Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Inversion Tutorial
Login/Join to ParticipateThe Prodigy
82 posts
82 posts
Posted:
I've noticed that on the net there aren't many tutorials for inversions,
so Ase X and myself hooked one up.
Let us know if it helped you =]
Comments and critiques are always welcome,
and be sure to listen closely for info on how to win a pair of sock poi!
I've noticed that on the net there aren't many tutorials for inversions,
so Ase X and myself hooked one up.
Let us know if it helped you =]
Comments and critiques are always welcome,
and be sure to listen closely for info on how to win a pair of sock poi!
You play with fire,
You're going to get burned.
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Originally Posted By: ExuroComments and critiques are always welcome,
My two cents here would be that its probably slightly long for what is essentially just different applications of a buzzsaw inversion.
Quite worthwhile, of course, but 8 mins is an awfully long time, there were points in there that I feel you could have made somewhat more concise. I guess its got to be less like you're explaining how to do it to a friend, who has all the time in the world, and would benefit from going slowly to a video that is clear and concise enough that can be viewed a few times during different stages of understanding.
Doing it 1 at a time in reverse was a good addition, I feel, could also have been done forwards.
The point about the hyperloop was good, but I feel you could have mentioned it slightly faster if you'd said something along the lines that a hyperloop and this inversion are essentially the same, but in the inversion your arms move so the poi don't twist up. Isolating a hyperloop will show this pretty well.
Apologies if I seem like I'm making too much negative comment, I just thought it'd be important to you since you are slapping your companies logo on the whole presentation.
Anyways, good effort for throwing up a tutorial, I know what it can be like in not getting around to do these things.
}
Oh, and perhaps a look at the prize?
Originally Posted By: ExuroComments and critiques are always welcome,
My two cents here would be that its probably slightly long for what is essentially just different applications of a buzzsaw inversion.
Quite worthwhile, of course, but 8 mins is an awfully long time, there were points in there that I feel you could have made somewhat more concise. I guess its got to be less like you're explaining how to do it to a friend, who has all the time in the world, and would benefit from going slowly to a video that is clear and concise enough that can be viewed a few times during different stages of understanding.
Doing it 1 at a time in reverse was a good addition, I feel, could also have been done forwards.
The point about the hyperloop was good, but I feel you could have mentioned it slightly faster if you'd said something along the lines that a hyperloop and this inversion are essentially the same, but in the inversion your arms move so the poi don't twist up. Isolating a hyperloop will show this pretty well.
Apologies if I seem like I'm making too much negative comment, I just thought it'd be important to you since you are slapping your companies logo on the whole presentation.
Anyways, good effort for throwing up a tutorial, I know what it can be like in not getting around to do these things.
}Oh, and perhaps a look at the prize?
GOLD Member
Golf buggie driving instructor
156 posts
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Golf buggie driving instructor
156 posts
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Posted:
Nice work putting this up!
videos and tutorials are something we need more of!
If i can chime in with my 2 cents on semantics: I would call this a barrel-roll.
A barrel-roll being a type of inversion (2 beat i think). same with the butterfly 'inversion' being more of a butterfly barrel-roll.
From my understanding, only one poi has to come on the inside plane to be called an inversion. at 2:20 on this vidoe felix (i think) starts demonstrating some other inversions.
i may be wrong tho as names change depending where you are
again great to see the video up!
Nice work putting this up!
videos and tutorials are something we need more of!
If i can chime in with my 2 cents on semantics: I would call this a barrel-roll.
A barrel-roll being a type of inversion (2 beat i think). same with the butterfly 'inversion' being more of a butterfly barrel-roll.
From my understanding, only one poi has to come on the inside plane to be called an inversion. at 2:20 on this vidoe felix (i think) starts demonstrating some other inversions.
i may be wrong tho as names change depending where you are
again great to see the video up!
The Prodigy
82 posts
82 posts
Posted:
Thanks for the response!
we just filmed it last night, and it's our first shot at a tutorial so your input is much appreciated!
--Exuro
Thanks for the response!
we just filmed it last night, and it's our first shot at a tutorial so your input is much appreciated!
--Exuro
You play with fire,
You're going to get burned.
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Yes, Dag, you're correct its whats commonly called a Barrel Roll. The butterfly one is what I'd refer to as a butterfly barrel roll.
There are different "degrees" of inversion, I dunno how thats all classified, but I do know that an inverted weave (Which has one poi inverted at any one time) Is a different degree than this, which has both poi inverted. But I think there are 3 degrees, so with 2 poi its not that simple... Straitjackets, maybe?
Its all a form of "Negative space" play though, if you had checked out the other thread on the go about that.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1228467949)
Yes, Dag, you're correct its whats commonly called a Barrel Roll. The butterfly one is what I'd refer to as a butterfly barrel roll.
There are different "degrees" of inversion, I dunno how thats all classified, but I do know that an inverted weave (Which has one poi inverted at any one time) Is a different degree than this, which has both poi inverted. But I think there are 3 degrees, so with 2 poi its not that simple... Straitjackets, maybe?
Its all a form of "Negative space" play though, if you had checked out the other thread on the go about that.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1228467949)
The Prodigy
82 posts
82 posts
Posted:
The internet and Burning man are the only places i've heard it called a barrel roll,
but it would be good to include alternate names for a move in a tutorial eh?
It's all good food for thought on a rehashed version of the tut
--Exuro
The internet and Burning man are the only places i've heard it called a barrel roll,
but it would be good to include alternate names for a move in a tutorial eh?
It's all good food for thought on a rehashed version of the tut
--Exuro
You play with fire,
You're going to get burned.
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
Inside planes and inversion planes are framed by different body parts. There is a lot of confusion about this, but here is how I interpret the standard definitions:
Inversion planes - Are framed in between both of your arms. I like to think of this a an inversion frame. As an example, a buzzsaw is a sustained 0-degree inversion. If your poi are inverted, they are NOT inside! Once you are in an inverted position, you can just keep looping that inversion over and over, just like you sustain a buzzsaw. You can see Felix do this in the above posted video.
Inside planes - Are framed in between your torso and your arms. I like to think of this as an inside frame. If your poi are inside they are NOT inverted. A good example of passing through an inversion frame is during the inward pointing half of a watermill (AKA wallplane weave).
Degrees of crossover or twist - Not to be confused with 360 degrees in a circle. If your arms or poi have crossed each otehr once, that is 1 degree, and you are in a 1st-degree position. If you have crossed over and then kept twisting around to cross over again, then you are in a 2nd-degree position... so o and so forth 3, 4, etc. If our crossover nexus is at your wrists or arms, you are weaving, ie a 5-beat weave has you twist 2x so it is a 2nd-degree weave. if instead the nexus is at your tethers then you are tangling, ie 2 twists in the tether is a 2nd-degree tangle. This also works with through wraps.
So, to clarify, a barrel roll inversion that you see in Felix's vid is a 1st-degree inversion. So is the "butterfly barrel roll". he does. Some of the other stuff he does that aren't wrapped around each other are 0-degree inversions. He also does an introversion.
I don't find it useful to think of inversions in terms of beats. If you do one (sub)cycle of barrel roll in the middle of a 3-beat weave, the entire pattern will have 5 beats per cycle. however you can just lock into as many barrel rolls as you like there before you untwist, so you can have an arbitrarily large number of beats sandwiched in between to halves of a 3-beat weave... and then on the way back through the barrel roll you could lock in to a different number of beats, or skip it all together. No real need for symmetry here. So I'd rather think of sandwiching some cycles in a x-degree inversion between y-degree of twist on either side of it.
To further clarify, inversions don't use insides. However you could instead do your arbitrarily large beat inversion weave as a type of watermill, and untwist and twist to y-degrees in the inside frame, only to do another arbitrary number of inversion cycles framed in between your arms before finally getting to the outside again.
... and that is just scratching the surface. I didn't even break it down to inswings, and didn't explain introversions...
Google Rev's "Spherculist Manifesto"... and then prepare for your brain to bleed abit!
Inside planes and inversion planes are framed by different body parts. There is a lot of confusion about this, but here is how I interpret the standard definitions:
Inversion planes - Are framed in between both of your arms. I like to think of this a an inversion frame. As an example, a buzzsaw is a sustained 0-degree inversion. If your poi are inverted, they are NOT inside! Once you are in an inverted position, you can just keep looping that inversion over and over, just like you sustain a buzzsaw. You can see Felix do this in the above posted video.
Inside planes - Are framed in between your torso and your arms. I like to think of this as an inside frame. If your poi are inside they are NOT inverted. A good example of passing through an inversion frame is during the inward pointing half of a watermill (AKA wallplane weave).
Degrees of crossover or twist - Not to be confused with 360 degrees in a circle. If your arms or poi have crossed each otehr once, that is 1 degree, and you are in a 1st-degree position. If you have crossed over and then kept twisting around to cross over again, then you are in a 2nd-degree position... so o and so forth 3, 4, etc. If our crossover nexus is at your wrists or arms, you are weaving, ie a 5-beat weave has you twist 2x so it is a 2nd-degree weave. if instead the nexus is at your tethers then you are tangling, ie 2 twists in the tether is a 2nd-degree tangle. This also works with through wraps.
So, to clarify, a barrel roll inversion that you see in Felix's vid is a 1st-degree inversion. So is the "butterfly barrel roll". he does. Some of the other stuff he does that aren't wrapped around each other are 0-degree inversions. He also does an introversion.
I don't find it useful to think of inversions in terms of beats. If you do one (sub)cycle of barrel roll in the middle of a 3-beat weave, the entire pattern will have 5 beats per cycle. however you can just lock into as many barrel rolls as you like there before you untwist, so you can have an arbitrarily large number of beats sandwiched in between to halves of a 3-beat weave... and then on the way back through the barrel roll you could lock in to a different number of beats, or skip it all together. No real need for symmetry here. So I'd rather think of sandwiching some cycles in a x-degree inversion between y-degree of twist on either side of it.
To further clarify, inversions don't use insides. However you could instead do your arbitrarily large beat inversion weave as a type of watermill, and untwist and twist to y-degrees in the inside frame, only to do another arbitrary number of inversion cycles framed in between your arms before finally getting to the outside again.
... and that is just scratching the surface. I didn't even break it down to inswings, and didn't explain introversions...
Google Rev's "Spherculist Manifesto"... and then prepare for your brain to bleed abit!
+Alien Jon
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
Also, I have to say, since this stuff has been thoroughly discussed and refined in years past, to the point where there is a rather definitive treatise on it over at Spherculism... this post should be in the beginner poi section.
Also, I have to say, since this stuff has been thoroughly discussed and refined in years past, to the point where there is a rather definitive treatise on it over at Spherculism... this post should be in the beginner poi section.
+Alien Jon
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Inverted weave - 0 degree inversion??
Spherculist manifesto is bookmarked... shall be read bit by bit... to prevent fainting from internal hemorrhaging.
Spherculist manifesto
As well as... Videos that are related to the spherculist manifesto 0
...would be helpful to anyone else wishing to follow the trail of blood I'm sure I'll leave behind. Give me a reassuring pat if you find me lying by the wayside.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1229587486)
Inverted weave - 0 degree inversion??
Spherculist manifesto is bookmarked... shall be read bit by bit... to prevent fainting from internal hemorrhaging.
Spherculist manifesto
As well as... Videos that are related to the spherculist manifesto 0
...would be helpful to anyone else wishing to follow the trail of blood I'm sure I'll leave behind. Give me a reassuring pat if you find me lying by the wayside.
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1229587486)
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
Heheh. Will do. Although, I think I read most of it and it seemed to make sense at the time....
Heheh. Will do. Although, I think I read most of it and it seemed to make sense at the time....
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
jon, isnt the barrel roll a 2nd degree of inversion, with the first degree being the not-coleman and all that malarky?
but i do agree with you, this should probably be in beginners, it has already been well discussed prior to creation of the advanced forum
jon, isnt the barrel roll a 2nd degree of inversion, with the first degree being the not-coleman and all that malarky?
but i do agree with you, this should probably be in beginners, it has already been well discussed prior to creation of the advanced forum
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
Originally Posted By: AlienJonGoogle Rev's "Spherculist Manifesto"... and then prepare for your brain to bleed abit!
+1
rev nails it with this.
should def be in beginners section too.
Originally Posted By: AlienJonGoogle Rev's "Spherculist Manifesto"... and then prepare for your brain to bleed abit!
+1
rev nails it with this.
should def be in beginners section too.
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: pineapple petejon, isnt the barrel roll a 2nd degree of inversion, with the first degree being the not-coleman and all that malarky?...
Nope! Notcoleman aka buzzsaw weave, and the wrong weave, etc are all 0-degree inversions... If you can separate your hands with out going into a hyperloop, then it is a good bet it's 0-degree.
If on the other hand, the poi are rolling around your wrists, barrel roll style, that is equivalent to the 1 degree of twist you have in your average hyperloop. This is made clear when you pull your hands apart from a barrel roll and find yourself in a hyperloop.
My first guess at a second degree inversion would be like a hyperloop with 2 tangles in it, but at your arms... this is problematic since you don't have some man joints in your arms to work with. So I'd say if you can do a barrel roll where the poi is also through-wrapping in addition, that would be a type of 2nd-degree inversion!
Hmmm, Sleepy time!
-Alien Jon
Originally Posted By: pineapple petejon, isnt the barrel roll a 2nd degree of inversion, with the first degree being the not-coleman and all that malarky?...
Nope! Notcoleman aka buzzsaw weave, and the wrong weave, etc are all 0-degree inversions... If you can separate your hands with out going into a hyperloop, then it is a good bet it's 0-degree.
If on the other hand, the poi are rolling around your wrists, barrel roll style, that is equivalent to the 1 degree of twist you have in your average hyperloop. This is made clear when you pull your hands apart from a barrel roll and find yourself in a hyperloop.
My first guess at a second degree inversion would be like a hyperloop with 2 tangles in it, but at your arms... this is problematic since you don't have some man joints in your arms to work with. So I'd say if you can do a barrel roll where the poi is also through-wrapping in addition, that would be a type of 2nd-degree inversion!
Hmmm, Sleepy time!
-Alien Jon
+Alien Jon
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