Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Stall switching and other tangents
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Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Ok, so Danny and I were rambling in his video thread about Stall Switching... It occurred to me that not everyone would know what we're jibbering about.
What encompasses a stall switch?
I see it as the cord and the poi both staying along a plane from one angle... but the hand can move OFF that plane so long as the poi do not rotate and as such don't give the impression that the poi really leave that plane.
Meaning, I only count the POI as having changed planes once it has completed a revolution.
Double horizontal stall in which you want to keep the head in the same place, but move the direction of the stall requires your hand to break plane... but I still consider it a stall switch because thats the impression it gives.
What does everyone else think? I'll pad this out a bit more with some of the ramblings danny and I had made in the other thread after I get it going...
Ok, so Danny and I were rambling in his video thread about Stall Switching... It occurred to me that not everyone would know what we're jibbering about.
What encompasses a stall switch?
I see it as the cord and the poi both staying along a plane from one angle... but the hand can move OFF that plane so long as the poi do not rotate and as such don't give the impression that the poi really leave that plane.
Meaning, I only count the POI as having changed planes once it has completed a revolution.
Double horizontal stall in which you want to keep the head in the same place, but move the direction of the stall requires your hand to break plane... but I still consider it a stall switch because thats the impression it gives.
What does everyone else think? I'll pad this out a bit more with some of the ramblings danny and I had made in the other thread after I get it going...
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Originally Posted By: dannydevil
If i were to take my hands out of the original plane, it would be a plane change with a line isolation (not a stall switch); or i could take both my hands and the poi heads out of the original plane, making it a plane change with an isolation. For just half a rotation, they looks almost identical to a stall switch, and a stall switch is easier.
To make it clearer... to me a stall switch has to have both the poi and hand moving along the same line (or one staying stationary). A line happens to be the intersection of two planes, so you can mix stall switches and plane changes quite happily.
If you let the hand move out of line when doing a stall switch, and still call it a stall switch, surely a cateye line isolation is also a stall switch?
Originally Posted By: Mother Natures SonWhy not call the cateye thing a stall switch? It begins and ends in a diagonal changing the diagonal, the poi CORD breaks the line isolation in order to switch sides.
After that we both agreed that it really does depend on your point of view at this stage.
I went on to say this...
Originally Posted By: Mother Natures SonLots of things are also something else.
Like a square is a type of rectangle. A linear isolation can be considered a point isolated antispin or an extended cateye.
I think its because all of this reasonably new stuff of linear isos and that kind of thing are all hinged off a combination of elements.
A butterfly linear isolated square is the same idea... combination of point isolated antispins and I don't really understand the other half of it, still scratching my head on that one... I should get better at doing it and then see how we go at understanding what the hell its doing.
Look, I don't REALLY know where I'm taking this thread, but I know theres something in there for someone else to read and comment on.
Originally Posted By: dannydevil
If i were to take my hands out of the original plane, it would be a plane change with a line isolation (not a stall switch); or i could take both my hands and the poi heads out of the original plane, making it a plane change with an isolation. For just half a rotation, they looks almost identical to a stall switch, and a stall switch is easier.
To make it clearer... to me a stall switch has to have both the poi and hand moving along the same line (or one staying stationary). A line happens to be the intersection of two planes, so you can mix stall switches and plane changes quite happily.
If you let the hand move out of line when doing a stall switch, and still call it a stall switch, surely a cateye line isolation is also a stall switch?
Originally Posted By: Mother Natures SonWhy not call the cateye thing a stall switch? It begins and ends in a diagonal changing the diagonal, the poi CORD breaks the line isolation in order to switch sides.
After that we both agreed that it really does depend on your point of view at this stage.
I went on to say this...
Originally Posted By: Mother Natures SonLots of things are also something else.
Like a square is a type of rectangle. A linear isolation can be considered a point isolated antispin or an extended cateye.
I think its because all of this reasonably new stuff of linear isos and that kind of thing are all hinged off a combination of elements.
A butterfly linear isolated square is the same idea... combination of point isolated antispins and I don't really understand the other half of it, still scratching my head on that one... I should get better at doing it and then see how we go at understanding what the hell its doing.
Look, I don't REALLY know where I'm taking this thread, but I know theres something in there for someone else to read and comment on.
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Nobody liked my stall switching thread? Boo!
Oh well. I'd like to add that using a plane change and isolation to do a stall switch is the only way I can stall switch my duos, the heads are too long to do a stall switch without holding hands wider apart than I like or just having it look ugly because of the way the heads twist as they turn.
Nobody liked my stall switching thread? Boo!
Oh well. I'd like to add that using a plane change and isolation to do a stall switch is the only way I can stall switch my duos, the heads are too long to do a stall switch without holding hands wider apart than I like or just having it look ugly because of the way the heads twist as they turn.
The Prodigy
82 posts
82 posts
Posted:
Hmm,
the wording is a little confusing to me.
Can you clarify how to break plane with your hands only?
i dont think i understand what exactly you mean.
something like a vertical line isolation where you turn 90° with every rise and fall of the poi is the only one i can think of.
Personally for me,
the plane i am spinning in can be determined by imagining a velocity/direction arrow coming out of my poi,
another from the center of my chain, and another from my hand
whatever plane these lines lie on is the plane i am spinning in.
The moment that one of these lines changes direction,
is when I am in the process of changing plane.
The moment that they all are on the same plane again(relative to each other) is when the plane change is completed.
in a stall, all of these imaginary arrows converge and point to my poi head as my speed approaches zero.
The stall itself occurs at the zero point.
immediately after the zero point,
the lines point to your hand.
then, and only then is a stall switch possible.
A full revolution of the poi is not necessary to classify something as a plane change imo,
since i can stall at any point during a rotation of my poi.
this means i can stall from wheelplane to ceiling plane to wallplane and back during a single 360 degree rotation of my poi around my hand, and end in the same location as i started.
By your initial definition this doesn't constitute a plane change at all.
I feel that during that course of movement,
i do change planes,
and i do use stall switches.
--Ex
Hmm,
the wording is a little confusing to me.
Can you clarify how to break plane with your hands only?
i dont think i understand what exactly you mean.
something like a vertical line isolation where you turn 90° with every rise and fall of the poi is the only one i can think of.
Personally for me,
the plane i am spinning in can be determined by imagining a velocity/direction arrow coming out of my poi,
another from the center of my chain, and another from my hand
whatever plane these lines lie on is the plane i am spinning in.
The moment that one of these lines changes direction,
is when I am in the process of changing plane.
The moment that they all are on the same plane again(relative to each other) is when the plane change is completed.
in a stall, all of these imaginary arrows converge and point to my poi head as my speed approaches zero.
The stall itself occurs at the zero point.
immediately after the zero point,
the lines point to your hand.
then, and only then is a stall switch possible.
A full revolution of the poi is not necessary to classify something as a plane change imo,
since i can stall at any point during a rotation of my poi.
this means i can stall from wheelplane to ceiling plane to wallplane and back during a single 360 degree rotation of my poi around my hand, and end in the same location as i started.
By your initial definition this doesn't constitute a plane change at all.
I feel that during that course of movement,
i do change planes,
and i do use stall switches.
--Ex
You play with fire,
You're going to get burned.
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Originally Posted By: Exuro
Can you clarify how to break plane with your hands only?
i dont think i understand what exactly you mean.
something like a vertical line isolation where you turn 90° with every rise and fall of the poi is the only one i can think of.
Do a stall of any kind... now change the direction of the stall but do NOT change the position of the head. Try to do it without breaking plane with your hand and you'd have to pick up the ability for your hand to pass through the poi head.
I didn't much like the definition either, it was my first attempt at defining it but since I had a 'stall switch' that involved a half beat of isolation I wasn't sure whether or not to call it a stall switch or an isolation.
But I think I'd like to fuse yours and dannys ideas here and say that it is a plane change because all components leave the plane they were originally on in order to join the new plane, but its also a stall switch because its a means of getting from one stall to another by the shortest possible route that means has to offer.
I guess the point isolated stall switch is still a plane change, but its not a 'full' plane change, its just a plane change for the hand and cord. (You can also do a plane change with these two and keeping the head moving by doing a kind of whacky 3d linear iso)
Originally Posted By: Exuro
Can you clarify how to break plane with your hands only?
i dont think i understand what exactly you mean.
something like a vertical line isolation where you turn 90° with every rise and fall of the poi is the only one i can think of.
Do a stall of any kind... now change the direction of the stall but do NOT change the position of the head. Try to do it without breaking plane with your hand and you'd have to pick up the ability for your hand to pass through the poi head.
I didn't much like the definition either, it was my first attempt at defining it but since I had a 'stall switch' that involved a half beat of isolation I wasn't sure whether or not to call it a stall switch or an isolation.
But I think I'd like to fuse yours and dannys ideas here and say that it is a plane change because all components leave the plane they were originally on in order to join the new plane, but its also a stall switch because its a means of getting from one stall to another by the shortest possible route that means has to offer.
I guess the point isolated stall switch is still a plane change, but its not a 'full' plane change, its just a plane change for the hand and cord. (You can also do a plane change with these two and keeping the head moving by doing a kind of whacky 3d linear iso)
GOLD Member
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
video required please. but do you mean like now in some of nick woolseys videos he will buzzsaw forward, stall one up and one down then change the plane instantly to horizontal?
video required please. but do you mean like now in some of nick woolseys videos he will buzzsaw forward, stall one up and one down then change the plane instantly to horizontal?
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
I have a stalls and plane changes tutorial as well as a demo vid, I dont do the SPECIFIC one mentioned here, but the example of nick woolsey is a plane change, yeah.
I have a stalls and plane changes tutorial as well as a demo vid, I dont do the SPECIFIC one mentioned here, but the example of nick woolsey is a plane change, yeah.
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
Been playing with them. Lots of fun. Do not really think about them per se....
But please explain what you mean by a stall *switch*....
Been playing with them. Lots of fun. Do not really think about them per se....
But please explain what you mean by a stall *switch*....
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
https://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf=htt...les=1&cr=US
This is G. G does lots of stall switches.
I have done a stall up with the right and down with the left.
Wait?? ?? What is this?! ? AAARRGHHH now all of a sudden it looks like I did a stall DOWN with the right and UP with the left.
MAAADNESS
Ok. I bed now, festival tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf=htt...les=1&cr=US
This is G. G does lots of stall switches.
I have done a stall up with the right and down with the left.
Wait?? ?? What is this?! ? AAARRGHHH now all of a sudden it looks like I did a stall DOWN with the right and UP with the left.
MAAADNESS
Ok. I bed now, festival tomorrow.
GOLD Member
Chillisity!
42 posts
Location: -
Chillisity!
42 posts
Location: -
Posted:
Wow he really has awesome skills and fluidness. Nature, youve really provided me with new inspiration about stalls.^^
Wow he really has awesome skills and fluidness. Nature, youve really provided me with new inspiration about stalls.^^
GOLD Member
.
95 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
.
95 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Simple stall switch 1: Stall the poi vertically, so that the poi head is above the handle (an up-stall). Don't move your hand, and the poi head will drop, ending in a vertical stall with the handle above the poi head (a down-stall).
Simple stall switch 2: Stall the poi vertically, so that the handle is above the poi head (a down-stall). Flick the poi upwards, ending in a vertical stall with the poi head above the handle (an up-stall).
Simple plane change: Do a down-stall in the front plane. Take the poi out spinning in the buzz-saw plane.
Mixed stall-switch 1: Do an up-stall in the front plane. Spin the poi for half a turn in the buzz-saw plane, and do a down-stall.
Mixed stall-switch 2: Do an up-stall in the front plane. Let the poi head drop, while moving your hand in a line forwards (in buzz-saw plane), so that the poi length is taut when horizontal, and then move your hand back to its starting position, resulting in a down stall.
The mixed stall switches could be plane changes or stall switches or both; something changes plane, it starts in one stall and ends in another.
Originally Posted By: Ezuro
Can you clarify how to break plane with your hands only?
i dont think i understand what exactly you mean.
something like a vertical line isolation where you turn 90° with every rise and fall of the poi is the only one i can think of.
'Mixed stall switch 2' would be breaking plane with hands only. What you described is an example of doing that continuously.
I like your description of arrows in the poi head. The poi handle should also be taken into consideration when deciding which plane you are spining in; but it depends what you're spinning. If you're spinning with fire, the position and motion of your hand matters a lot less. If socks, it matters more. ALso, if, as Mother_Natures_Son suggested, you keep the poi head still - the motion of your hand solely defines the plane.
There are masses and masses of variations, especially when you consider horizontal stalls too. And then try with two poi at once. And then try mixing into other moves...
Another note on stall switches; they look particularly effective if you can get the hand and poi head to swap places.
Simple stall switch 1: Stall the poi vertically, so that the poi head is above the handle (an up-stall). Don't move your hand, and the poi head will drop, ending in a vertical stall with the handle above the poi head (a down-stall).
Simple stall switch 2: Stall the poi vertically, so that the handle is above the poi head (a down-stall). Flick the poi upwards, ending in a vertical stall with the poi head above the handle (an up-stall).
Simple plane change: Do a down-stall in the front plane. Take the poi out spinning in the buzz-saw plane.
Mixed stall-switch 1: Do an up-stall in the front plane. Spin the poi for half a turn in the buzz-saw plane, and do a down-stall.
Mixed stall-switch 2: Do an up-stall in the front plane. Let the poi head drop, while moving your hand in a line forwards (in buzz-saw plane), so that the poi length is taut when horizontal, and then move your hand back to its starting position, resulting in a down stall.
The mixed stall switches could be plane changes or stall switches or both; something changes plane, it starts in one stall and ends in another.
Originally Posted By: Ezuro
Can you clarify how to break plane with your hands only?
i dont think i understand what exactly you mean.
something like a vertical line isolation where you turn 90° with every rise and fall of the poi is the only one i can think of.
'Mixed stall switch 2' would be breaking plane with hands only. What you described is an example of doing that continuously.
I like your description of arrows in the poi head. The poi handle should also be taken into consideration when deciding which plane you are spining in; but it depends what you're spinning. If you're spinning with fire, the position and motion of your hand matters a lot less. If socks, it matters more. ALso, if, as Mother_Natures_Son suggested, you keep the poi head still - the motion of your hand solely defines the plane.
There are masses and masses of variations, especially when you consider horizontal stalls too. And then try with two poi at once. And then try mixing into other moves...
Another note on stall switches; they look particularly effective if you can get the hand and poi head to swap places.
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
Ah. Understand now. Will play with.
Ah. Understand now. Will play with.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
SILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Posted:
I always thought of stall 'switches' as being the pop of a poi in plane (so if you were doing the one up one down stall as in my avatar the stalls would swap)- as I assume G does in the vid linked above. in those the head position does change though (converse to comments above).
Otherwise I just assumed it was plane switching via stalls rather than stall switching (if you see what I mean)?
Nice to see it discussed- it's more and more common- Danny's vids are messing with my head already
I always thought of stall 'switches' as being the pop of a poi in plane (so if you were doing the one up one down stall as in my avatar the stalls would swap)- as I assume G does in the vid linked above. in those the head position does change though (converse to comments above).
Otherwise I just assumed it was plane switching via stalls rather than stall switching (if you see what I mean)?
Nice to see it discussed- it's more and more common- Danny's vids are messing with my head already
The Prodigy
82 posts
82 posts
Posted:
ZOMGZ!
I get your switches now!
I thought it was stalling through plane changes as well.
The one at 3:30 made my jaw drop.
This is going to be fun.
ZOMGZ!
I get your switches now!
I thought it was stalling through plane changes as well.
The one at 3:30 made my jaw drop.
This is going to be fun.
You play with fire,
You're going to get burned.
GOLD Member
Lost in the Lights
101 posts
Location: BC, Canada
Lost in the Lights
101 posts
Location: BC, Canada
Posted:
Oooh. I was playing around with that a while ago with my sock poi.
Oooh. I was playing around with that a while ago with my sock poi.
Risen from the Ashes
The Phoenix shall rise in his royal flaire.
FIND YOUR DESTINY.
SILVER Member
enthusiast
372 posts
Location: Paris, United Kingdom
enthusiast
372 posts
Location: Paris, United Kingdom
Posted:
A whole thread on stall switches eh, how delightful.
Funnily enough Chutters it was in your back garden when I first came across the idea. Not that it's my move, too many poi spinners in too many different locations for people to start laying claim to moves.
I look at stall switching as a stall that switches to it's opposite or mirror stall. i.e. up becomes down and left becomes right. All this movement, however, happens along the same line as the stall. Moving the handle around the poi head would be another variation of point isolation or more specifically poi head isolation. I would treat these two concepts seperately as I feel the visual effect is different.
How many of you guys are going to Southern Lights? Maybe we could have a stall switch play session there.
G.
A whole thread on stall switches eh, how delightful.
Funnily enough Chutters it was in your back garden when I first came across the idea. Not that it's my move, too many poi spinners in too many different locations for people to start laying claim to moves.
I look at stall switching as a stall that switches to it's opposite or mirror stall. i.e. up becomes down and left becomes right. All this movement, however, happens along the same line as the stall. Moving the handle around the poi head would be another variation of point isolation or more specifically poi head isolation. I would treat these two concepts seperately as I feel the visual effect is different.
How many of you guys are going to Southern Lights? Maybe we could have a stall switch play session there.
G.
You can spend hours playing with minutes!
I have seen the light! ........ It was purple <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Fast, late deliveries!
DIAMOND Member
member
147 posts
Location: bangkok,london and somerset, Thailand
member
147 posts
Location: bangkok,london and somerset, Thailand
Posted:
I'm going to southern lights!!!
nature could you re post the link to the video as it does seem to work
I'm going to southern lights!!!
nature could you re post the link to the video as it does seem to work
I love thinking in circles
GOLD Member
.
95 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
.
95 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'll be there, and looking forward to bouncing some poi around!
While I might have bounced my poi around ages ago, and then saw you, G, bouncing them around a couple of years ago, it was only last year I saw you do something that looked good with them, and inspired me to play with them. Cheers.
I'll be there, and looking forward to bouncing some poi around!
While I might have bounced my poi around ages ago, and then saw you, G, bouncing them around a couple of years ago, it was only last year I saw you do something that looked good with them, and inspired me to play with them. Cheers.
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
oh deary deary me.. you and your 3 plane antics G, what *are* we going to do with you...
i wont be there im afraid.. would be great to hang out with you and come up with another 'fundamental theorem of something' with you.. come to australia!
oh deary deary me.. you and your 3 plane antics G, what *are* we going to do with you...
i wont be there im afraid.. would be great to hang out with you and come up with another 'fundamental theorem of something' with you.. come to australia!
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Originally Posted By: pineapple pete come to australia!
Hahah! I'll second that one!
Originally Posted By: pineapple pete come to australia!
Hahah! I'll second that one!
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
*mutters something about absence of tech spinners and general spinning scene in South Africa*
*mutters something about absence of tech spinners and general spinning scene in South Africa*
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
SILVER Member
enthusiast
372 posts
Location: Paris, United Kingdom
enthusiast
372 posts
Location: Paris, United Kingdom
Posted:
Originally Posted By: pineapple petecome to australia!
Love to dude, I'm working on it. I'll be in Hong Kong for christmas and new year so it's the right part of the world ish to launch an assult on you ozzies
Dude, Lorna mentioned something she saw you do that you said I taught you or we figured out together that she wanted to learn. You know, one of those "oh my god, what the hell did you just do?" moves. No further description. Any idea what she's talking about?
Danny, joffjk I'll see you at Southern Lights.
Oh and here is the link to the video mentioned earlier
Originally Posted By: pineapple petecome to australia!
Love to dude, I'm working on it. I'll be in Hong Kong for christmas and new year so it's the right part of the world ish to launch an assult on you ozzies
Dude, Lorna mentioned something she saw you do that you said I taught you or we figured out together that she wanted to learn. You know, one of those "oh my god, what the hell did you just do?" moves. No further description. Any idea what she's talking about?
Danny, joffjk I'll see you at Southern Lights.
Oh and here is the link to the video mentioned earlier
You can spend hours playing with minutes!
I have seen the light! ........ It was purple <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Fast, late deliveries!
GOLD Member
Chillisity!
42 posts
Location: -
Chillisity!
42 posts
Location: -
Posted:
wow i love what he does @ 3.29^^
wow i love what he does @ 3.29^^
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