• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Forums > Social Discussion > Chicago to get "gay-friendly" school

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/13/gay.friendly.school/index.html
br>
I'm opposed to the idea and I'm opposed to NYC's similarly-themed school.

The solution is not to create a "separate-but-equal" institution. We tried that already, remember? The solution is to tackle the root of the problem. If gay students are dropping out and skipping school because of harassment, then tackle the harassment.

Teach mandatory classes in which students are informed what sexual minorities exist, what they are, some common myths about them (gay men are not women in mens' bodies, etc.) and, most importantly, see to it that adults serve as positive role-models and VOCALLY stand up for gay rights, equality, and dignity.

That's what we need to do, not shuffle all the queers off into some building where they won't get hurt.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete Topic

meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:I agree with you, segregation is a bad idea.

Some of what needs to be done falls on parents, and as I'm sure you're well aware, there are some parents who teach hate.

Sure, schools should do their part to tell kids that we aren't just different in sex, or nationality, but also in sexuality. Of course when you use the word "sexuality" in regards to something the school is teaching children, some parents (be them good people or bigots) may be averse to the schools teaching it thinking they should take it into their own hands...

*sigh*

I don't think these problems will be solved in my lifetime, hell, there are still so many racists and misogynists around, and its 2008!

I don't think we'll ever eradicate hate, nor do I think we should just hope for tolerance. We shouldn't have to be tolerated, we should be accepted.

*shrug*


Delete

meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Oh, on a side note, for the people at these schools bullying the GLBT community, some kids are probably afraid to "come out" even to their families.

Having this school would be asking kids to stand up and come out, maybe sooner than they want to, and hell, it just gives bullies a target.

The school itself.


Delete

ElectricBlue
GOLD Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:It is a sad day when they need to make a separate school just so kids are not abused/targeted/disadvantaged because of their sexuality.

I agree with you lightning.

Shouldn't all schools be "gay friendly"


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:With a name like "Pride campus" it really is just making it bloody obvious. Extra segregation isn't needed.

hug

Delete

Ry_Canuck


Master of Mediocrity
Location: St Kilda, Australia

Total posts: 25
Posted:that just seems like a bad idea, If I were a crazy person who was really against gays and suddenly there was just one place I had to protest/attack. Well, that would make it really convient and a way bigger problem wouldn't U think?

Delete

Brenn
PLATINUM Member since Jun 2004

Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 3286
Posted:I would have thought all schools should be 'gay-friendly' as an underlying goal, and not have to stake it out with warm fuzzy words.

And by shuffling "all the queers off into some building where they won't get hurt." as Doc puts it, it centralises them in one place where they can, and will, be victimised by those who oppose their ideals and the school.

Well intentioned, i'm sure, but poorly founded.


&#2384;

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy

Delete

Ry_Canuck


Master of Mediocrity
Location: St Kilda, Australia

Total posts: 25
Posted:Whats with the big push for segration of the kids these days? If it isn't Private Schools, Private Religious School, Now its Gay Friendly Schools?. Whats next, we start mapping the DNA and send people to set schools whose DNA is the most compatible?. Come on, Segration does not teach compassion or understanding. All it does is make you unaware of anything else other then what U do at school. How can some *insert any religion *Fundamentalist kid learn not to hate some other Religion if they get put in to a school where only they go. How can somebody who has been taught that Gays are wrong and sinful or whatever overcome the predjucies if they never actually meet any gay people?. Hate just begets hate. If we would just put a little more effort to be kind and understanding think how better the world will be.

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Originally Posted By: Ry_CanuckWhats next, we start mapping the DNA and send people to set schools whose DNA is the most compatible?}

Now theres an idea.


Schools full of twirlers!!!

Segregate out left and right handed people, so you're not getting nudged by lefties anymore.

Wow, this is going to be great!


hug

Delete

natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:Ridiculous! At 12/13 when people are entering high school, many kids haven't gone through puberty and haven't started making these 'choices/discoveries/assertions' about themselves yet.
It's like offering a 'minorities' school and every geek, nerd, coloured, short, tall, bullied kid can attend.
Who would want to teach at the school that's left over full of the alpha males and females who would be impossible to teach.

I can't imagine anything worse than walking around with a uniform that says "Pride campus" regardless of orientation. Maybe they should make it rainbow too!


Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Who wants to be part of a system that lets these outcasts think that a viable way to solve problem is to run away?

hug

Delete

aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I agree that it is a poorly thought out idea.

Also, are they going to force you to go there, even if you are quite happy where you are?


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Delete

Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I can't say I support the idea either.

So what happens to those students who are bullied for reasons other than being gay ? Or those students who are perceived as being gay, but aren't ? Will they have a special school too ?

How about those that self identify as social outcasts ? How would a person who feels "they don't fit in" be accepted in an alternative school like this ? Might they expect to encounter the same discriminatory attitudes they face in a "heterosexual" school ?

How about bisexual students ? or "questioning" students ?

How about heterosexual transvestites ?

All in all, this school and it's de facto segregation looks like it would cause more problems than it would actually solve.

I mean, a student would have to be "out" to parents, friends and family in order to attend this school...and just what percentage of GBLTQ students are out ?

What about extramural sports ? Might a religious based or traditional school refuse to compete against a team from this school and what might the repercussions be to one of those schools being beaten by "the fags" ?

I'm hoping the statistics quoted in the article linked in the OP are accurate and not a variation on the gay suicide myth ( Paul Gibson, 1989 )

Quote:Whats next, we start mapping the DNA and send people to set schools whose DNA is the most compatible ?

How about schools based on astrological compatibility ? wink


Delete

Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I still believe that single religion schools are just as bad, it's not about celebrating religion it's about cloistering and brain washing the young into a particular view of the world. I understand specialist schools may be required in some instances, but segregation based on colour, religion, sexual preferences seem more likely to forment discord. frown

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

dawndream
GOLD Member since Jul 2008

The answers lie on the horizon
Location: Vancouver, BC

Total posts: 35
Posted:Originally Posted By: natasqiool and every geek, nerd, coloured, short, tall, bullied kid can attend.
Who would want to teach at the school that's left over full of the alpha males and females who would be impossible to teach.

Impossible to teach!? The whole school system caters to these points of view, creating the idea of "normal" in the first place. We need to teach anti-oppression in our schools, really, for everyone because although its greater or smaller for every individual, we've all been oppressed in some way. All violence, exploitation or complete obliviousness is oppression, and it needs to stop.

I see what they are saying though, the people advocating for this just want to be in a place where they feel normal.


foolosopher at your service!

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Honestly... it wouldnt be a school full of alpha males and females, it'd just end up having a new minority to be picked on... perhaps kids that don't have perfect hair or something silly like that... people with freckles... or red hair.

hug

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I have an idea. A gay-friendly karate club.

When I have kids, I'm sure they will catch flak for having two dads. That's why he's going to be put in karate classes at a young age. Martial arts are good for kids, but especially for keeping kids from getting picked on.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:Originally Posted By: daydreamOriginally Posted By: natasqiool and every geek, nerd, coloured, short, tall, bullied kid can attend.
Who would want to teach at the school that's left over full of the alpha males and females who would be impossible to teach.

Impossible to teach!? The whole school system caters to these points of view, creating the idea of "normal" in the first place.

Impossible to teach in that these kids are the bullies and the ones who don't listen in class, seeing as all the geeks and quiet achievers are somewhere else. smile


Delete

Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: daydream
Impossible to teach!? The whole school system caters to these points of view, creating the idea of "normal" in the first place. We need to teach anti-oppression in our schools, really, for everyone because although its greater or smaller for every individual, we've all been oppressed in some way. All violence, exploitation or complete obliviousness is oppression, and it needs to stop.


Do you mean in an invisible backpack kind of way ?


Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Originally Posted By: daydreamImpossible to teach!? The whole school system caters to these points of view, creating the idea of "normal" in the first place. We need to teach anti-oppression in our schools, really, for everyone because although its greater or smaller for every individual, we've all been oppressed in some way. All violence, exploitation or complete obliviousness is oppression, and it needs to stop.

Well, first of all, we need a concept of "normal" so that we can identify "abnormal" and help those kids. But that's more applicable to learning disabilities.

I'm not sure that it's the school system that is the problem. I think it's the culture at large. For most kids in the inner city ghetto, they are homophobic because they have no alternative. Nobody has ever taught them that there is another way to be and no positive role model has ever made the point.

There are those people who cling to their homophobia out of a need to feel superior to someone, or just out of sheer hatred. It's never a religion's fault; religion is a symptom, not the cause. Those people will never be educated or reasoned with. But most people, when faced with the reality that there are gay people around, will react with humanity if they can be reached at a young enough age that they haven't formed fixed worldviews.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Originally Posted By: Doc Lightning

Well, first of all, we need a concept of "normal" so that we can identify "abnormal" and help those kids. But that's more applicable to learning disabilities.



As you said... defining "normal" and "abnormal" is something for the faculty to do in order to assess issues that might arise with that student, either on an educational level or in the way they associate with other learners... I believe what daydream referred to was the concept of "normal" and "abnormal" that the children oppose on one another through the course of their social interactions...

Originally Posted By: Doc LightningI'm not sure that it's the school system that is the problem. I think it's the culture at large. For most kids in the inner city ghetto, they are homophobic because they have no alternative. Nobody has ever taught them that there is another way to be and no positive role model has ever made the point.

How would you propose to fix the problem with "the culture at large?" The school system is the only common thing we have with all others living within our society, how is it not the best place to tackle the problem? By teaching children not only about differences and other such things, but also about the way we interpret things we see in the media and skepticism of stereotypes that we see in films we can begin to overcome the problem.

You yourself stated that if reached at a young enough age there is indeed hope. Ages 6-12 young enough?

Though you might not be able to get all the kids, since their parents may well have too firm a grip on them, you can teach about the historical shift in the representation of different stereotypes in the media which might give them some indication of how their parents views have been constructed.

At a minimum you should be able to make it not as widely accepted to ostracize minorities as it is now.


hug

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:There was an interesting segment on a gay tv show the other night. It was looking at jobs where it's taboo to be "out" and one of them was teaching.

I'm sure we can see why it's taboo in teaching - because of course, gays and paedophiles are the same time :rollseyes:

But it mentioned that to have openly gay teachers in school would be very beneficial to not only the confidence of students who might be confused about their sexuality, but also for straight students to see a member of the gay community functioning in a "normal" capacity.

It didn't go into it anymore than that cos it was only a 5min segment, but was interesting none-the-less. (Segment also mentioned lesbian midwives which was interesting as well!)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I absolutely agree with that, Rouge Dragon. I understand why its a taboo... because people are scared that their children will be perverted by the homosexuality of their teacher... I can understand where this comes from, theres been so much of a brainwashing... anyone remember Scar from the Lion King?

I'm studying to be a teacher... and I would like to see an openly gay teacher... sadly, that won't be me.

I think its interesting to remark that a gay teacher would be more easily accepted by the students that liked him before they found out he was gay than the ones that only meet him after already knowing...


hug

Delete

meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Well, if I become a teacher, I may be an openly gay one, it would probably depend on the staff there.

Coming out at work, which that would be, I have yet to really do. I don't think they need to know, but if they ask, I don't deny it.


Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I understand your point Mike. I think it's a little bit of a different story in NYC because there of the "open enrollment" policy for most NYC schools.

In NYC, there are many specialized high schools. For example, those specializing in certain academics (Like LaGuardia HS is an art HS featured in the movie/tv show "Fame" and there are magnet science schools.) There are also methodology schools where students are taught in small classrooms or discussion groups or lecture halls, etc. There are also special needs schools.

I think in the contest of a large range of specialized High Schools (a concept which I strongly agree with) the phenomena you are bringing up has less of an affect.

If it was a large suburban HS that was sending the gay kids on a short bus down the block, I think it would be a different story.

Another aspect is: the problem is obviously intolerance and homophobia. I'd hate to say to some gay kid "Sorry, you don't get to go to a specialize high school, you go back to your old school and teach those pesky bullies to be more tolerant." In other words, is opposing a specialized high school hurting the gay kids for the faults of the intolerant and ignorant?

***

In other news... This year I took over responsibility as the sponsor of our High School's "Gay-Straight Alliance." It's awesome and I'm suprised at how many comfortable, openly gay High School kids we've got.

In related news, if anybody knows how to get large quantities of pink glitter out of my chem lab, let me know.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Originally Posted By: NYCIn related news, if anybody knows how to get large quantities of pink glitter out of my chem lab, let me know.

lol


Seriously though, instead of making a special school for glbt kids, maybe they should make a special school where they teach bullies a lesson or two... *BUM BUM BUUUMMMMM* and leave everyone else, the glbt kids and all the other kids who aren't bullying or whatever in the school.


Delete

dawndream
GOLD Member since Jul 2008

The answers lie on the horizon
Location: Vancouver, BC

Total posts: 35
Posted:That is one of the best ideas I have ever heard.

foolosopher at your service!

Delete

hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:And the best thing about that idea is- none of the kids would ever show up, so you could save a fortune on teachers, and even rent out the premises! Excellent!

THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

Delete

aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:NYC: Well, the issue to my mind is not so much that they are struggling at present to how much worse can it be? Putting GLBT students into a single school just provides a single target.

There is nothing wrong with a GLBT friendly school, but only allowing them in? And I still want to know how you do get in. Is it choice by parents, students, the state?

I just think that there are more possibilities for problems rather than possibilities for good. I may be wrong, this is all just opinion.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Delete

meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Oh, also, there are kids that are questioning, and then decide they aren't Gay. Should they go or not?

Do you need to have a "Gay Card" to get into the school? Actually, that's a horrible idea, that means that "Gays" are needed to register. Kind of like X-Men, except gay people don't have any cool abilities... well.... they do, but not the kind I'm talking about. =)


Delete

railspinner


railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada

Total posts: 99
Posted:Originally Posted By: Doc Lightninghttp://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/13/gay.friendly.school/index.html

I'm opposed to the idea and I'm opposed to NYC's similarly-themed school.

The solution is not to create a "separate-but-equal" institution. We tried that already, remember? The solution is to tackle the root of the problem. If gay students are dropping out and skipping school because of harassment, then tackle the harassment.

Teach mandatory classes in which students are informed what sexual minorities exist, what they are, some common myths about them (gay men are not women in mens' bodies, etc.) and, most importantly, see to it that adults serve as positive role-models and VOCALLY stand up for gay rights, equality, and dignity.

That's what we need to do, not shuffle all the queers off into some building where they won't get hurt.

I went to a bunch of rural school and small town schools and dropped out in grade 10 (first grade of high school for those with diffrent school systems)

Anyways, I remember our class that was supposed to teach us about personal relationships, sexuality, safe sex, etc.. tried to educate students about diffrent kinds of sexuality and it just created a open forum for gay bashing and tomfoolery. I remember their was a older kid about to graduate who just moved to our school and he was a male to female transeuxual, and he would have fresh scrapes, black eyes, busted lips etc for the whole time of the year the PDR class covered sexuality.

I really don't think you can educate people who hate gays. Their is like a culture of gay hateing in schools that I think will resist any organized effort to change it.

I think any gay parents, or anyone who knows their child is gay should encourage their child to find a martial art that suits them, and find a good instructor.

I wish my parents would allow me to take martial arts when I was young. I got in so many fights in school they were afraid I would be dangerous if I was trained in martial arts. In reality I would have been a lot safer to those who bullied me if I was trained in martial arts. I never even had as rough as a time as the queer's in my schools. what I saw them go through changed my mind when I was young to untrusting and suspicious of queers to understanding and respecting. I think anyone prone to being bullied should learn how to defend themselves effectivly. bullies don't look that cool when they get hip tossed into a locker, pinned by a presure point or are bleeding from a broken nose.

PS-any type of seggregation will probably put all segregated gays at risk of being targeted more so. It's also a victory for the intolerant.

EDITED_BY: railspinner (1224364473)


The less people know the more they believe

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [chicago quot gay friendly quot school] we found the following similar topics.
1. Learn > > > Costa Rica Fire Poi School *help/resource
2. Forums > Chicago to get &quot;gay-friendly&quot; school [48 replies]
3. Forums > Help with school internet security [43 replies]
4. Forums > Need Help with My Sons Project [132 replies]
5. Forums > Chicago Gay Games - Flaggers/Poi to participate in Opening Ceremonies

     Show more..