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Forums > Social Discussion > Atheist advertising on London buses FTW!

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
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Total posts: 10530
Posted:Just caught this on the news.

Awesome

Thoughts?


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Mynci... it was just an analogy. I did state not to draw any quality judgements from it. (Like benefits of vegetables) And if its just attacking the validity, thats why I mentioned slander campaigns. ^_^

Broccoli gives you cancer, didn't you know?

You do have a point on Agnostic vs atheist. I view myself as agnostic and I'm not particularly careful about offending any god that may exist... I merely trust that this God knows I mean no harm and have true good intent up to my chin.

As a side note I quite enjoy bashing out theories on God and such... musing the existence of gods that have no real knowledge of what we think, but still have the power to create and manifest existence as we know it. Ramble ramble. Is a separate thread for religious discussion taboo do we think?

Edit: No, I know that I don't make 100% sense, but thats ok.

EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1224834592)


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Good post there Mynci...

So why advertise "something that isn't there" ?

A: Intelligent Design

That, and some people like to sort out the differences of opinion of their imaginary friends by using guns and bombs.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Personally I would disapprove of contradictory bible verses being advertised, as it's counterproductive and not what this campaign wants.

If we get this big obstacle out of the way, that a(ny one) religion claims to have found the (only) "key to god", this planet would be a better place already with a lot less bloodshed and conflict. We are facing the situation where the term "god" is raped for political interest, where none holds a positive proof that "god" as to their definition really exists.

It mostly is an ego-driven game of domination, across all belief systems (including Patchwork, New Age, Buddhism - pick it yourself). This "holier-than-thou" attitude has caused too much struggling for power already and this is why I love this campaign.

Just get on with your lives, have a cup of tea, exchange ideas if you may but live and let live.

Basic values have been established already - there is no reasonable philosophy that approves of killing, theft, adultery, opression and whoever claims otherwise (IMHO) is either abusing the philosophy for political power games or has not understood the scripts.

If one finds the idea and practices of Islam suiting his temperament - let him practise it. Another finds Judaism more appealing? So be it. Whatever it takes to make people happy in their own threshold and as long as they keep it to themselves without interfering with other people's spirituality, it's okay with me.

It seems as if Hinduism (in itself) has gotten and is practising this idea already - unfortunately it's not yet fully involving the other religions but within it's own philosophy it has completed the task already... once we come to understand that all these ideas are the "emanation of the one" (call it as you may), peace prevails...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:The problem I find with the main religions as against to Atheism is the fact that Atheist seem to come from every nation, every colour, creed, upbringing and station whereas religions tend to be nationalised or group some way among a particular culture. I think that's where the animosity rises from. Also atheists tend to believe the same things whereas I've seen a large difference in viewpoints just within christianity and islam faiths. What's the point of a religion where people within the religion have different beliefs.
That all said, the only problem I see with advertising atheism is the fact we could start having other religious recruiting on buses.
"Catholicism... our leader wears the tallest hat! come join us" shrug
or
"Hari Krishna's yeah we're a little loopy but we love bright colours and we alrady have your airports!
or
"Don't like pork! Islams for you!"
Although I can't see religious leaders beinig quite so blithe or self mocking as that as to try and make people comfortable with the religion by making people laugh like the atheism ones.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Recruiting is already everywhere, billboards, tv, magazines its on the news, its in our schools.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:Schools I'll agree with and boards outside churches yeah But I've never seen and ad on TV saying "join religion because it's so God damn cool" bin fact I believe the News is possibly one of the things Steering people towards atheism.
The schools is my biggest annoyance. I was forced to go to religious services at school because I wasn't of the "recognised religions". Jews, Mulims etc didn't have to go but atheists did because it wasn;t a religion in fact I think the few of us there were were seen as fair game.
I got kicked out of a religious education lesson at school and told to see the head because of the following dialogue in the first lesson
teacher - "Ok who's christian" (counts hands)
teacher - "now who's muslim" (Counts again)
teacher - "Any agnostics" (counts to 2)
teacher - "I don't suppose we have any atheists do we?" (2 hands go up)
Teacher (to me) - "Surely you're too young to NOT believe in God?"
Me - "In that case then I must be too young to believe in God"
teacher - "Stop being cheeky, get out, now, and go and report to the Head Master!"

eek I was appalled even at 13 I wasn't allowed back in for 3 weeks in case I disrupted learning of children who wanted to learn about God.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:That really does suck, Mynci. My personal belief is that God doesn't expect us to believe in him at all.. just to do our best to the others in his creation... if he exists. tongue2 But I don't think ostracising people because they don't believe in him was ever part of the plan.

But my reply to the television comment... Merry Christianmas, Mynci.

Join Christianity kids... we'll give you presents!

Edit: Forgive me if the cynicism seems to be directed at you, Mynci. hug


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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:bah that's just advertising Coca Cola and santa laugh3 Jesus is only a bit part in that story now.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:The entire festival is good exposure for the Christian faith.

"We've been really happy with the way that the whole Christmas campaign, its done a great job at establishing norms in the Western markets." -Vatican Cities chief marketing expert.


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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

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Posted:i hate christmas for this reason. ever since about four years ago when i devised my 8 step pirate plan to destroy christmas. (it hasnt been very effective yet :A:)

i disagree on the news part Mynci, theres always reports in our local news of interfaith festivals and increases in attendance for eastersunday and that sort of thing. i think its more likely to sway someone locally.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Get over your sob stories, guys and finally enjoy the movie wink

There are so many kill-joys out there, who apparantly just grunt in order to test your faith (me probably included from times to times) or who just check whether your faith is based upon knowledge or belief... try treating them like unwanted thoughts: either ignore them or ask yourself "why do I have to face that one now?" any which way: let them pass and *points up* enjoy your movie... There is no insult as long as you don't take it....


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:And now.....


Billboards


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simta
BRONZE Member since Apr 2006

simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings, England (UK)

Total posts: 1182
Posted:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,450445,00.html


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

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Posted:Originally Posted By: simtahttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,450445,00.html

hoorah, public advertising spreads smile


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
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Total posts: 10530
Posted:So this is worth a giggle I think.

If you have the google tool bar (if not, why not? tongue2 ), start typing in "why are atheists" and then see what auto suggest has to say for itself. ^_^


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

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Posted:LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL laugh3 ahahahahahaha thats like how you used to time french military victories, and it would come up "did you mean french military defeats?" grin

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

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Posted:Originally Posted By: Mr MajestikLOL LOL LOL LOL LOL laugh3 ahahahahahaha thats like how you used to time french military victories, and it would come up "did you mean french military defeats?" grin

Yeah man! I was just chatting with my girlfriend about that... weiiiird.

Good old Albinoblacksheep. Doesn't quite look right anymore 'cos google changed their colour scheme.

Anyways, sorry for the offtopic


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:The American advertising raises a good point. Religious types always say that without God, then there's no moral compass.

First of all, I eschew the concept of morality. Morality means that you are answerable to a God, and God has this nasty habit of condoning all sorts of really awful behavior.

So I have no morals at all. Instead, I have ethics. I have one prime ethic which is "Primum non nocere." "First, do no harm." When I take an action, I ask whether it is likely to harm myself or anyone else and if the answer is yes, then I don't take that action.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Point being that "G.O.D" really is only a combination of three letters... it depends on what you associate with it.

Also when you say "harm" then it depends on what you associate with this term... sometimes it's necessary to take an action that is likely to be disliked by him who receives it. Take a parents action against their children... the children like it? Not always. Will it harm them? Maybe in the moment - depending on the measure and what your definition of "harm" is - but maybe in the long term they might even benefit...

It's a bit offtopic and I will go back into oblivion, stating that karma is created by action - as well as "non-action"...

Thanks for your kind attention... wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Meanie


Snowplow


Total posts: 18
Posted:An ignorant atheist is just as blind as an ignorant religious person.

I'm an atheist by the way. In the sense I do not follow any known religion or cult. I do however have an inclination to the facts of history, science and mythology. I do believe there is more to life than currently presented, but in what form I don't know.

Fact is there is a lot of bullshit going around in spiritual, scientific and historic terms.

One thing that struck me ass very iconic for what I mean is the fact that the question about religion always comes down to: Do you believe in Adam and Eve or Darwin? I find it preposterous that this is the limit people can think. Sure there are things hinting to Darwin. And he might be partially or even mostly right. But considering modern humans are only about 100.000 years old and have evolved from apes to humans, and all other life we know of needing multiple millions of years to evolve into something slightly different is quite interesting. But also the theorie of Adam and Eve is interesting since it has quite some reference to ancient mythologies. It should of course be looked at symbolic and not factual.

We have to accept the fact we don't know a lot. We are being trapped in to a dogmatic way of thinking that severely limits us all.

There is no open debate about anything. Neither science nor religion, politics, or history. It's all based on a fixed belief system. If you step out of the parameters of that system, you are ridiculed.

Examples:
Global warming, 9/11, growing Earth and related planetary theories and even a lot of history is being ignored(tobacco in Egypt, similarities between all ancient cultures). If you think outside the box you are ignored.

My point is. Religion is just a tool of ignorance, but it doesn't exclude atheists from being ignorant as well.

I believe in freedom and human potential. That's what I also find in Poi btw grin


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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls., Engla...

Total posts: 756
Posted:Originally Posted By: MeanieBut considering modern humans are only about 100.000 years old and have evolved from apes to humans, and all other life we know of needing multiple millions of years to evolve into something slightly different is quite interesting.

And completely inaccurate. Sorry.

'Modern' humans have been around for around 250,000- 400,000 years, depending on the estimate, but we don't have all that much definite evidence (and no, that isn't indicating a problem, just not much stays around for 400,000 years, and there weren't very many humans at that time). The proto-human fossil record goes back (again, not complete, and again, there's no reason to suppose it should be) for several millions of years. Amd we are still biologically classed as apes.

Re the second part of your statement, some life forms have been recorded as changing extremely fast (look up 'peppered moth' for the classic example) when there's enough pressure to do so. Look at the variety of dogs, humans have selected mutations in that case, rather than natural pressures- but a poodle, and a great dane, and a pug's ancestors were all wolves less than 50,000 years ago. It gives you some idea of how much a species can change- and after all, 'species' is only the label we use, there is no defining moment when one species becomes another.

Yeah, there's a fair bit we don't know about evolution, and the theory has changed a fair bit since Darwin's day (after all, he had no idea about genes, or any of the triggers for mutation)- but you can't post about ignorance in atheism with an argument like that.. wink


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Originally Posted By: MeanieSure there are things hinting to Darwin. And he might be partially or even mostly right. But considering modern humans are only about 100.000 years old and have evolved from apes to humans, and all other life we know of needing multiple millions of years to evolve into something slightly different is quite interesting.

That statement would appear to be based in a lack of understanding of evolutionary theory. There really is no doubt in Darwins theory amongst those who have researched it. Dawkins will has been known to say that he "will believe it until a better thoery comes along" but that is just the language of science. We should all be willing to believe any new thoery over our previously held idea's if it happens to be a better answer to a problem.

I'd suggest reading Richard Dawkins "The Ancestors Tale" ( Amazon.co.uk) if you need any further persuasion.

Yes, science is being abused at the moment as a political lobbying tool. The one thing that you can believe with regard to science is that the truth will always come out eventually. The other way to look at it is that all sides of a scientific argument are out there if you choose to look for them. There are very much 3 sides to the global warming lobby as well as a large agnostic portion of the scientific community.

I'm glad that this advertising is spreading. I also would urge others to support the Out Campaign by changing their facebook status to "I am an athiest" (or agnostic etc) on the 20th of March 2009. Facebook Event Link


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Meanie


Snowplow


Total posts: 18
Posted:Originally Posted By: Seye
That statement would appear to be based in a lack of understanding of evolutionary theory. There really is no doubt in Darwins theory amongst those who have researched it. Dawkins will has been known to say that he "will believe it until a better thoery comes along" but that is just the language of science. We should all be willing to believe any new thoery over our previously held idea's if it happens to be a better answer to a problem.

I don't claim to be an expert on evolutionary theories. My point is that thinking outside the box is ridiculed. but I think you understood that, so don't take this the wrong way wink

Originally Posted By: SeyeI'd suggest reading Richard Dawkins "The Ancestors Tale" ( Amazon.co.uk) if you need any further persuasion.

I might actually do that eventually. But for now my "to read" list is way too big wink

Originally Posted By: SeyeYes, science is being abused at the moment as a political lobbying tool. The one thing that you can believe with regard to science is that the truth will always come out eventually. The other way to look at it is that all sides of a scientific argument are out there if you choose to look for them. There are very much 3 sides to the global warming lobby as well as a large agnostic portion of the scientific community.

Indeed!

Originally Posted By: SeyeI'm glad that this advertising is spreading. I also would urge others to support the Out Campaign by changing their facebook status to "I am an athiest" (or agnostic etc) on the 20th of March 2009. Facebook Event Link

Thanks for the link!


Fire + Idiot * wind - brains = Oops

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Meanie


Snowplow


Total posts: 18
Posted:Originally Posted By: hamamelis 'Modern' humans have been around for around 250,000- 400,000 years, depending on the estimate, but we don't have all that much definite evidence (and no, that isn't indicating a problem, just not much stays around for 400,000 years, and there weren't very many humans at that time). The proto-human fossil record goes back (again, not complete, and again, there's no reason to suppose it should be) for several millions of years. Amd we are still biologically classed as apes.

Originally Posted By: hamamelis Re the second part of your statement, some life forms have been recorded as changing extremely fast (look up 'peppered moth' for the classic example) when there's enough pressure to do so. Look at the variety of dogs, humans have selected mutations in that case, rather than natural pressures- but a poodle, and a great dane, and a pug's ancestors were all wolves less than 50,000 years ago. It gives you some idea of how much a species can change- and after all, 'species' is only the label we use, there is no defining moment when one species becomes another.

A peppered moth for example is a form of life that relies on mass. Like pretty much all small animals, the more there are, the bigger the chance for a succesful evolution. Wolves have only evolved into all the sub species under influence of domestication. Early domestication already made changes, because unwanted traits were not continued. Modern dogs as far as my knowledge on this goes exist completely due to breeding programs.

Originally Posted By: hamamelis Yeah, there's a fair bit we don't know about evolution, and the theory has changed a fair bit since Darwin's day (after all, he had no idea about genes, or any of the triggers for mutation)- but you can't post about ignorance in atheism with an argument like that.. wink

Well, my overall point was that it doesn't really matter what cubicle you fit in to. Science and darwinism was just an example to show how dogmatic main stream science, religion, history and politics really are. Many are being pushed into a cubicle of either religion, or an accepted theory. You can't step out of that, because of social pressure in the respective cubicle. Cults and some sub-religions are prime examples of that.


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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

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Posted:Originally Posted By: MeanieOne thing that struck me ass very iconic for what I mean is the fact that the question about religion always comes down to: Do you believe in Adam and Eve or Darwin? I find it preposterous that this is the limit people can think.

EXACTLY!

my greatest opposition to intelligent design V evolution is that it isnt even an arguement! intelligent design is about what caused existance whereas evolution is how living creatures function in their environment. they are completely separate issues.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hi MM

You might just want to do a little research and revisit the statements you made in the above post smile

There is a raging argument re ID vs ToE. Id was created specifically to counter the ToE and market as a "science" in order to re introduce religion into schools...basically.

This bit,

Quote:what caused existance

is really genesis vs abiogenesis ( God made life vs life just happened )

and this bit

Quote:how living creatures function in their environment.

is biology.

All these arguments boil down to presenting evidence, as to which theory is "more" valid. Problem is, ToE is still evolving as new discoveries are made while ID just pulls things out of it's arse and is mainly trying to raise enough doubt as to the validity of the ToE, opening the door for a stronger existence of God argument.

It's really atheism vs theism, both vying for the minds of the agnostics.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:There are 2 schools of thought amongst scientists on how it all started...

There are those who believe it is pointless to try to guess. "What lies beyond a singularity?" is essentially a nonsense question to many people.

and

There are those who explore theoretical possibilities. Multiverse theories involving colliding branes (that entire sentence makes absolutely no sense if you havent read the theories - sorry) etc.
Many people are looking to superstring threory to tie everything we currently know together. Its thought that you could then extrapolate what happened before the known universe.

I'm still not convinced but I am extremely interested!


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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
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Posted:Originally Posted By: stoutHi MM
You might just want to do a little research and revisit the statements you made in the above post

no thanks. i hold my view reasonably firmly, although i may not have explained it very well.

i know theres a raging ID vs ToE argument. i just think that when it really boils down to it, people are comparing apples and pears because the terms ID and ToE are not really the issue being argued. i guess they both do present cases for the origin of the species, but id goes further and just says "the origin of everything". they are as you said arguing Atheism V Theism by any other name.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Regarding dogs, it is possible to breed any female dog with any male dog. This makes them all the same species.

IIRC, the definition of species as we use it now is that it is not possible to interbreed between species, only within them.

And string theory? A mathematically elegant cul de sac. Until it can be experimentally verified, it is not worth the reams of paper it is on. Same with the Higgs. (If they do not find it, or understand of matter and how it is made will have to be rethought from the ground up. At least that is how I understand it.)

Regarding evolution, my only real issue with it is what causes greater complexity? Beyond that, I prefer evolution as a theory. ID is lampooned quite well by the Flying Spaghetti Monster theory. wink

But yeah... back to the topic?


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mascot


Mascot

enthusiast


Total posts: 301
Posted:do atheists need to proslyetize?

I used to think not, I used to think it brought us down to their level. Their mad ideas needed to be pushed onto people to survive, atheism doesn't need that it can stand on it's own merits. I hate being preached at, and thought we atheists above such things. I was wrong. There's a battle of ideas going on and pacifism is not a winning strategy. A more atheist world is not inevitable, there has been a religous upsurge, in much of the world intolerance is on the rise. Religous wars and persecution are alive and well. Atheists should spread their views, it's not a religous commandment of course, but it's the right thing to do.

Here's to a more rational world


Walls may have ears but they don't have eyes

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