects my stance. Remember in that moment where (in retrospect) you made a mistake? Were you truly able to act any different? And if "yes", why haven't you? Did you really act against better knowledge (and you inner truth), if "yes", why so?

IMHO everybody acts according to their inner truth, the only "mistake" (as to my definition) occurs when acting against better knowledge/ inner truth.

Coining events as "good" and "bad" is part of the mind, of the individual ego to determine and judge. When I've been a child, I thought it's bad, that my mother sent me to bed at 8pm... now, looking at parents who let their children stay up late, until they tip over (and eventually hurt themselves) I do have a more discerning view on (the actions of) my mother.

I could come up with a list of actions, decisions and events, that could accuse my parents of being "bad parents"... and in the past I did. Now I do understand more about the human nature, life and my self - which leads me to one thing: wanting to forgive my parents all the mistakes they did -- and asking forgiveness for all the mistakes I did.

The more access I get to my childhood memories, I find gruesome mistakes of my family towards me - later (or even at the same time), I did pay them back every single penny of it.

"The blame game" (IMO) is to stay in the cycle of victimization. Because ultimately I'm a mere victim of victims. Only if I can clearly see (and forgive) these actions, I'll be able to change something and not to repeat (or to pass) them (on).

A great deal of honesty (towards yours self) is necessary in this process...

**********************************************************************
You're just jealous, because the voices are only talking to ME wink
**********************************************************************


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:So Tom, why do you ask for peoples opinions only to turn around and insinuate they are wrong? They are not, that is the nature of *opinions*, they can not be.

Having been a single, having been homeless and dirt poor, and under investigation for an abuse I did not commit, mother I know what I am talking about.
Having been a foster child, who grew up around many other foster children, who was removed from a home on the basis of neglect and abuse, these are where my opinions come from.
Having been a teacher of children with behavioural (as well as medical) disorders, some of which stemmed from abuse, neglect and poverty, I am not unaware.

You asked for my opinion, which is based on what I know, what I've seen and what I've experienced. I thank you not to belittle it and attempt to tell me I am wrong, which is what you implied.


I do not personally for one second believe that every action we take is based on an inner truth. If we did, more people would be following their dreams instead of being devoured by the grind. Should we is a whole different discussion.
The young, above all, do not have this yet. They struggle to find it, to find "right" and "wrong" to find harmony and to please everyone. They act according to many, many influences, having not yet determined what is true to them and their path, or even what their path is.

Not all absent parents are violent. They are just absent. One of my ex's and I broke up because while he was a good and loving man, he couldn't understand how not being around for his child was bad. When his child didn't recognise him, he felt betrayed, yet he created that.

A parent being abused by a child isn't a bad parent, as long as they are trying to get the child help. That is a very broad insinuation you made.

There is *never* an excuse to allow tv and games to raise your child, especially if you can afford them. They aren't cheap, so if you can afford them, you can afford the time off work to spend with your child.
Part of the "affording education" is definately applicable only in certain places. Here, up until uni, it's free. My sons free education is fantastic and better than the bought-for-private education my niece received that put her way behind the (free) state regulated schools.

Kids *need* their parents to be present, of mind and body. I maintain, if you are never there, then it is poor parenting, regardless of the reason it breeds resent and contempt. The only time I make this exception is for illness, though it still is likely to breed resentment and contempt, and fear.
If a parent can not be there physically, then through continual communication and reinforcement (not paid for in gifts) is necessary. Sadly, over-worked parents tend to not do this either, being caught up in their exhaustion.
It's a wretchedly horrible catch 22.

EDITED_BY: Pele (1230323179)
EDIT_REASON: spelling...whoops! ;)


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Originally Posted By: PeleSo Tom, why do you ask for peoples opinions only to turn around and insinuate they are wrong? They are not, that is the nature of *opinions*, they can not be.


I might have it wrong, but the idea I got was that he was using your opinions to reflect his own views.

Originally Posted By: FireTom
Now that much more reflects my stance.


hug

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:MNS, if you keep it in context you'll see it's only part of it he agrees with (which is fine). That is the part he opts to discuss.
The part he disagrees with he put up "what abouts..?" instead of discussing it, which is a passive-agressive way of attempting to tell someone they're wrong.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Perhaps I'm being too optimistic then. ^_^

hug

Delete

Brenn
Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 28th Jun 2004
Total posts: 3286
Posted:Being neither a parent there's little I can see here, but it's very easy for us non-parents to tut tut and say "they should be doing xyz". Heck, it's easy for other parents to also tut tut and say the exact same thing, but every child's upbringing is different. Different parents, different social values, different events occurring in peoples lives. There is no one sure-fire way of bringing up children that will suit every instance.

Granted, there are parents who are more passionate about raising their children than others, and parents will use different means to justify their love for their children (whether it's skipping a promotion to 'spend time' with their children or working harder to give something their child wants i.e. flying lessons). Almost any argument can be put forward to say that it is bad parenting.


ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Each child then has different needs...

hug

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Pele, one of the reasons I recently find discussions (on this board) boring is that ppl take insult, where there actually has not been any intent of such.

I'm simply stating my personal opinion, same as you. Certainly I have no reason to elaborate further where I find no common denominator (at this time).

You're entitled to your opinion, personally I just know that at times it's better to have no contact with a parent rather than being subject to abuse. You may/not agree with that - I simply tried to put your points in a different context.

On which model are you basing a persons actions and behavior (if not on that of "personal truth")?

And when it comes to education, we might have a completely different view on what's a "good education". Personally I have rarely come across one public education that I can term that. Starting from the very chairs these children have to sit on, going further to the teachers' (education) and the subjects taught to the method of teaching (competitive rather than teamwork). Certainly some models are more progressive than others - but the general approach to education is rather that of a poor standard.

Further you might take into account that the US is only (say) 300.000.000 ppl and that the western countries altogether might only represent a sixth of the current worlds population.

So again - I don't insinuate that your opinions are wrong - I simply add my personal views to them (which in turn might not be "right" to other ppl).


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Brenn
Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 28th Jun 2004
Total posts: 3286
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonEach child then has different needs...

Precisely.


ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Tom, you were not in fact expressing an opinion. If you were, you would have done so in a conversational manner, as you have in other cases where you find no common denominator. What you were doing is very passive aggressive, and is actually one of the problems we have been seeking to solve, by having people be more elaborate in their opinions.

Education covers many portions of what a child learns to how they learn it, to how the school/teacher responds and reacts to all of that.
My sons school is very good overall. Some of the teachers he has had, not so very but it is an overall and not a singular episode that needs to be looked at.

Reactions are not personal truths. They are primal, often from an instinctual place which may or may not be socially acceptible place, or from a place or personal truth. Many of us have often thought or felt one way, upon re-evaluation, but in the moment reacted in a manner completely opposite to that, for a multitude of reasons. That is not from a place of personal truth at all.
For example, my sons friend is ADHD Compulsive. He has a knowledge of right and wrong. He will like someone but if he gets angry at someone he lashes out in that moment, and then moves on with his life, dealing with the consequence of his actions. His personal truth is that the person on the receiving end is not all bad and did not deserve what he got, but this is only true when he is not blinded by his aggressive reactive instinct. As he gets older, he is more in control and focussing these emotions to things he feels are productive (whether or not anyone else does).
It happens often with children.
Instinct is not "personal truth".

One of my many truths is that I do not condone violence for myself to exact, yet I would immediately toss that aside should there be need. I know many factions and groups would not even do that, and I believe in that case they uphold their truth, where I would not.
Which brings me back to completely and respectfully disagreeing with you on this.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

MRC
MRC

Funky Blessings Daily

Member Since: 17th Jun 2008
Total posts: 215
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTomOn which model are you basing a persons actions and behavior (if not on that of "personal truth")?
"personal truth" is such an imprecise terminology. People put a number of different things they do into every action they take. Do they think it's the right thing to do? Will they get in trouble? What will other people think? Is that what they want them to think? Is it worth it? and so on...

Not to mention raw impulse or instinct. Sometimes if your impulses are strong enough you buy something you later realize was absolutely unnecessary. Your instincts or reactionary thought could cause you to do stupid things under pressure. I've done a lot of things I don't agree with because of the situation I was in. There are layers to any action and just "personal truth" is in my mind an oversimplification of things.

Quote:
And when it comes to education, we might have a completely different view on what's a "good education". Personally I have rarely come across one public education that I can term that. Starting from the very chairs these children have to sit on, going further to the teachers' (education) and the subjects taught to the method of teaching (competitive rather than teamwork). Certainly some models are more progressive than others - but the general approach to education is rather that of a poor standard.
I'll agree the competition and test oriented education of the USA is ineffective. There was a study that found kids in the 70s were ahead in every grade and subject, compared to now, where theoretically we should be doing that much better.
However not all systems are like that, what's more I am a product of public schooling and I am not against it.

I think public school taught me lessons that I have seen home schoolers go without, and it is not just what you learn in class. And some times it is. Math for example isn't necessarily intended to leave kids with calculator brains. It's intended to give them a frame of reference for problem solving and an analytical mind to help them sort variables. It's intended to influence the way they think. I digress though, In public school I learned a lot of things about people, and the way they work. I learned how to deal with a number of social situations, good and bad. The bad ones are also incredibly important. One doesn't know pain or how to deal with it, until they've been hurt.

That's the way I look at it anyway.

Every creature is a product of their environment. Part of that environment is the personal interaction. I know I was much closer to my mother than my father. My father was a workaholic and had a lot of personal problems. His decisions to work the way he did, kept him from us for a few years of my life. Then even when he COULD be around more he wasn't. When anything went wrong it was my mom who helped me, cleaned me up, took me to the doctor, came to the school, bought me clothes. My dad had no patience for that part of parenting.

I may not like my mom, I have a lot of disagreement with her, I think if we were never family, I wouldn't even like her if we met. That said I still adore the way she tried. She may not be perfect, and no one is, but she definitely attempted to be there for us as much as she could.

Mmmm rambling.


Delete

Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Quote:personal truth" is such an imprecise terminology

I'll say....I'd never heard the term so I went agoogling and came back with definitions so subjective that I can see several instances where personal truth can lead directly to what we call bad parenting.

As a for instance...My next door neighbour's daughter gave birth to a FAS child who needed open heart surgery pretty much the day he was born. So the child had the surgery and is discharged from the hospital and just where does the child show up next ? Locked in mom's car, alone, downtown in the middle of the night while mom was inside a nightclub getting plastered.

In this case mom's personal truth was " I really really want to party and I'm not going to let any responsibility(s) get in the way of that truth" ( as far as I can tell )

The fallout over this incident has the child getting seized by Children's Services, forcing the grandparents ( my next door neighbours ) to enact their own personal truths, family belongs together and step up to the plate and offer to raise that ( very challenged ) child themselves.

IMHO, personal truth is one of hose things that constantly needs to be examined and reevaluated, especially when there's a dependants physical and emotional well being at stake.

Babies at raves ??
Leaving your 15 year old daughter alone in a bar, in a foreign country, in the middle of the night ? (Scarlett Keeling)

Following some sort of personal truth....or just plain ol' bad parenting when looked at objectively ?


Delete

hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:At my parent's park, they used to, every year, have a 'Holiday camp' group, which was run for disadvantaged kids from Leeds who never got the chance to go anywhere.. Was run as a charity from a place down the road. Generally a really nice group to take round 'cos they all seemed to leave their cynicism behind from about the second day..

It stopped a few years ago unfortunately, when the guy who ran it went to return the kids, one of them's (single) mother had moved house without warning, leaving no forwarding address.. She was tracked down after a week or so (which one extremely upset 8-year old spent largely in the guy running the camp's spare room) and seemed to have the attitude of 'Oh alright, I hoped I'd get away with it, but I guess he can move back in..'.

Though I do seem to remember from school biology lessons that it takes two people to make a baby, so putting all the blame on her is not, probably, entirely fair.. I do personally count that as pretty bad parenting.
Yeah, there are plenty of people who have done their very best in difficult circumtances only to be called 'Bad parents', but that doesn't mean *everyone* tries their best, or even at all..


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

Delete

MRC
MRC

Funky Blessings Daily

Member Since: 17th Jun 2008
Total posts: 215
Posted:Yeah my dad pulled that disappearing censored on me and my mom. She was on vacation and I was at school, I came home after the school-day and bam, whole lot of stuff missing from the house, including him.

That struck me as a bad move to make. Perhaps he could have at least warned me the day before, ya know, so I didn't immediately panic and think we were robbed (though I realized we weren't because robbers also would have taken the large television and my computer and ya know other sensibly expensive stuff).

I know a kid who's mom lets him smoke. He's 15. He gets into fights (apparently a video of him beating a kid is on youtube though I've never seen it), drinks beer, smokes pot. He got put into a rehab thing or something...then that place said his problems were worse than that, he gets moved over to some other place I guess, then they let him go early or something. He comes home to balloons and cake, and a dinner out. Celebrating his return from BEING COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE. Less than a month later he's back to having parties with his friends, smokin and havin plenty of sex.

He was given a motherfuckin Xbox for christmas...FOR WHAT!? Being a lying money wasting brat? He evn had the audacity to ask in total seriousness (before christmas) "did you get my shopping done, because you didn't ask me to make you a list?"

That is bad parenting. His mother is enabling his bad behavior and refusing to punish him, for anything. Bad parenting.


Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:"every child has different needs..." isn't that as true as saying that every parent can only supply within their potential?

I feel (and remember) that often I wanted my parent(s) to act as omnipotent personalities, grossly neglecting that they actually are human beings, living their lives too.

Sometimes I feel as if mankind created an image (of god) after their own desire of how they want their parent(s) to be - and swiftly forgetting that very image by the time they become parents themselves [/vast generalization, please excuse]

How good "good education" is, remains in the eye of the beholder, I guess... Measured against what would be possible in terms of determination and individual furtherance that education provided by the government is mere crap... (as we can see by the masses of people working in the wrong occupations).

As for personal truths we like to focus on those that do harm, neglecting those who actually mankind progressed from. It depends on our individual mindset and mood I reckon.

Taken the examples, Pele put forth (or "opinions"): would it be better for a child to live with a pedophile abuser, rather than living apart from him? Would it be better to live in a violent home, rather than a caring foster one? Is it better to get a .38 colt than an X-box for Christmas?

I'd say: it really depends on the circumstances.

At the same time it might be better to grow up on the streets of Hells kitchen, than in an institution where children get (sexually) abused or indoctrinated with ideologies, turning them into suicide bombers.

Better having some kid get raised by TV and PC than facing the consequences of the "Alois Schickelgruber's education"... (google that one wink )

The more I grow up, the more discerning I look at my parents and in oder to really understand why they acted the way they did, guess I'd first need to walk the green mile in their shoes...

I used to complain about "bad parenting" - hence complaining alone doesn't help it - actions speak much louder than words. And in retrospect I now find a lot of compassion for what they did and why they did it.

wink

Merry Krishnas and a snappy hew year to ya all

bounce2 peace bounce2

grouphug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:for any kid over the age of 13-14 I blame the kid no one else by that age you know when what you are doing is wrong no matter how you were brought up.
School had a bigger influence on me than my parents, I hardly ever saw them as they were always at work.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

MRC
MRC

Funky Blessings Daily

Member Since: 17th Jun 2008
Total posts: 215
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTom"every child has different needs..." isn't that as true as saying that every parent can only supply within their potential?
This is true. Sometimes though, what a parent can provide isn't necessarily healthy for the child, even if it's BETTER, it may not be good.


Quote:I feel (and remember) that often I wanted my parent(s) to act as omnipotent personalities, grossly neglecting that they actually are human beings, living their lives too.

Sometimes I feel as if mankind created an image (of god) after their own desire of how they want their parent(s) to be - and swiftly forgetting that very image by the time they become parents themselves [/vast generalization, please excuse]
I think maybe that's not altogether inaccurate (though some greeks might have some 'splainin' to do). I think more importantly than forgetting people also realize that, there's a reason these godlike figures don't actually exist. Life is much more variable than that.


Quote:How good "good education" is, remains in the eye of the beholder, I guess... Measured against what would be possible in terms of determination and individual furtherance that education provided by the government is mere crap... (as we can see by the masses of people working in the wrong occupations).
Seems like a strawman. The education system can only teach a child to the extent of their effort, and it has very little to do with career choice after the fact. Actually in the US, highschool itself is not geared towards job placement, it's geared towards passing tests. You can take vocational side courses, but that always comes with the air of academic inferiority, and if you end up not liking that field after you qualify for it, you hurt your chances for college by not having academic classes. Though I digress...
The system is NOT good. It is vastly better than others however, and so I am thankful of that. However, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Quote:As for personal truths we like to focus on those that do harm, neglecting those who actually mankind progressed from. It depends on our individual mindset and mood I reckon.
I can't make any sense of this...

Quote:Taken the examples, Pele put forth (or "opinions"unnecessary): would it be better for a child to live with a pedophile abuser, rather than living apart from him? Would it be better to live in a violent home, rather than a caring foster one? Is it better to get a .38 colt than an X-box for Christmas?
Better does not mean best. Better doesn't mean good.
Would you rather be raped or murdered. I'll take a rape please. That doesn't make it GOOD though. Situations change things, but I suppose you can also find fairly sensible people coming from all sorts of situations which leads me to believe that a big part of parenting is teaching children how to deal with hardship. Or even just how to interpret a situation. The total situations can not be put to blame (in some circumstances, north koreans really have no choice do they?).

I think you're just miss-characterizing the entire thing. If nothing else your entire argument so far boils down to the idea that situations and morals are indefinite and that as such no one person's methods can be quantified as good or bad.

What about poi? What about medicine? Couldn't you apply the same things to ANYTHING and find that you're trying to remove people's ability to say whether or not they think something is wrong. That might be a bit of a straw man, but it seems to be all your argument comes down to if I have read it correctly.


Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:some ppl rather get murdered than raped... depending on their belief system, they consider it easier to get 'reborn' (or not) than having to walk with that scar for the rest of their lives and subsequently suffer.

ppl do have opinions about right or wrong MOST of the time, these opinions change (sometimes they even oscillate) and are often based upon their (momentary) background. I try to pay less attention or put in too much effort to understand where they are coming from, unless it's absolutely essential.

we do have pretty good educational models, they just remain in the drawer. if those institutions we later work for would at some stage recognize that they can "exploit" ppl even better, if they get provided with an individualized education, it will be implemented quicker. this system is not designed to satisfy or make ppl truly happy.

in the long run even money as a payoff could be dropped, if ppl would find true satisfaction in what they do - but for that they need to find opportunities in which they can express their full potential.

the system we ave today is by no means good - but significantly better than the one we had 200 or 500 or 1.000 years ago - still it evolves (inevitably) and what we consider "good" today will (hopefully) be substandard tomorrow... in the process many ppl lost their lives and suffered - it's part of an ongoing process it seems.

"parenting" as such does not just exist within a family - to me, "parenting" happens within a society... in school, from the government, from friends, neighbors and employer. to me "parenting" appears where there is a hierarchy and someone gets in the role of a teacher, guiding a scholar.

I'm expressing my personal views and opinions only, I consider them to be part of my "personal truth". Just as everybody else. No offense intended, but thatnks for expressing that there is some taken. Hitler had a personal truth, so had Ghandi... coming from the same source (of consciousness). we deem one as "good" the other as "bad", depending on our individual background. yet both significantly shaped the world we walk today, each one to their own potential and within their limitations. I have preferences, sure, but that might be to my own limitations and because I'm still living in Duality...

pls excuse if my posts appear controversial - I just have functions to attend at this point and didn't take much time to elaborate, thus uttered the thoughts as they popped up.

Feel free to ignore or oppose them, but please

enjoy the ride into the new year - see you on the other side smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Noiseyflower
Noiseyflower

Yell and scream all you like
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2009
Total posts: 53
Posted:Originally Posted By: Myncifor any kid over the age of 13-14 I blame the kid no one else by that age you know when what you are doing is wrong no matter how you were brought up.

I agree with this point whole heartedly, depending on how sheltered thta child had been the age may differ but the is a point where a child (adolesent) begins to turn to their friends rather than their family. Unfortunatly a parent has very very little control over that aspect of a childs life. The most they can d is forbid them from going ot their house although they still see said friend every day at school. It is a matter of luck and chance wether or not a child ends up in desirable friendships. If a child falls into a friendship group whome are all 'good' people then chances are that the child will result in the same.

I beleive a child needs to be taught at a very young age what is good and what is bad. Even if that means giving them the sex talk younger than usual just so they dont go off experimenting before you have a chance. The 'best' children are the ones who strive to please their parents so hence do what they beleive is good and will make their parents proud. A child who doesn't give a rats asss about what their parents think isn't going to think twice about a disaplin handed out to them because they skipped school. They'll climb out the window at night and skip school the next day aswell.

My opinions come from a mature mind in a teenagers body. I grew up in an environment that most people don't see in a lifetime. Although my mother was seriously screwed up in the head my father was still respectable and had settled down with a new wife. Up until i was 14 that is. At the time he ruined everything he had going for him I lost all respect for him. I realised at that point that I didn't give a rats ass what they thought.

Regardless though I have turned out alright. I get good marks in school and am surrounded by good friends (as shifty as they may be) and I go to a public school. grin

Speaking of public schools.. I have heard stories about the USA and thier public schools but here in Australia they are mostly pretty good schools unless you end up in some utter mess. My school for example puts out some of the best scores in the state every year.. and that is including all privet schools. Though speaking of good schools.... I know I have really bad spelling so i apologise to everyone reading this post.

ahem... yeh I'm done.


Delete

MRC
MRC

Funky Blessings Daily

Member Since: 17th Jun 2008
Total posts: 215
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTomsome ppl rather get murdered than raped... depending on their belief system, they consider it easier to get 'reborn' (or not) than having to walk with that scar for the rest of their lives and subsequently suffer.
Tomato potato, the point is still the same, you'd chose one over the other, and just because you think one is better, that doesn't make it good. (unless you have a fetish for that sort of thing...)

Quote:ppl do have opinions about right or wrong MOST of the time, these opinions change (sometimes they even oscillate) and are often based upon their (momentary) background. I try to pay less attention or put in too much effort to understand where they are coming from, unless it's absolutely essential.
first of all, I think it's kind of obvious that everyone's experiences and past are what shape their personalities. This may be a point of silly personal disagreement here but I think understanding where people come from is profoundly important. Understanding context can completely change the nature of a persons action.

Quote:we do have pretty good educational models, they just remain in the drawer. if those institutions we later work for would at some stage recognize that they can "exploit" ppl even better, if they get provided with an individualized education, it will be implemented quicker. this system is not designed to satisfy or make ppl truly happy.

Might have been easier to say that the education system has given way to capitalism in this country.

Quote:in the long run even money as a payoff could be dropped, if ppl would find true satisfaction in what they do - but for that they need to find opportunities in which they can express their full potential.
This seems kind of off topic. However, this is very Utopian idea. The whole reason for currency is so that direct trade need not occur, because you cannot always trade for what you need. But a currency allows one to store the value of the trade and redistribute it.
Money isn't going anywhere.

Quote:the system we ave today is by no means good - but significantly better than the one we had 200 or 500 or 1.000 years ago - still it evolves (inevitably) and what we consider "good" today will (hopefully) be substandard tomorrow... in the process many ppl lost their lives and suffered - it's part of an ongoing process it seems.
Indeed. Things do tend to change over time.

Quote:"parenting" as such does not just exist within a family - to me, "parenting" happens within a society... in school, from the government, from friends, neighbors and employer. to me "parenting" appears where there is a hierarchy and someone gets in the role of a teacher, guiding a scholar.
Again you seem caught up in semi-philosophic utopian ideals. I think it's easier to all people are influenced by those around them. When someone is put in charge of you, they have a potentially greater influence. I still think as a parent you are largely responsible for their life, safety, education...it is your burden to ensure the quality of their influence, or their ability to deal with "poor" influence.

Quote:I'm expressing my personal views and opinions only, I consider them to be part of my "personal truth". Just as everybody else. No offense intended, but thatnks for expressing that there is some taken. Hitler had a personal truth, so had Ghandi... coming from the same source (of consciousness). we deem one as "good" the other as "bad", depending on our individual background. yet both significantly shaped the world we walk today, each one to their own potential and within their limitations. I have preferences, sure, but that might be to my own limitations and because I'm still living in Duality...
I don't think you said a single substantive thing here. We all interpret our own world (our bias). Our bias influences every decision we make. I don't think there are many people in this world who have ever intended to do evil for the sake of evil. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

This to me is nothing new though or even relevant. People are different la-di-dah. The point seems to me that you're attempting to remove good and bad from the lexicon. Sounds like, again, a utopian gray. I think sauerkraut tastes horrid. I don't like the stuff, to me it's bad. If someone else likes it that's fine, to me it's bad.

Now I can also think certain parenting decisions are bad, it's within my "personal truth," to make use of your muddy word choice. It's my personal truth that their personal truth is enforcing a negative outcome.

Quote:pls excuse if my posts appear controversial - I just have functions to attend at this point and didn't take much time to elaborate, thus uttered the thoughts as they popped up.

Feel free to ignore or oppose them, but please

enjoy the ride into the new year - see you on the other side smile
I can also use some pretty harsh language in argument, so I do also apologize. I'm also kind of winging it here, and I understand the results of such so I'm responding point for (hopefully greater) clarity.

Originally Posted By: Myncifor any kid over the age of 13-14 I blame the kid no one else by that age you know when what you are doing is wrong no matter how you were brought up.
School had a bigger influence on me than my parents, I hardly ever saw them as they were always at work.
I disagree.
I mean, yes every individual should be held responsible for their own actions. That said any individual is highly influenced by their surroundings, throughout their lives. I don't know how easy it is to draw a clean line for individual responsibility on that and I'll leave that to a different discussion.
At a very young age we are all only really parroting. Imitating what we think is adequate response based on what we've seen. Now I think as you grow older you are no less influenced. I think each influence just holds an proportionately smaller aspect of the whole of your personality...this was really poorly composed.

Let me clarify. When you are 3 years old, one year is 1/3rd you're life. when 20, it is 1/20th. The impact a single day has on you steadily becomes less significant compared to what you've already been through. It's the same amount of time, a year is a year, however it's now one of an increasingly larger number of years. I think the same is true for our influences. At young ages a single parental action has a much bigger influence. As we get older our personal library of influences is much larger, so single actions hold a much smaller percentage of our personality, however I still think they're there.

I guess I go in to all this because I think drawing a line and saying "the kid is 15, he's his own person now!" is kind of inaccurate. so I disagree with the sentiment that parental responsibility is EVER cut off, however I always think people should be held personally accountable, as they have to learn THEIR actions have consequences for them. Also however the fact that a parent is judge may also teach that you actions have consequences for others.


------------------------------------------------------

I think to return to the point of the thread, "bad parenting" is just a personal perspective. That's all ANY idea really is.


Delete

Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted:As Firetom and others have pointed out, what constitutes "good parenting" is obfuscated by all kinds of cultural factors. But I don't think that makes it an impossible question... the name of the game here would be to come up with some things that are definitely bad parenting, in the broadest sense. Here are a few:

- A parent who choses a disciplinary style (eg. authoritative/permissive) without considering whether the style is appropriate for the kid's temperament.
- A parent who uses inconsistent and random disciplinary styles.
- A parent who takes out on the kid his/her anger or other negative emotions unrelated to the kid, with no consideration on how this will affect their development (eg. there's a big difference between punishing a kid because they've genuinely done something wrong, and punishing them because you've had a bad day).
- A parent who enforces ideals on the kid, without considering the effect these ideals will have in a broader social sense (eg. a parent who decides to not let the kid play video games, without even considering the effect this will have on their social life or other aspects of their lives).
- A parent who choses a disciplinary style without considering how appropriate the style is for the given culture (eg. being a permissive parent might be a bad move in cultures where authoritative parenting is the norm, this should be considered).
- A parent who assumes their parenting style works, without using the kid's development as feedback.
- A parent who makes any other decisions without considering the effect said decision will have on the kid in all aspects of their life.
- A parent who doesn't care about their kids.
- A parent who's kids are low on their priorities.

In most of the these cases, even parents with the best intentions can make mistakes. Can anyone think of some other cases?

Also, this thread seems to have gone off in two different directions: 1. what is bad parenting, and 2. whether you should blame your parents for bad parenting etc. Maybe there should be a thread for both.


Delete

TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Ok I think we need a fresh perspective here.

Children from a very young age want to please their parents.
Most parents will praise their child. Unfortunately there are the few who do not.
There are two outcomes to this. The frustrated child tries even harder to get the parents attention, provoking the parent, thus getting a telling off, which begins a chain of thought along the lines of "being good doesn't get me the attention I wanted. Maybe I'll get a different reaction if I do something else" and bad behavior begins.

The second outcome would be that eventually the child becomes withdrawn and depressed, unloved. The child stops bothering and a gap grows.

A "bad parent" would be someone who doesn't give their child encouragement, who doesn't nurture the child. A parent who will let a child run riot just so they don't bother them, or because they don't want to hurt the child's feelings.

I have two daughters. I Joined this site when the eldest was 5, and the youngest was just 4months old. My eldest now 8yr old, still has tantrums - recently they've gotten worse as we've been through some stressful family issues where her sister was MIA for three months. She's back now, getting attention, which the eldest doesn't like at times. but these are not common occurances. They play well together and look after each other.

I have found myself screaming at my eldest at one point out of sheer frustration at her screaming tantrums after a quiet word hasn't worked, warnings have failed, treats and privilages have been taken away, quiet time to reflect has not worked.

My youngest now 4, is so much different in her reactions. She will accidentally bop me one on the nose and start crying herself when she realises she's hurt me. even though no row has been given. If she does something wrong, I just say her name sternly, the lip comes out, her face leaks and she hugs me and apologises. She has tantrums too mind you, but she doesnt scream back that my compromise isn't good enough for her unlike the other one lol

Being a parent is becoming a student. even after they have left home. There is no diploma of parenting. You learn your limitations and strengths, you learn the child's.

A bad parent is a parent who has no concerns over their child.
a bad parent is a parent who assumes things about and concerning their child.
A bad parent is a parent who overprotective, socially suffocating the child so the child has trouble letting go later in life. children need to discover some things for themselves. Often it is the children of these types of parents who will, when given the chance and the peer pressure, discover things too early.
A bad parent is a lazy parent, who cannot be bothered to interact properly on a mental, emotional and physical level with their child.
A bad parent is a parent who refuses to accept that their child has been bad in someone else's company, or that their behaviour has been unacceptable away from home.
A bad parent is a parent who does not teach the child right and wrong.

A bad parent can damage a child.

Be concerned. Be nosey. Be encouraging. Be strong. And don't forget to laugh and smile!

You can only do what you can, but do it with positivity. Children will pick up on this.

Love and Light,
Tink. Back in action.
Hoo Yaaa!!!


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

Delete

newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Hey great to see you back here Tink! Last time I remember you posting you were going through some crap times.. I really hope things are better for you now!

Re bad parenting... drunks and junkies aren't much chop.
Some kids are just bloody horrible to parent/sibling/educate/be around. But we aren't allowed to say 'bad kids' any more.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Delete

Meeko_Kiddo
Meeko_Kiddo

journeyman

Member Since: 7th Sep 2006
Total posts: 84
Posted:I think the definition of a bad parent (or any type of parent for that matter) will depend on how the person who is defining it grew up.

My Dad was a severe alcoholic who beat my Mother and was never there for me. But I do not call him a bad parent. He is a product of his parents abuse and sadly it got transferred to him. He was a bad husband, he was not the best father, but even my Mother says he did what he was raised to do, he has a disease, but he still loved his kids greatly. Despite him missing birthdays and such, he showed his love in other ways. I will never call him a bad parent, because i truly do believe he loves me and he didnt know how to act otherwise with his upbringing and how deep he was into alcohol.

But being a parent myself, what he did taught me to NOT do the same thing. I love my dad, but id rather kill myself before I ever transfer that pain that he caused me onto my daughter. I have a few friends that I can call "bad parents" based upon what they do. I mean when you have a kid and straight up say "I go out and party and dont come home a lot and make my Mom take care of my kid because I just can't handle her." Ummm... what? So why did you even have the kid?

People call me a bad parent for things I do. People dont think I should go to parties. But ya know what, I think im doing just fine because I go out maybe once every couple weeks, go out to a party every few months, and no matter what kind of night I had I am up to make my kid breakfast, play with her all day, and when I do go out, I don't leave until I put her to bed. I dont work, my parents support me because Im in school 5 days a week. People say thats wrong, but all I am doing is securing a future for me AND my child. I love my baby girl and shes my pride and joy, and I know I can manage having fun while being a good parent.

But there are people who cant go out and juggle parenting too. There are people who make completely asinine choices for their kids, or just don't seem to care what their kids do. For example, this parent was on the bus the other day, jabbering on the phone about how she was having issues with some guy, while her kids were beating on each other, yelling, and at one point one of the kids came into my seat and practically sat in my lap so they can have better access to punch their brother in front of me. And the mother did NOTHING. That was wrong in my opinion.

I know people who have done drugs when breastfeeding, and that is more than bad parenting, that's child abuse. Even if you were brought up a certain ways, there are clear cut lines that keep your kids out of danger and if you bypass those lines and put your kids in harms way, thats clearly bad parenting.

But for the parents that allow their young teens or tweens to stay at home alone because they need to work nonstop to make a living, thats not bad parenting. For the parents who have to sacrifice getting their kids certain items so they can put food on the table, thats not bad parenting. Thats life. I don't think any of those parents think "OK, lets live in poverty because its fun! Lets not have dinner tonight because its fun! And let me work 20 hours out of the day just so we can make our rent, therefore not allowing me to see my kids, thats a great idea!" They do it to survive.

if you do things for your family to survive, thats not bad parenting. But not giving a damn when you know otherwise and have the ability to change aspects of your life which can harm kids.. thats what bad parenting is.


Delete

newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Good luck to you Meeko- I hope all your work and effort in staying at school pays off and you have a great life for you and your little girl. There is absolutely no sarcasm in that, I mean it. And of course you can go out and have a good time as a parent! Enjoy playing with your little one, go out play with some adults and come home refreshed. smile

My comment was far too quick and off the cuff to cover the varieties of human experience, and I'm sorry if it was offensive to you or anything. My mum was alcoholic, but in some ways she was the best parent she could be. We always had food, the house was clean etc. But there were long term issues that having her so off the wall so often left with me. But like you, I tried to learn from them and not repeat similar bad habits. Of course I then just made a different set of mistakes!



.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Delete

dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

addict
Location: Cannock, staffordshire
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2005
Total posts: 667
Posted:ok ive not been on again in a while
im a busy parent so dont get the time

im quite shocked at the fact that some think bad parents are those who have to work to get by, and saying if they can afford games consoles they can afford not to work???


my theorys on bad parenting are those who dont do whats best for therte child, selfish parents who think of themselves and not there children, parents who abuse children and ones who dont care.


I think if you are going to bring a child into the world you should work to support the child, living off benefits is not an option as that is other ppls hard earned money. I had to work 60 hours a week just to pay the rent and put food on the table because if i didnt id be homeless and then what sort of parent would i be. i put my childs needs first.
also what infuriates me is ppl that expect you to be a text book parent. things such as weaning too early and not doing things at the times the books says, sorrry but all children are different and you follow there needs not some book that tells you when they need it.

ive been called a bad parent in the past, and yes maybe i was when i had my eldest 2 children but what no body saw was the fact i suffered severe post natal deppression that resulted in a mental breakdown and took 3 years to recover, my dad had taken care over my sons but in everyones eyes i was a bad parent as they lived with there grandfather.
both my eldest boys are still with there grandad because they was settled in school and because it would have been wrong to pull them out of there secure zone. i did whats best for my children and thats being a good parent. my eldest has autism and he is 10 and only got diagnosed last november just after his 10th birthday... it took 5 years to get a diagnosis and doctors to actualy listen to us that there was something wrong yet again some ppl think because he is 10 and only just been diagnosed, that is bad parenting.
can you see what im saying here? a good parent is someone who puts there childrens needs first and does whats best for there children, ppl will always make there own decisions on what they think is wrong or right and will judge people like myself because of that, but they will never ever know what its really like until they are in the situation themselves.
i now have younger children another boy and a little girl. i was a single parent living in london/ essex my youngest son went to a child minder while i worked in a shop in town. i needed to work to pay the bills or end up homeless and losing my son, my partner moved in and he struggled to find a job due to his illness so i started working more hours resulting in 60 hours a week and hardly seeing my son but he was being cared for and didnt go without the things he needed and he had a roof over his head

now we have moved and my partner works 6 days a week just to make ends meet and we struggle, i stay at home but am looking for a job and will put my 19 month daughter in childcare
if anything kids benefit from being around other kids, especially ones there own age. they also learn from each other and learn to socialize
so if im being a bad parent for working to make ends meet and make the best for my children they best send childrens services in hadnt they

here in britain now parents are being forced to go back to work, with the threat of benefits being stopped and the credit crunch here aswell
so what can we actually do?

oh and on the game console thing i saved bloody hard to buy my son a console for xmas, and before that he had my partners old one he brought with him when he moved in.
also saved for my eldest boys to have a ds each
we dont go on holidays as we cant afford it but we are happy family.

sorry if that turned into a bit of a rant but its something that really gets on my wick at times when ppl think they know better than others without actually being in the situation. no one should be able to judge!!!


enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

stepped up promotions

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [bad parenting blame everybody] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Bad parenting - blame everybody else but yourself? [32 replies]
2. Forums > we are getting a bad name [71 replies]
3. Forums > Please help... i need advice so bad right now... [232 replies]
4. Forums > Blowing off steam <smokers rant> [47 replies]
5. Forums > is everybody asleep. [9 replies]

     Show more..