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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > You can go to the ball.....

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:edit- now with descriptions - Of one characteristic member of each family.some families have 60-100+ members.

and over simplified definitions of ways of spinning and of fundamentals, you should get the idea



In reverse order:

Moves:

as if I'm going to write out a list



up one level to:

Families:

CROSS FOLLOW - weaves and variations

BUTTERFLIES - see hop lesson for a simple butterfly ( a butterfly is still a fly.)

WAIST WRAPS - oldskool clubswinging term, for me the carry defines the wastwrap. lush vaiations btb and butterfly

STARTS - play

STOPS [inc. stop wraps]

REELS - Reel (simpelist butterfly reel) = low wave or mexican wave + a lot of variations

oldskool clubswinging term. Look it up in schatz, watch the gandini clubswinging dvd. ailing that you can be pretty sure that if its wall plane and you have a poi on each side of your body than its a reel variation.

PARTIAL ARCS - incomplete circles in lots of different ways eg pendulums

JEDI MOVES - the one that isn't logical: defined as stuff that I and almost nobody really understand fully and is concepts that are really really hard. members don't tend to stay in here for more than a year or 2, because, as more people learn them they become far easier to learn (somone type global conciousness in here,) because as we gain understanding we learn how to teach it, and because we get to see it IRL and in videos rather than just in our heads. so it used to be that 5bt btb weave was jedi, now its just very difficult. Part of the reason that it exisst is that its often not completlt clear where now concepts are going to fit in when they are finally fleshed out, so it kindof existed as a holding group when I made the list for stuff that is really hard and we don't fully understand and haven't got solid. by the time it becomes mainstream nobody really thinks its Jedi anymore.

ISOLATIONS and taking the weight off - see below, buzzsaw isolation was one of the first also known as illusion

THROWS - toss juggling poi

THROUGH WRAPS

TANGLES - inc hyperloops and airwraps

BIG CIRCLE LITTLE CIRLCE - see below

SEPARATE [independent] - disconnect your arms and have 2 brains

BUZZSAWS / INSIDE - spin a wheel with short poi follow time

SPIDER - follow time, spin in follow time anywhere, you can think of it as one move (arashi classification) or as a family (ww cross follow etc traditional club swinging classification) and as a way of spinning. It becomes a game to extend your spider, add btb, add wall plane, add long arm etc etc. )then go do a split time spider then butterfly, then parallel etc)

BODY TURNS

ILLIGAL MOVES [ edit: wink ]

FOUNTAINS and FLOWERS - edit oops forgot this sub family of cross follow. flowers are very simmilar to fountains if you reverse the major circle

There are more or less depending on your breakdown smile



up one level to

Ways of Spinning:

FOLLOW TIME: same direction 180 apart. like you do in cross follow or 3 bt weave.poi point in opposite directions

PARALLEL TIME: same direction and parallel, , its the simplest time to understand

BUTTERFLY TIME: opposite direction crossing at top and bottom

SPLIT TIME: opposite direction crossing at sides. same rhythm as follow time but poi travelling on opposite direction so they cross at 3 oclock and 9 oclock

QUARTER TIME (ugh) poi at 90 degrees

2:1 // 3:1 // 3:2 // X:Y // X:1 - one poi completing one revolution everytime the other one does two? and so on and so on.

CLOCK TIME- jedi at the moment, so I won't describe. variation on x:y and specically playing with 5:4 big circle little circle wall plane

BIG CIRCLE / LITTLE CIRCLE - combine long arm with normal circles or isolations - play with circle size eg

flowers

VERTICAL

HORIZONTAL

INCLINED

DIFFERENT PLANES - ATOMS (poi spinning on different planes) - OTHERS non atom

eg - vertical and horizontal - one poi on each

TRINITY



up one more level to

The Fundamentals:

BASIC CIRCLES - Shoulder centre (long arm rotation - watch pk or jo derry do it cleanly very hard to do well)

- Elbow centre

- hand centre (normal spinning)

- mid string centre (isolation see below much difficult)

body turns - (move yo' ass)

HANGS AND STILLS (and gilligans) - po hanging straight down post modernist poi swinging

PULL THRU's - when the poi climbs up to 10 oclock tug so it flys acrros to 2 oclock and chops off the top of the circle etc

CRITICAL MOMENTUM: when near the top of the revolution, the speed of the po at the top of the arc falls below a certain speed (aside: it think its about 2m/s or 6 ft/sec for the old timers and yanks if your hand is stationary but i wouldn't trust the math i do late at night and your hand isn't stationary )...

where was I, ok, below a certain speed at the top the tension falls to zero. and the po falls off the circle for about a quarter to a third of a circle, but still completes the loop around the hand.

Ideal for drunken master style. very difficult to have any plane control or timing, but thats just more drunk, very nice feeling at the po fall over your hands plop plop plop. much easier if you don't try. mostly poi ntless

THROWS & RELEASES - letting go

CONTACT MOVES - po head or string in contact with some part of the body and still moving

ISOLATIONS - difficult analogous in many ways to club swinging snakes. the po rotates about a point in the middle of the string. powered isolations - rotate about a point between centre and head. lame/lazy or bad isolations rotate about a point between handle and midpoint of string.

WRAPS - po wraps around part of your body and unwraps again recoil or stop wraps- bounce off and come out in reverse. thru wraps unwrap because you moved the limb they are wrapping round to the other side of your body

SPIRAL - play with spirals

CONSTRUCT/helix - this is super dark, and I'm not going to explain it here, its the most complex concept in poi that I have ever understood. I can now explain it. but expect your brain to cook. id saw its utterly jedi to even form a mental picture the concept in space. biggrin



EDIT:

also if you want to get serious about terminology - get a copy of schatz (I've lost my copy, have i leant it to you??)

gillings can be very useful, but not all of it is correct (fountain is counted wrong, and very difficult to under stand in places, but http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/lib/contents.htm.
br>
__________________________________________

It isn't complete. They're my definitions, in my list of moves. (And if you're using expressions like families / hyperloops / isolations / and about 1/4 of the terms up there you're using words defined for poi in my list)



before you get really confused, most moves live in more than one family, and most moves have cousins in every other family. (if you want to develope your spinning, take any move and transcribe it to another family, or to another way of spinning.... eg take a weave, put it in split time get a split time butterfly weave).

one last thing: my recommendation is that you don't put your effort into try to work out what other people have done, don't waste your effort trying to disentangle badly described poi words. use them mearly as inspiration, its far more rewarding to explore the teritory for yourself, and to define perfection in poi for yourself, and to always aim and strive for that point.

\end technical nerdy poi spinning mode



I wish you all clean planes and down right dirty dancing

Drew

biggrin



coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:wicked biggrin

*waits patiently for rev to finish school*


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:(UK) = (UK) + 1
(US) = (US) - 1

Damn. ubbcrying

Actually, London and Louisiana are about the same distance financially anyway... so it's a wash to me. And if EVERYONE moves to London, that makes my vacation plans much easier.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Glad that was useful simian; and nx? it's certainly is confusing. Perhaps a point worth making is that for much of this learning stuff you need a system, and even if the system is obscure, as long as you can see a progression from basic (building block moves) to the more complex, then it makes sense, ummm.

Rev, to paraphrase Glass "use badly described poi words as inspiration, its far more rewarding to explore the territory for yourself, and to define perfection in poi for yourself, and to always aim and strive for that point".

I don't want to hijack Glass's thread with a discussion on transitions, but transitions are the passage from one form, state, style, or place to another (dictionary dot com) found in the sub-section ticks, under sleight of hand, next to it's all done with mirrors smile



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:the v stuff kinda makes sense.. I mean I follow the idea of the helix.. and all so I grasp the / and \.. I'm going to read over it again in a few days, I want to wait until I get done playing with some things before I start another theorizing tangent..that's the part of poi I love best.. aside from doing it and all..

as far as perfection in poi. yeah.. I know what it is.. its something I haven't achieved.. that's why I keep spinning.. otherwise I would be a quitter.. and rehab is for quitters.. Betty Ford clinic for poi... lol..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Arrr, simian, I'm inclined to agree with your statement: "Godammit, follow and parallel are rubbish terms. What are terms for those timings irrespective of same\opposite direction"



I don't know the answer, except to say that with parallel moves, for example parallel circles to the right, your right hand is doing an outward circle and your left hand is doing an inward circle.



The term parallel is used when the movement is parallel from start to finish. Apparently, you don't use the term parallel, if you are doing a shoulder movement with one hand and hip movement with the other eek



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:au contraire...

I use the term paralel to refer to just that very thing, as long as the poi are pointed in the same direction at teh same time, i call it paralell. for egsample paralell extensions, wher one stays at the hip and the other does a shoulder circle and the poi make one line going round, cos they are in paralell time. *shrug*

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:I'd have to agree that's a good working definition of parallel Nix?, and the one I was using until I looked it up and confused myself rolleyes

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:umm

ubblol



I call then parallel when they aren't parallel wink



sorry I'm not helping am I ubbangel



*shrug* walks off to find some brekkie.


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:*thinks*
Hmmm. What this needs is some fancy computer graphics, and a scientific way of explaining moves to explain things clearly.
*/thinks*

Does anyone know how to put together computer models of this kind of thing?


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:You need poibot. Is she still alive?

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:Ok, so my question was kind of leading. I just wanted to know if anyone else might do this first.

I've got a load of programming experience, just not in the right kind of languages for this (Povray makes nice 3d pictures from script, but it isn't for interactive stuff, just animation. JavaScript and Python I can do pretty well, but aren't really suited to online graphics). Also I know all the maths from A-Level for the inertia, momentum, acceleration and gravity calculations, along with the proper mathematical models of 3d space.

I think I could put together some interactive models, but I've got to learn to program the ActionScript language used for Macromedia Flash first. I need to do this for a load of projects, but this one starts off simple enough to get me into it, and in a field I'm familiar with.

There's no way I'd be able to add an acurately modelled person into the middle of it all, I'm going to be starting with real basic stuff like gravity (make an object in the movie accelerate downwards), circular motion caused by connecting the object to a revolving point/finger (apply momentum in the direction of pull), then move from a 2d system to 3d.

Failing that I could always see if I can find some freeware motion capture software, and a bunch of poiers who don't mind being filmed whilst covered in white spots! Putting M.C. info into a database hooked up to Flash might be easier on peoples computers than doing 3D calculations in Flash.

I'll see how it goes as I'm working on LED poi too at the moment.


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Have you seen poibot on Sphericulism?

Somebody post a link.. I'm out the door.

biggrin


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:http://www.spherculism.com/help/poibot_009.html
smile


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no


fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:confused

I wish I understood even a fraction of the original post shrug


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:it groups of moves innit.



but seeing you can do a whole load of moves in every family listed, i guess it doesn't matter that you don't get it fairy.



its only really useful to remind yourself that just when you think its all done, there's a whole load more to learn wink





weavesmiley shrug





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Cehck the Poi bot again from the front he is cheeting with hands hahahahh smile


POI THEO(R)IST


fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:k. I'll stop panicking now then hug

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:smile

POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:that's because the physics engine isnt in it yet... there's a ntoher cool video floating around showing waht the next poi bot will look like.. only the vid has kung-fu bot instead of poibot.. lol.. I'll see what I can do about getting a link up later today

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


pfsh
newbie

Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6
Posted:video????? pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tongue


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:ubblol video of what?

what rev was on about or the original post...?

wink


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:He wants to see Poibot in action, like I do.

POI THEO(R)IST


VampyricAcid
VampyricAcid

veteran
Location: My House
Member Since: 27th Jun 2005
Total posts: 1286
Posted:what about "pull aparts"

Proudly Owned By The BMVC

Are You Sniffing My Mitten?


frauhelixwurst
newbie

Member Since: 12th Sep 2007
Total posts: 1
Posted:herr glass !

are u ready to explain what a construct/helix is ??

we travelled a long time through the galaxy to find the right time channel to enter the dark side of poi.

we are ready, we want to know ! are u ready , do u know ?


ubbloco ubbloco

hug



Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Tee hee. ubblol
Yes, am ready.
Nice bump of a 3 year old thread
Let me just explain Ball Contact first, then I'll get onto it. biggrin



LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:*bump*

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi


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