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FIRE_SPINNER
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

member
Location: New South Wales

Total posts: 87
Posted:hi
does anybody know what white fuel or napatha is called in australia


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FireByNite
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 349
Posted:check this page out http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml
br>
depends on what you're wanting it for but if it's normal spinning just use kero (kerosene) smile

EDITED_BY: nite_owl (1128332683)


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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FIRE_SPINNER
BRONZE Member since Nov 2004

member
Location: New South Wales

Total posts: 87
Posted:shellite
mobilite
shell and mobil are both chain petrol (gas for americans)stations
i know were to get shellite
but were would i get white gas
and i am guessing that i can get mobilite from the local mobil
thanks


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FireByNite
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 349
Posted:you could also try local hardware stores, oh & that info I found on google in 2 mins. Good luck weavesmiley

Are you up for it?
wink;)

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Fire spinner, Shellite is as close to white gas as you will get in oz. They are much the same anyhow, basically ULPetrol without the additives, and are not recommended for most fiery things. Most people use Kero, Firewater, Shellsol, or D 60.



(edit - D 60 is mostly petroleum naphtha, and a more like petrol than shellsol which is a isoparaffin)

EDITED_BY: Stone (1128462021)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:For more info check out these links:





Shell isoparaffins



The Fuel Name FAQ


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rusto
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

Rusto

member
Location: Gold Coast, Qld

Total posts: 47
Posted:I use Colemans fuel, can't stand smell of Kero & Citronella, some fire safety guides don't recomend it but it works for me.

Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
A bowl of soup with some one you love is better than steak with some one you hate. Proverbs 15, 17

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Sparkfire


Fire coach - Cirque du Soleil
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:.
EDITED_BY: Pyroptix (1196216621)


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Blayzen Butterfly
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

member
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Total posts: 62
Posted:If your in Melbourne there's a place there called Juggle Art. One of my all time favourite shop's. They have a fuel called Fire Water. It's not the cheapest but has low smoke and virtually no odder. It's the only fuel I use now.

"You dozed, and watched the night revealing
The thousand sordid images
Of which your soul was constituted"

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Moka
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Moka

is a medium/large scary man
Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Mi...

Total posts: 420
Posted:I aggree with Blayzen, Firewater is one of the best fuels around for twirling... I've also used shellsol and that works a treat... As for the white gas or naptha, Aussie Disposals sell it as Colemans or Shellite so maybe look there... Though I wouldn't recommend it in it's pure state for twirling... Alot of people recommend mixing it...

Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Hi Stone,

I may have misread your post, but if you are saying d60 is more like petrol than shellsol, um, sorry, that's not right.

I'm reading an MSDS for it, which states that d60 is one of the group of paraffins marketed by Shell as Shellsols. (Which just means solvents sold by Shell!)



With a flash point of 66 degrees, (about 15 degrees higher than the fuels sold in juggle shops) d60 is so not-explosive it is not even classified as a dangerous material (in therms of transproting). Which of course makes it very different to petrol, 'white gas' or any of the other highly explosive low flash point fuels. Though it is still classified as hazardous in terms of eg sticking it your mouth..



Other varieties of shellsol include d70 and ShellsholT (also called KsolT) which used to be common, and marketed in various juggle/fireshops. It is not sold now in Austrlalia. THat's why a lot of us have gone to d60.



ALL the things we burn (unless yr a seriously vegan hippy burning vegetable oil!) come under the very wide classification "petroleum hydrocarbons".. or 'the very very many things you get when you refine oil'

Hope that helps

EDITED_BY: newgabe (1131883410)


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Dunno newgabe, Ill check it out. The can of D60 that I got the info off says 100% petroleum naphtha (not kero). Someone at work also said that the 60 represents the boiling point. Will get back l8r, cheers smile

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:What Shell market as Shellsol D60 can be described as a paraffin, a naphtha, a paraffinic naphtha, a hydrocarbon, etcetc... These terms overlap, and they are all correct.



Definition of naphtha:



1. Any of several highly volatile, flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons distilled from petroleum, coal tar, and natural gas and used as fuel, as solvents, and in making various chemicals.



To learn more:

read this



Once upon a time ALL petroleum products used to be called Naphtha.. hence we have a chap asking for 'white gas or naphtha' and someone else saying 'd60 is naptha like petrol..." Well, it is a naphtha.

For our purposes (how fast you want a fuel to catch fire/explode) petrol and d60 are opposite ends of the spectrum. But in terms of all the chemicals in the world, they are quite similar (as opposed to, say, volcanic lava and milk)



According to the MSDS, 66 is the flash point of d60. Boiling point is 187-210 C.

Autoignition is 225

Specific gravity is .78


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414

Sparkfire


Fire coach - Cirque du Soleil
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:From shells site:

The number behind the D-grade indicates the minimum flash point in degrees centigrade

SHELLSOL D60

SHELLSOL D60 is derived from selected petroleum feedstocks which have been highly refined and reacted with hydrogen to convert aromatics to cycloparaffins. This deep hydrogenation results in products of controlled composition with very low aromatic contents, negligible reactive impurities and a low, sweet odour. SHELLSOL D60 consists predominantly of C10-C12 paraffins and naphthenics.

SHELLSOL DSC

In the range of aliphatics, SHELLSOL DSC is a narrow cut hydrocarbon solvent manufactured specifically to combine a flash point >61C (>142F) with fast drying characteristics. It has undergone a high degree of general refining that results in a low level of impurities such as sulphur, olefins and aromatics and also leads to a high stability and a low odour. Despite the faster evaporation, with a flash point >61C, for transport SHELLSOL DSC generally may be classified as combustible rather than as flammable liquid.

SHELLSOL D70

In the range of aliphatics, SHELLSOL D70 is a slower evaporating hydrocarbon solvent. It has undergone a high degree of general refining that results in a low level of impurities such as sulphur, olefins and aromatics and also leads to a high stability

anyone see anything on the MSDS's why D70 or DSC couldn't be used?


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:D70 is used. smile

It was what they burned at Common Ground and I am about to go outside and have a spin with it right now!



The MSDS I have includes both d60 and d70. d60 flashpoint is 66 and d70's is something like 72. Negligible difference. I was at the fuel wholesalers (GSB) just yesterday and talked about all this with them. They only had one drum of d60 to hand so they gave me some d70 as well. Nice helpful folks they are, they are quite tickled to chat with firespinning mummies, makes a change from truckies!


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Written by: Rusto

I use Colemans fuel, can't stand smell of Kero & Citronella, some fire safety guides don't recomend it but it works for me.



Citronella shouldn't really be used anyway as it can trigger asthma attacks, definately not a good idea to use it when performing/in proximity of people who you don't know, as so many people have asthma.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Good spot newgabe. I think me chemist mate must have meant flashpoint with the D numbers. Ill ask him about napthas and paraffins.

With a flashpoint of around 60 deg. C Shell D 60 is nowhere near as volatile as petrol or Shellite (flash points around minus 40 deg C ). Though, there must be some differences because D 60 seems the choice over Shellsol TK. I can get some D 120, so Ill look it up and perhaps give it a whirl.


wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:and paraffinic naphthas... wink

One thing I have found in practice is that the higher flashpoint fuels seem to have been a bit harder on my grass.. dunno if they're a little greasier/harder to evaporate.. and can be a littel harder to light, specially the first light of the night..after that it seems to get easier...


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:One thing I got asked last night and was unsure about:
IS it ok to use turps? (i.e turpentine paint thinner) Is it actually just paraffin based or are there even more nasty dangerous elements to it?


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:No,it isn't a good idea to use turps.



This has been discussed in eg this, and other threads previously.

Good idea to search the forums, cos often there has already been an answer. Otherwsie someone might poke you for being angelic but lazy wink



Learn to look up the MSDS (material safety data sheet) of substances on the internet; Eg you will find the flashpoint of turps is 30. That is not as low as what some people use (eg the very volatile white gas) but obviously below what a lot of us are tending to (the higher flashpoint odourless fuels.) Becasue they are generally sold as industrial solvents ( unless you have a juggle shop around that repackages and resells them), you might have to buy a drum. then you can do your mates a favour and sell it on cheap to them.



The other point is toxicity, and this is what is discussed in the link above.







.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:
Hello, i always feel out of place in the tech forums, but bear with me...

So, I'm bumping this cuz it has nice info on D70 which has been very helpful in my plight.

However, what i'd like to know is has anyone tried using D70 for tracing/eating? If so, how did it go? would you recomend it? does it do trails with the tracing?

(more interested in tracing at the moment, eating's still a bit scary, i like my teeth too much, but i'd like to know out of curiosity anyways)


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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havocangel


member


Total posts: 53
Posted: Written by: Rusto


I use Colemans fuel, can't stand smell of Kero & Citronella, some fire safety guides don't recomend it but it works for me.



Coleman's fule is napatha, also known as pure white gas, or camping fule. If you're trying to find some though, just look at hardware stores or camping supply stores.


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jono


newbie


Total posts: 2
Posted:its called firesol or firelite.if your in queensland you can get it at gooble warming or down at the goldie at palm beach there is a twirling shop there

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TotalEclipse
GOLD Member since Aug 2006

Member
Location: Nr Petersfield

Total posts: 120
Posted:For the reference of future searchers for fuel names, I stumbled across this page which has some fuels that are not mentioned on the the article at the top of this thread.

http://web.mit.edu/mitoc/www/activities/hiking/fuel.html


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I might add that Shellsol D60 has been compared to "Fire Water"

They's is the same thing... grin


hug

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:Speaking of uel names. I'm after some denatured alcohol or pure methylated spirit (UK) anyone know the best place? mostly as I'm doing the old coloured flames, wondered if minralised meths woould effect colour due to minerals.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:i know around here most hardware stores have the denatured alcohol near the paint thinners and such.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonI might add that Shellsol D60 has been compared to "Fire Water"

They's is the same thing... grin

No, they generally is not. d60, isopar G etc are names given by refiners/chemical wholesalers for industrial solvent/lubricants used in eg the printing industry. Here in Bris many of us have been buying directly from the chemical bulk suppliers for years, and find that different chemicals which are potential fire fuels are available at different times. Isopar G, the fuel I have been buying lately (in preference to d60) is used to lubricate sheet steel. It currently sells for about $85 for a 20 litre drum and is very clean.

'Firewater', 'Firesol' etc are brand names used by juggling shops who buy these sorts of chemicals in bulk, repackage and market them to firetwirlers. Those shops may or may not use d60- but usually they do not. Sometimes I call the local juggling shops and ask them what they are currently repackaging. It has only rarely been d60, which has a slightly higher flash point and therefore is slighty harder to set alight, is smokier and slightly smellier than the fuels (often Isopar G or H; previously KsolT etc) that are sold as Firewater or Firesol. Some people prefer d60 as it is not as 'flashy'- not as bright a flame, but also noticeably cooler-- this is useful practicing new stuff, also for contact staffers/ people with large wicks.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Originally Posted By: TotalEclipseFor the reference of future searchers for fuel names, I stumbled across this page which has some fuels that are not mentioned on the the article at the top of this thread.

<a href="http://web.mit.edu/mitoc/www/activities/hiking/fuel.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://web.mit.edu/mitoc/www/activities/hiking/fuel.html</a>

Well, that is a list, but does not add much to the discussion on fire fuels.
THe Australian varieties listed are:
Kerosene | Petrol | Shellite | methylated spirits|, of which kerosene is the only vaguely useful one, and it is disgusting- which is why nearly everyone uses d60, Firewater etc.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Does anyone use any of the BP products? I am looking around for options, but I can only find MSDS for those is Aus and do not know how they compare to Shell/Engen in RSA.

I have looked at the solvents, but am not really sure what would work. Currently I use paraffin, which I think you call Kerosene, yeah? Am looking for something with less residue.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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