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Forums > Technical Discussion > whats the deal here??! swivel placement and C2 modules

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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:so im quite confused. As HoP being a pretty big and successful poi bussiness, why are they putting the new ball bearing swivels were there not even neccisarry..at the bottom and not at the handle...preventing superduperuber loops (or w/e you want to call them) to be done easily? I would think they would know better.

Also, the new LED glowstick things that are a ridiculous $160, has any one purchased them? Are they really worth that big of a chunk out of my loot? jeeze, i though flowtoys were expensive...

Sorry if this is coming across to you as complaining or spam, but im a bit curious as to what you guys have to say on this topic.

EDITED_BY: dreadpoi (1222745988)


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:hey dread poi,
what's a superduperuber loop? i'm not sure how the design is stopping yuo from performing any moves - you might have to explain it to me for i am frail and incontinent.

also, 'ideal' pricing is a very personal choice.
i have bought cheap electro glow stuff in the the past (globug, $85 AU) and they were simply too dim and didn't last. I factor in the anticipated years of use and luminescence of a toy (where I live i'm lucky to be able to try out other people's equipment purchases before making my own)

I encourage you to look at all the merits of a toy, not just it's expense, for the lesson i have learnt with cheep < $100 toys is that u get what u pay for.

welcome to the boardz!!*
b


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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:I'm guessing the glowstick things are these?

http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Pair-of-Concentrate-LED-POI-heads
br>
I don't think that's such a ridiculous price for good quality glow toys: these look pretty sturdy and water resistant to me.

If you think that's expensive, you should look at the cost aerotechs and hyperlights. Sure you can go out and buy glowpoi for 15, but they're unlikely to last or have the quality of more expensive products - you get what you pay for


as for swivels PREVENTING sdu loops or orbitals, from my experience I'd say quite the opposite is true: if you've ever tried it with non stretch fabric poi, you'll probably find it harder than ball chain or something with more swivel to it.

shrug



Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:lazyAngel i dont quite understand. ive noticed fabric poi isnt my favorite material if im doing sdu loops. air wraps are fine but when i try to catch it in the middle and have it spin nice and long, a pair of sock poi and any king of sring without swivels at the handle make it difficult and always ends up twisting up too much and prevents it from continuous motion. but my question is, i figured HoP realized that, so why have they placed the swivels at the end where once you do "catch" the sdu loop, its not going to help you at all. sorry if im misunderstanding you, or if im wording this wrong. but i just think its a clear mistake that i wouldnt think HoP would make.

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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:If i understand correctly, you're asking why they put swivels closer to the handle than the head right?

well I can think of a couple of reasons:

1) putting the swivel near the head so the resultant poi is created handle/swivel/fabric/head would be a pretty fiddly construction and resultantly probably more expensive than most fabric poi.

2) Ballchain or indeed most chain gets round this problem and is hence a cheaper, simpler solution

3) the market for poi as described in 1) is probably pretty small and hence not worth investing in considering the number of bases already covered by the current product selection

If i've got it wrong please link to an example of the type of poi you mean so I can understand


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:Im confused. I geuss im wording this wrong.

It wouldnt cost anymore money to place a swivel at the top instead of the bottom. (top being the closest to your hand). its just switching the location. wich would make more sence to make certain "moves" easier. if you watch nick woosleys tutorial on superduperuber loops you might understand what im trying to say a little easier.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Actually Lazyangel, I think he means putting it near the head and not near the handle.

"why are they putting the new ball bearing swivels were there not even neccisarry..at the bottom and not at the handle...preventing superduperuber loops"

But I don't see such a set of poi in the shop at all...

On the LED poi, you DO get what you pay for... under $100 isn't gonna do it... but now theres another contention for my money, those concentrate poi look damn nice... are they what you've got, Bender??


hug

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:ahh so you guys are discussing the C2 poi? I encourage u to please rename the thread topic to something like 'C2 LED poi heads, I want a cheezeburger kthnx' so that others know where to look for the answers.

They're not mine, however they will be made available at CG. Concentrate will be in attendence at the festival if u want direct answers, otherwise try contacting Callan directly on HoP on his callan_concentrate profile.

Everyone's opinion will be shaped by what weight/dimensions they are used to - i prefer heavy (split-6") tube-core fire poi, so LED heads with triple AAA toys gimme the brightness and mass i want.

If cost is your big concern, please keep in mind that the removable LED module is compatible with other glow toys. dreadpoi, I really can't address your concern about the superduper move cus i still have no idea what it looks like but i do understand that if you do like performing that move enough to make it a primary purchasing consideration.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Bender... its what Nick Woolsey has been calling orbitals. smile

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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:for some reason everyone is misunderstanding me....

i think the swivels should be under the fingerloops, not right under the poi ball itself, giving orbitals more spin time. were they are placed now when you order a pair on HoP, is pointless.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:A pair of WHAT? I seriously don't see any that have the swivels near the head...

Throw a link up in here. I just don't see it.


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ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:Honestly if you don't like them look some where else?? ever thought that not every person who does poi wants to do you uber supber dkd loops or what ever they are called?

I actually really like having the swivels at the ball end rather than the handle end i find that they do a better job of stopping my poi from getting twisted up if they are near the ball.

Just because something does not suit your personal needs/tastes does not mean hop is being stupid or is wrong, people have different likes and dislikes in poi.

It is quite fine to ask questions but making blanket, rude and unfriendly statements just because the poi aren't perfect for what YOU want to do is not appropriate.

There are probably valid reasons why the poi are constructed in the way they are, and if you actually asked politely then I'm sure the hop guys would be able to give you an answer or *shock horror* take on board your suggestions.



EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1222756363)


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Aside from the constant flow of misunderstandings on this post, I have one thing to say.

They sell the parts, craft your own if you like.
*shrug*

^_^


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:personally i like ballchain because it swivels all along the chain!
I have never, ever had a problem performing with poi purely because of swivel location - the only practical limitations i've found were more about length and weight distribution.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I agree... can't do throws if the distribution is wrong for it.

Electricblue, he's saying they are near the head and NOT near the handle... precisely as you stated...

And now I see em... the fire poi sets with the swivels down near the head... a la http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Pair-of-25-inch-monkey-fist-twisted-oval-link-FIRE-POI
br>
Do you realise you can take them off and put them up near the handle?? Because of the way oval link can react it tends to be easier to learn with without swivellage near the handle, so you can feel the way the links react.

But I'm just having a punt at it.

Swivellage at the head? I dunno what the benefit is there. I usually use ball chain so I get all round swivellage, I've had no swivel related issues thus far... I am interested to find out however.


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:zomg is that what all the fuss is about? if a poi twirler is elite enough to peform superduperuber loops then surely the hilariously simple task of moving the swivel to the other end of the poi is so minor as to not need to be a major pruchasing requirement?!?

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ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:i'll second that

I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I agree. But I'd still like to know what the benefit of having it down there is, anyway. I've seen people with swivels at either end... there's got to be SOME logic to it... unless its just along the lines of "it can't hurt"

Way I see it... HoP wouldn't put them only on the oval link ones and not any of the others, (even the cord ones) for no reason... I'd like to know its benefits, lest I might enjoy hooking up several swivels to each end of my ball chain poi rig!


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: benderzomg is that what all the fuss is about? if a poi twirler is elite enough to perform superduperuber loops then surely the hilariously simple task of moving the swivel to the other end of the poi is so minor as to not need to be a major purchasing requirement?!?

I'll third that...it's a simple procedure to move all the hardware to the handle end, but ballchain's the way to go IMO.

Personally, I'm not a fan of glow poi/staff...sure I have several sets but I only use them when we get indoor shows so I class them as a necessary evil. That's just me though and obviously there's a market for high end glow toys ( otherwise flowtoys would have gone broke already ) and why shouldn't HoP have a product to cater to that market ?

Maybe thinking of them as Professional Grade would help..


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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:from my point of view, there is merit to having swivels at either end of the poi..

when it comes to normal spinning, the poi head can be set into a bit of a spin itself, this is caused by the natural motion of spinning.. having a swivel at some point in the poi allows for any built up tension to be dissipated.. near the handle allows for the chain and head to act as a separate unit to the hand, yet having the swivel near the head allows for the chain to act individually to the head. with less weight to rotate, it is then more likely that by putting the swivel up the top, it will untwist more readily.. that said, once you get down to this level, youre really splitting hairs..

however, when it comes to the design of these poi, they were probably not designed with orbitals in mind. since orbitals have only started to become widespread in the past year or so, its entirely probable that this was not an issue at the time of design.

furthermore, recent conversations have led me to believe that when performing orbitals, in addition to the handle-half of the chain spinning, the head-half of the poi will also spin, meaning the 'ideal' number of swivels is in fact two places, *both* near the handles and near the head.

really though, just move the swivel and you'll be able to do all the orbitals you want.. alternatively, there are these... a world of swivels at a reasonable price!

as far as the concentrate poi go, they're bright, they're pretty, and judging by the other concentrate glo-gear, are durable.. i'd place them as quite reasonably priced.. alternatively.. you could use these

best of luck in your quest for your perfect poi!

hug


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Basically, the only beneift I can see is to inprove poi burn-offs (otherwise impossible). Hell I have swivels both ends anyway. tongue2

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:rolleyes

Crazy Poiers


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:***deleted****
EDITED_BY: dreadpoi (1222828200)


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:To be fair, dreadpoi, the first sentence in your OP read more along the lines of "Why is HoP making their poi sets wrong"

There's a pretty straightforward answer to that and it all has to do with weight distribution and not having all that extra hardware up near your hands.

After reading that, it's understandable that people might think that there's something amiss here...like why haven't you figured out that you can reconfigure the poi all by yourself if you wanted to focus on orbitals...easy peasy.

In future, if it's info you want, try starting a thread asking about doing orbitals with chains instead.


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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:...uh...alright. my bad. everythings fine.

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MRC
SILVER Member since Jun 2008

MRC

Funky Blessings Daily


Total posts: 215
Posted:It'd also help to use lingo we all understand. This doesn't even regard the typos, goodness knows I make a lot of them. This is about orbitals, or your reference to where the swivels were placed. It would have been helpful if you used the same terms we use.

As for the topic itself, I attached one of these http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Single-multicolour-LED-GLOW-ball-with-attachment-ring
br>to my rope dart. I did so on the link above the swivel because I was lazy and that one came off easier. I realized that wick/ball/whatever wants to rotate on it's while swinging about, my chain was twisting up MUCH more than it ever had before.

Don't know if that helps you or not, but I find that it's there because it helps.


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ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:Dread poi the general tone in your posts was aggressive and insulting.

Yes you have a valid question but it would be wise to think about the way in which you phrase your questions. Remember wording comes across a lot differently when you are reading it as compared to speaking it.

As far as placement of swivels goes i prefer them at the ball end because that way they still work even when i am doing wraps.

Blue
Ps, next time you go calling people illiterate it would be good to revise the spelling and grammar in your own post.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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dreadpoi


stranger
Location: Pittsburgh , PA

Total posts: 16
Posted:If I might add your post wasnt too friendly and welcoming aswell.

overall though, my mistake. Im a member on some other forums not regarding poi, and noone ever comments on typos...unless really neccasary. i geuss i could of used a better word though. sorry to get off at a bad start, when that being basically my first thread. i should of just said nothing i geuss. sorry dude.

Also, its not that I dont know what to do with my poi to make it how i like, I was just curious as to why HoP themselves placed there swivels where they do on most of their poi. now that I think of it this was a completely pointless thread that I should of known would end up in an argument. So much for basically my first thread.

EDITED_BY: dreadpoi (1222828790)


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ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:Yes well it is not common to feel the need to reply to an aggressive thread in a friendly welcoming way.

Thanks for the apology i hope you get to sort out you poi swivels. grin

Also i don't really care about spelling mistakes or grammar, heck i stuff it up all the time, i was merely pointing out that it was a bit ridiculous calling somebody else illiterate and stupid when your own posts were riddled with mistakes.

Blue


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Originally Posted By: dreadpoi now that I think of it this was a completely pointless thread that I should of known would end up in an argument


Dreadpoi, I don't think this is the right attitude... All you needed to do was post a link to the item... put your question out there, the issue came in when you seemed to be making judgements on people (The people who are running homeofpoi...

Originally Posted By: dreadpoi ...As HoP being a pretty big and successful poi bussiness, ... where there not even neccisarry..at the bottom and not at the handle... I would think they would know better.



I'm honestly not having a shot, here. Just a little thought goes a long way.

Good luck with your whirly adventures, theres a wealth of information here in the forums as well as in the library. smile


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callan_concentrate
BRONZE Member since Jun 2008

hmmm
Location: Melbourne Australia

Total posts: 14
Posted:Hey Dread Poi we can make a set of c2 light poi with the swivels attached to the handle end if you like?

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