Forums > Advanced Staff moves > terminology question - antispin vs ?????

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:So, in talking to Ima, we have come accross an interesting impasse...

what do you call the opposite of 'antispin' - i.e. where the poi make extra circles spinning in the same direction as your arm is spinning?

I call it 'with spin', in france they have started calling it 'inspin' (a shortening of 'spin spin'), 'superspin' is already in use for something else but would be probably the nicest word for it...

it seems it would be useful to have a generic name for it, to avoid confusion - mostly on the international scene, as it's nice to be able to go somewhere/talk on the internet/view videos with a minimum of difficulty.

so, what'll it be?


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:for me, 'with spin' and 'prospin' have the exactly the same meaning

'spin spin' sounds too much like encouragement, not a term to me: more like 'spin! spin!'

I've been trying to put it into a sentence to see how it fits:

'do a long arm wallpane with spin'
'do a long arm wallpane prospin'
'do a long arm wallpane inspin'
etc...


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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malaman1
stranger

Member Since: 16th Dec 2006
Total posts: 5
Posted:double spin

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:So where does Subspin fit in?

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:you'll have to explain to me what a subspin means.

spin should have been an immediate no-go, since even anti-spin is still a spinning of one sort.

Double spin would be a bit limiting on how many rotations the poi is allowed to make before your arm completes its own larger rotation.

I agree that the sound of in-spin makes me visualize inversions and inside planes. While the concept is valid, its similarity to the other terminology can leave it open to misinterpretation.

If we agree with Ima's definition of a lock out, then that can be a type of multiple rotation in same direction, but not all multiple rotations need to have a momentary stop/hesitation to achieve that effect. You could simply have the poi spin very rapidly while your arm moves at a much slower rate. You could keep the poi spinning at a constant rate and alternate the speed that you rotate your arm.

soo.... me likes the pro-spin best.


oh and super spin? That should be saved for comments regarding a fantastically well done job by the performer. "Super spin, baby!!, Now rock that next spin with a 3petal anti-spin flower into a 4petal pro-spin flower followed by a wallplane'd barrel roll in-spin, with-spin(aka: same time). But it don't really matter, cause that was a damn super-spin!! Yeha!" *(walks away to refill the coffee pot, head spinning all the while)

EDITED_BY: squid (1236639174)
EDIT_REASON: forgot one of the listed categories


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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AlienJon
AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 290
Posted:I've been using inspin lately and so has Nick Woolsey... but I'm not entirely happy with it.

-----------------------------
*technical blather warning*

I'd like to get a handle on what everyone thinks of as compound circles/flowers, antispin and "inspin", along with trammels/ various 1:1 patterns.

I like to model things in my mind (and 3ds max) from an external observer's point of view (say a camera on a tripod) rather than a 1st person view of what your wrist is having to do. This allows focus on the geometric relations, and you figure out how your body is supposed to do that. I also like to pay attention to "phase":
the orientation of the staff at the beginning of the pattern's cycle. Usually I find 4 possible phases are adequate to use: Horizontal or vertical, with staff ends A-B or B-A. I'll describe things from this point of view:

Non-compound circling:

You have a static spin, where your hand stays at a point but the staff rotates.

You have R-types/flats or whatever they are called:
The hand/center of staff makes a circle, but the staff stays vertical or horizontal. This is a 1:0 ratio of hand orbit to staff rotating, but each head does still make a circular orbit... so in terms of circular orbits, is it a ratio of 1:1?!

Linear hand movements:
Move your hand in a line wile you spin and you get variations on a cycloid.

You have things in the Trammel/1:1 family:
There are plenty of these beyond the one where end A makes a line, the center makes a perpendicular line, and end B makes an ellipse.
I consider a 1:1 staff antispin a form of trammel. Some of these patterns have circular hand paths, some have ellipses, some have linear hand paths, but it's all a ratio of 1 hand cycle to 1 staff rotation. Some of these have an antispin quality to them, some don't. Staff isolations, extensions, and "rockets" (90 off phase with a staff iso) are all 1:1 as well.

Then we have compound circles:
This is like a spirograph: The hand cycles on a circular path at a different rate than the staff is rotating.

So, you have a set of patterns where the staff is rotating slower than the hand cycle. This can happen in "anti-spin" or "in-spin". I've seen these referred to as super-anti-spin and super-spin. Can anyone clarify this? Does the "super" indicate the faster-than-staff hand speed?

Then you have the set of staff-rotating-faster than hand cycle. This can of course be "anti-spin" or "in-spin".

So it seems to me that "anti-spin" and "in-spin" are attributes that aren't necessarily synonymous with "flowers" or compound circles alone.

Further, you can take linear hand movements and assemble them together to form polygon hand paths and complex geometric hand paths, ala Cyrille and Zan. If they are closed paths, that your hand s repeatedly cycle, they have a path directionality, so can these be described as "anti-spin" or "in-spin", even though they can have moments that look like both?

Also, when you fold your staff from point to point, or both heads trace the same polygon, your hand path is actually "asteroid"-like, ie a star of N points made of N equal arcs of a circle, then flipped inside out. If we look at the entire hand path then we would say the former has a quality of "anti-spin", wile the latter a quality of "in-spin"... but if you look at only one arc, for that moment the staff is doing the recipricol, ie "folding anti-spin" is made up of fractions of point isolation, or "polygon tracing" is made up of fractions of "anti-spin".

In summation, good luck on naming this shiz in an accurate, meaningful, yet not-to-wordy way!! crazy

+Alien Jon


+Alien Jon

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imakokode
imakokode

member
Location: Paris
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 121
Posted:ehh ... thanks eek

well i think i understood about half of it...
But, i still don't know if this is because i'm too frenchy or not geek enough laugh3

EDITED_BY: imakokode (1236706026)


>> all is full of love <<

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Exuro
Exuro

The Prodigy

Member Since: 5th Dec 2008
Total posts: 82
Posted:Originally Posted By: imakokodeehh ... thanks eek

well i think i understood about half of it...
But, i still don't know if this is because i'm too frenchy or not geek enough laugh3

laugh3laugh3laugh3rofllaugh3laugh3laugh3

I think it's cuz Jon's geek level ranks him at a 12 out of 10 =P

EDITED_BY: Exuro (1236844794)


You play with fire,
You're going to get burned.

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squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:I think Jon meant to say "asterisk" not "asteroid" in the last paragraph.

"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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Kyle McLean
Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 364
Posted:Superspin is what i've always used. But rockout is probably what i will use from now on. Excellent result smile

I started using a lot of these terms in reference to contact but use them more often in talking about flowers now. If you are describing relationships rather then content, it's valid in both cases. You can antispin your shoulder and elbow for example.


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:rockets are perpindicular spinning right? I would have called them aero-planes but rockets are simi-lar.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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r0ms
stranger

Member Since: 21st Nov 2007
Total posts: 5
Posted:I voted other and I call it SpinSpin.
Maybe a little hard and repetitive to say, but it explains what originally happens : Your hand do a Spin, what you manipulate do a Spin in the same direction.

EDITED_BY: r0ms (1237206061)
EDIT_REASON: correction.


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Flecolan
Flecolan

Chillisity!
Location: Nieuwkoop, Netherlands
Member Since: 15th Aug 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:I'd just call it spin or regular spin or if used for the specific move I'd call it regular flower or just flower.

Pagan Hippie ^^

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AlienJon
AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 290
Posted:Originally Posted By: squidI think Jon meant to say "asterisk" not "asteroid" in the last paragraph.


Non-Https Image Link


In fact, I meant astroid.

I just added an 'e' because sometimes you need more vowel than is actually neeeededed!
But contextually, an asterisk i vaguely related as a hand path.


+Alien Jon

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:hypocycoids.

Ahhhhhhhhh.

How right was cole?

The squished one looks interesting, I'll have to program that...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:I like Hyperspin, it coincides with medical jargon to mean "over"

you could then have hypospin. If you arm and poi are both rotating Hyperspin would mean more rotations and hypo mean less although you could technically have hyper-anti-spin which would mean antispin with extra beats. Hypo spin would be if you rotated your arm more than the prop rotated i.e when you do arm rotations with the poi hanging or the poi spins slowly compared to movement. the Hypercycoid would hyper because it is 3 full poi rotations compared to 1 arm roatation. Hyper loops would fit too because they are rotating more than the arm grin


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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FireDesireBruno
FireDesireBruno

Flame Wielder
Location: South Africa, JHB
Member Since: 21st Aug 2010
Total posts: 20
Posted:I have always used Inspin

Unity through Love, Light & Poi

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