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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Throughout the world of poi there walk a breed aside from other moves. Many have claimed that they don’t exist, or that they did, but that they died out with some long lost tribe of poi masters, and now they are “just legends”. But, they exist, and not just in the fairy tales we tell young poisters and poiettes to make then scared of the bogie poi that live under their beds.

The Jedi set are the most technical of the most technical moves.
The Jedi set are the poi swinging moves which defy the known laws of the physical world.
For everyone of them, at the moment only a handful are known, is utterly a Jedi move.

Until recently the easiest known move in the the jedi set was a 5 beat weave to reverse 5 beat weave behind the back, preferably done in the wall plane. And yet some exciting new discoveries uncovered using the latest state of the are technology in archeopoilogy. New additions have been threatening to join the ranks of the Jedi set, The Eight Council of Poi demi-gods are currently in congress to determine the place if any of these exciting new finds which include 2 air wraps within the Jedi set.

Not everything is known of the origins of the Jedi set. But it is much hinted in pagan folklaw, that in days of old back in martober two mysterious men, possibly of a tribe of orangeness denoted by their attire met in a misty field in Clay-pham a small village near Londinium. And lo, One of them who may have been the legendary Jedi Tony Touch spaketh unto the other, (the ugly stupid one with poor personal hygiene) who is, it is rumoured to be a distant forefather of the author. (alas the lineage has never been proven).

“That move is utterly Jedi.”

And to the sounds of trumpets from between the legs of a chorus of angels, the Jedi set was gently placed by a large crane amongst the meeting of poiers.
And the quest began...

That was many moons ago, and little remains to document what happened in that original quest...


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BoomShankar
BoomShankar

member
Location: Leeds UK
Member Since: 15th Jul 2003
Total posts: 95
Posted:just tried that elbow grip thing - I can't really get it to work, but my best effort looked quite insane and reminded me of some contact staffing I saw at poi in the park... the way I was trying it was to spin my right poi backwards, send it right over my shoulder until it hit the inside of my elbow and held it there for one spin and then back into my hand.
I suppose this is contact poi in it's own right, and with a few variations linked in this could be a pretty mad new style you've found
We're off to the liquid connected party down in London next weekend, but stay in touch and we'll hook up sometime after that

:Wolfie:


progger

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Ramble ramble ramble.
christ glass you do ramble on.
with posts this long people will start comparing you to pele.

do you want to do an index:

1) introduction (crap dont read it)
2) Airwrap geaneology (boring)
3) diffenece between hyperloops and airwraps (oh)
4) double airwraps question (four leaf clovers)
5) tangle buzzsaws
6) crap about fountains (shouldn't really be in this thread, but I was typing)
7) crap about extended fountains (also shouldn't really be in this thread, but I was still typing)
8) crap about reverse fountains (I started it I'll put whatever rubbish i want in)
9) Footnote: Beats are dead !!! (no really, actually this is the only bit worth reading
10) goodbye (thank god) and poipoipoi is skill
11) something to help me search for this post in future.
_______________________________________________

1) Introduction

Coffee break. and I thought I'd write a digest of all the answers that have been asked in other thread recently in poi moves section aaaannnnndd
a few other things that I was going to post months back.
_______________________________________________

2) origins?????????
Airwrap: straight 2 beat airwrap:
I dont know the origins I reckon it was a lucky **** up then some dudes spent a long time trying to repeat it,
I learnt them from the Wes glowsticker video after learning hyperloops.
probably originated individually in more than one place, wait for arashi to say collective conciousness

First of the airwrap family I saw were from an old skool poi god trying to learn to do them years back, it was something like a hyperloop but might not have been, might have been an airwrap and a bad memory damn I wish I had a camera then.

Took me about 2 years after that to get something like them to be vaguely solid-ish.
_______________________________________________

3)
There are 3 differences between a hyperloop and an airwrap.
1)Hyperloop done on the middle of the chain, the middle of both chains unless they go wrong, (airwraps generally about 1/4 or 1/3 from the fire)
2)Hyperloop has a translation of the hands normally this is just sideways so you get a 2 circle hyperloop (airwraps hands stayed pretty still, because of fasssst glowstick origin, happens really fast, no time to move hands much )

3)But here the trickey bugger to get 3 circles you can also add translation where the hands carry round the circle, oohh did someone say isolation.
Yep the 3rd circle in a 3 circle hyperloop is an isolation circle. (Eeeeeep) thats why 3 circle hyperloops are sooo ****ing hard.

take out number 3 and you get the much more sensible 2 circle hyperloop which is much better.

now for the moment most of the mid chain airwraps are either closer to a hyperloop or closer to an airwrap.
the whole hands at 3oclock/9oclock or 12 oclock/6oclock is irrelevent, its just easier way of teaching them.

They're not difficult if you have a good teacher. we taught a non-poi spinner to do hyperloops in 15 minutes for a laugh one night!
_______________________________________________

Any one got a consistent way of doing double airwraps??
4 circles without moving hands
I get them about as regular as
a four leaf clover.
Im not working on them, but Id appreciate a how to?
I got them a lot more when I was learning airwraps
but I haven't seen one in months
___________________________________________

Tangle buzzsaws. you Can make them generate and keep going by taking them into quarter time, richee showed me this neat idea.
but Its not my style so I never done it.
Dom/richee can describe
__________________________________________________
while Im here might as well make it a bit of a digest and answer some of those questions that get posted every 2 weeks:
Definitions:

Fountain:
is cross follow(*see footnote below) to reverse cross follow in the wall plane taken high in front of the face (rev to fwd) and low( fwd to rev) as it comes in front of you.
The tricky bit is to spread all the little circles really neatly and evenly around a big circle.
If you think it has a windmill in, then sorry thats entirely my fault.
There are 5 little circles and 1 big one chopped up into little bits with each poi. (Although almost every description you see of this move will have the number of circles counted wrong)
Good video of this on the gandinis site, spun really cleanly, but the numbering is wrong!!
___________________________
better than a fountain Is an:
Extended fountain
Add in a windmill behind the head as it goes up to you head
So its cross follow to (low transition)
reverse cross follow (up the the shoulders)
windmill
back to cross follow
thats got to be something like 7 little circles and 1 big one chopped up into little bits with each poi.
enjoy
__________________________________________

9) Just for the twisted
Reverse fountains. spin the poi in the same direction, but make the great circle go the wrong way, this is from the book of wrong poi, its academic, nerdy and fun.
(really close the flower end of the fountain family)
mmmmm flowers
_____________________________

* this is footnote
Oi why did you call it cross follow when nearly everyone on hop calls it a 3 beat weave !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beats are dead dude
beats are dead.
Theyre just a lie we use to teach newbies some moves. (NYC )

So 3 circle weave Or cross-follow for the oldskool
Po-p trivia quiz

how many beats in a 3 beat weave(cross-follow)?
If your answered 3 you score no points
trick question, lets try another one

How many circles in a 3 circle weave?
3
(well actually there 6, but 3 on each side, that will do) 1 point

so how many beats are there in a circle?
1,2,3,4,5 (unusual), 6, 7 or more (pretty rare)
Depends on the speed of the music, and how fast your spinning but usually somewhere between 1 and 16 for me.
Blatantly as many as you want.

So how many beats in a cross-follow now?


Music has beats
poi have circles.
Its fundamental, and its really important, if you try pushing the envelope of how you can corrupt this relationship of beats to circles. Play speed.

Do you remember where you were the first time you saw a cross follow with an extra loop?

And as for 4 and 5 circle weave, screw it, theres no need to count, just thing of the extra loop the wrist wrap as a movement in itself, and you can throw it into your follow time spinning anywhere.

Did you just put the death of beats as a footnote
Yep
Cockey shit
______________________________________________

10) You might notice that theres nothing new here with poi, at the weekend I spun for the first time in about 2 months J that explain why.
nuuuuu stuff all with ball and clubs

what that poipoipoi said There is only 1 move,
he understands and hes got rude style,
watch out for that poipoipoi hes super badass poi dude.

Whoop whoop
Glass

11) Qwertyuiop

[ 14. October 2003, 11:49: Message edited by: Glss ]


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:seems im not the only one writing essays tonight!

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Cheers Drew - it's been too long.

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:3) 4+ beat hype-rrrrrloops well dooood i figure maybe work on doing isolations with just a horizontal movement rather than following the whole circle with your hands. you can do 4 beat hyperloops pretty easily then, though they open up a bit for me when i get to the other side. but then that's okay in my style. plus having shorter chains i believe helps immensely. no wait actually if you get the horizontal minimized isolation you could do it with long chains too. that is if i even know which airwrap you're talking about

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Hmmmm......

POI THEO(R)IST

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:hey richee long time no tangle

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:more stuff about hyperloops and airwraps posted here

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:halloween is coming, i just saw the headless horseman doing 7 beat maxi pluses! man that guy can rip the chains! get it you'd have to have no head.
okay let's not try silly tonight
4)i also would like to see a four beat airwrap (being with frozen hands.) any style of 1 beat airwrap should resolve itself right away, you would have to pull your hands away from the pivot point, wouldn't you?
you can do a maxi plus airwrap with totally frozen hands but that has 6 beats. there's a 4 beat somewhere in the stalling out of the 2/3/end of a maxi plus airwrap that's pointed downward. but does that count? cuz it resolves itself by one wick falling and the other just keeping on and backing away from the knot.
this is buggin me cuz i seem to remember doing one somewhere too, but mayhap it could have been a species in the one beat butterfly genus. maybe you could do it so that you were coming into the planes backwards at first with the angular momentum in it's proper angle, and then it would take 4 beats to resolve the wrap. and flip. yup that's it... runs out to get his chains...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:ouch i just tried to figure out how to do them and hit my hand so hard with the tangle that i think i pooped a blood vessel. oops i mean popped man it hurts

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:or i guess actually it's a vein. you know the big branching blue tubes with the vavles and the blood. well first it swelled up really big, like the width of my finger and now it's barely there like it's been shut off at the valve above it. weird okay maybe i'm a bit bored now that i can't spin

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:quote: I suppose this is contact poi in it's own right, and with a few variations linked in this could be a pretty mad new style you've found found is right but new is not! there's at least one guy in NZ who can make the chains contact crawl all over his body like snakes, cradling them in various joints (elbow, neck, etc.) while they spin and throwing or sliding them over his body into other joints, spinning, turning and then doing it even sicker. just so we all have some perspective man, anybody wanna buy me a ticket to NZ? i'm READY TO GO!!!!!

for gods' sakes please somebody else post before i commit an internet faux pas here and glass spanks me.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:actually my tooshie is feeling neglected

5 posts in a row COME AND SPANK ME BIG BOY


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:here you go, glass is workin

actually i recon we should all meet up in NZ. that would be rockin.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:wow i didn't know anyone from england would ever say "reckon" you guys just keep on surprising me

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:I'm gonna dole out some reckoning on your ass.
till its red n black n blue all over

there does that make you feel betterer


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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:okay my hand got better so i had time to remember the 4 beat. i was right, it's in the one beat bfly genus. hard to describe? yes. but if you know one beat bfly airwraps well it's pretty do-able. fwd bfly, you have to cross your left hand over and push in to the tangle about 10:00 on left chain, 12:00 on right. the right poi MUST be going faster than left, or else it will be a simple airwrap and come undone. if your angle is right both will flip to the other side, crossover point straight down, (and now the poi are under your left elbow doing a smaller circle coming up toward you with a half of both chains in the wrap)and do a full revolution for another beat each poi. that makes 4. then two beats fwd bfly on the front again outside of the tangle.

that is if i take your terminology correct... if you cross over with your hands during an airwrap, it's a hyperloop, if you don't and you keep your hands still, and the wrap resolves itself, its an airwrap or at least a kind of airwrap.
but how do you call a maxi plus done just like an airwrap with frozen hands, for example? i'm sorry to say i'm still a bit confused, or i see a hole. i go by the move used to enter the wrap. maxi plus, and i suppose most other hyperloops can be done without crossing the hands over, n'es pa? but i see how you would devide them differently, cuz really they _are_ different moves and i'll admit you are a bigger geek than i
still praying he knows what we are talking about


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Well I for 1 dont have a scooby!

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:not a scrabby.


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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:uhh... what no scoopedy?
it's a "one beat" (1/2 + 1/2) butterfly airwrap combined with a "hook" airwrap, with trajectories that take it around to the back and then fall forward for the last 1/2 circle. really i mean come on,what else could i type? i mean, other than, "twas brillig, and the slithey toves did gire and gimble in the wabe"
that's it... i'm renaming all my airwraps from gordian knots to JABBERWOCKIES


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i hereby start the 'get arashi to england to explain wtf all this crazy shit is that he's always on about' fund.

i pledge 10 pounds.

i don't do butterfly airwraps - does this mean its okay that i don't understand either?

completely agree with the second half of arashi's post up there though - as i mentioned in the other tangly thread.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:I'll throw in 10 or 15 Euros, but only if you set the date for Arashi's arrival in England sometime after January so I can make a weekend trip to London while he is there (while Hopefully be living in Berlin by then).

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:i'll throw in a used condom i found by the river!

just kidding....


i will come visit though if he comes here....


i allready met one of his disiples[sp?] at glasto.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:sitting by the door with bags packed tapping his foot

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:scooby = scooby doo = clue

I pledge a tenner too.

but whos gonna pay my travel expenses?

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:depends on where yer goin

speakin of whych, when you comin back this way, Arashi?? Still have yer CD, n a ton of music fer ya if you come back


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:music?!?! yayaya! well, me an a hundred thousand feral screaming japanese girls have a cosmic collusion, that's where i'm headed next. if i get a show in that part of the world, you'll be the firsta know.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

Jez
addict
Location: UK, London
Member Since: 11th Apr 2001
Total posts: 642
Posted:Don't want to say you are wrong glass, cause you know your stuff but...

Poi DO have beats and you CAN count them.

For example fwds 3beat count how many times the poi cross your feet each side. 3 times on the left and 3times on your right!

bkwds u count it coming over your shoulder 3 to your left and 3 to your right.

So the beat notation is correct cause it does not matter where you are doing the movement you can still count the beats before it moves to the other side.

As it happens it makes no difference what it is called anyways cause a hyperloop is not called that because the poi go through hyperdimensional planes or the like, or the windmill does not create windmills around you therefore recreating your own little part of Holland where ever you spin.

No point to my post really just feeling a bit pedantic tonight!

If you want to refute my argument would be interested to know what is wrong with my analogy.


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:jez - beats are only good for describing basic, symmetrical moves.

the fountain is example number one where beats fall over.
seems like it has twelve to me but others disagree.
here its the big arm circle problem - count one full arm circle and you get 1 beat.
now do a full arm circle with four small circles evenly spaced through it - does that add up to four or five beats...?

example number two comes from asymmetrical moves - goofy weaves and the like.

play with speed changes and you're buggered too - so example number three might be 'how many beats in a butterfly waistwrap when you spin 2:1 circles behind you'?

tangles are the fourth thing that mess beats up (you can still count beats but it's clearer to count in circles since the beats are not evenly spaced anymore).

isolation stuff isn't even worth thinking about.


mind you, i never did like counting beats so i might be just a little biased


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Jez
addict
Location: UK, London
Member Since: 11th Apr 2001
Total posts: 642
Posted:NOT circles I did not mention circles. count the poi NOT circles. Works with any move even in isolation I just checked!

'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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