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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:What is it guys? Students taking arms, walking into schools and killing (innocent) people... I don't get what's behind this... confused2

Not just since Columbine, the history of school shootings go as far back as 1966 (according to this Wiki article) and it's not just in the US - sure the majority of shootings do happen in the US but it's not just there...

Recent shooting in Finland (liberal gun laws, btw)

What message does it hold? I just can't make sense of it frown

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UPDATE:

Most school shootings happen in the USA (reason for that might be the existing gun laws, regardless of other factors)

Namely 41 incidences, starting 1966, with aprox. 162 victims. Mostly the perpetrators got either shot by police or shot themselves...

The Virginia Tech shooting so far has been the on with the highest death toll (33) followed by the first school shooting ever, the "University of Texas at Austin massacre" (17), the "Columbine High School massacre" (15) and the "Red Lake High School massacre" (10).

Only 4 of these shootings did not claim any victims.

It's hard to determine the ethnic background of the perpetrators as often there are no pictures included, but there seem to be only three women and three Asians involved in the killings.

Canada faced 8 shootings with 27 victims, the highest toll at a time having been 15 (including the perpetrator) - the first shooting happened in 1975.

The other 17 shootings have been spread across the globe, with three in Finland, two in Israel, Germany and Finland (to put it in numeric order). But just either one in India, Thailand, Yemen, Philippines, Argentina and Lebanon. There have been more than 90 victims in these shootings, with the highest tolls (at one given time) in Israel (22), the UK (16), Germany (16), followed by Finland (9 and 10).

Outstanding (and therefore not mentioned above) is the "Beslan School Hostage Crisis" where a group of armed rebels took an entire school hostage. In the process of "liberation", at least 334 hostages got killed, including 186 children...

The motifs for these shootings range from sheer insanity (like the first ever/ USA), political (Russia), religious (Israel) over revenge for mobbing to the simple "I don't like Mondays" (Brenda Ann Spencer)...

The perpetrator's ages - the youngest perpetrator having been age 6 (killing a classmate with a pistol he found in his uncle's home) to over 40, having been students or just random strangers to the schools, from (mainly) individuals over teams (like Columbine) or a group of three (Israel).

My initial claim that it's predominantly a white, western, male phenomenon has been intuitively correct - if you happen to have other evidence, I'll be happy to get corrected.

As for discussing the motifs, I guess it's helpful to put aside political and such - as it's clear: the highest possible death toll with the least possible resistance - and suggest we focus on those who went in there as students killing other students.
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EDITED_BY: FireTom (1222525372)
EDIT_REASON: Research


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Stone
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Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
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Posted:Originally Posted By: doppelganger.. I'll sit be my AR-15 and my .45, you sit there with nothing. When the people have lost everything they lose it -- you'll wish you were sitting behind me.

Um, doppelganger what are you referring to, world war III or the invasion of the Martians?


Hi Stout,

Hope you had a good Christmas.

As the shooters tend to come from the families of the good citizens, it would seem that there is at best a weak link between bad parents and the shootings. Therefore, I think we can rule out "bad parenting" as yet another NRA myth.

I chanced across an article by good ol Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman (retired) called Teaching Kids to Kill. He suggests that healthy members of most species have a powerful, natural resistance to killing their own kind. When human beings are overwhelmed with anger and fear their thought processes become very primitive, and they slam head on into that hardwired resistance against killing. During World War II, it was discovered that only 15-20 percent of the individual riflemen would fire at an exposed enemy soldier (Marshall, 1978). That's the reality of the battlefield. Only a small percentage of soldiers are willing and able to kill. When the military became aware of this, they systematically went about the process of fixing this problem. And fix it they did. By Vietnam the firing rate rose to over 90 percent (Grossman, 1999a).

He goes on to blame the media and in particular video games for school shootings. What he neglects to mention is the impact that living in a gun culture has on breaking down the resistance to killing.


EDITED_BY: Stone (1231103078)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rancor
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Posted:I think that my leaders here in America are corrupt and full of lies. I am certain that our USA is going to separate within a few years, and civil war will come.

Some of your countries as well. The bankers are taking over, and consolidating a one world government. We have troops on our streets right now preparing for martial law and civil unrest, as well as over 800 FEMA camps ready to relocate civilian populations to... dare I say concentration camps? I need my guns.

World War III is not that far off... One nuclear strike would be all it takes for America to wipe democracy for good and begin a dictatorship, which I am sure will be met with hostility as we have our sites on China and Russia, who will both destroy us since our BS status of World Power has washed away. Have you guys seen what's going on in Iceland? The attacks on Georgia were false flags set up be my government, SHTF any day now.

I suppose if martians came I would be ready for them as well smile

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Posted:Plus I would rather be shot in the head then decapitated, disemboweled, or given the ol' red smile. If some one wants to kill, they'll kill.

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Stone
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Posted:Come on doppelGanger, you dont need guns to protect yourself from conspiracy theories.

I know, I asked this before but what makes Americans so paranoid? And what is the cause of this fixation/fetish for guns?



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Posted:Originally Posted By: StoneCome on doppelGanger, you dont need guns to protect yourself from conspiracy theories.

I know, I asked this before but what makes Americans so paranoid? And what is the cause of this fixation/fetish for guns?



Well for starters I wouldn't have the guns if I thought they were conspiracies; in fact, I have spent over three years studying "conspiracies" and while they may seem just that, many are far from.

I would imagine the reason we cling to our guns is fear of our government, and when it comes down to it, each other. There are a lot of people out there that love to pretend that things are fine, when in reality they are not.

I keep my arms to protect myself and the ones I love from tyranny, for the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, that time is drawing near and I believe many sheeple will left to slaughter.

I live in Bozeman, that FEMA link references here. I have seen the trains with mine own eyes.

In a perfect world we would not need guns, but this is not a perfect world. There *is* war, whether one likes it or not, just as there is hate and corruption. People should be more vehement in what they stand for; I stand for freedom. When it comes down to it, it's a kill or be killed world.

Everyone is so comfortable in their lives, everyone has their box that tells them what to eat what to wear who to vote for whats popular what's not. The entire media is corrupt, and those who believe it will one day soon have their worlds rocked.

FACT: Fluride in the water retards you and your brain growth, as well as causing sever cancer in bone tissues.
FACT: Chemtrails exist, at least here.
FACT: Of the 200 or so plastic compounds analyzed for the standard in bottling, the one that causes sterilization in males was chosen.
FACT: Cellphones are a public hazard rivaling that of cigarettes, destroying DNA chains with every use, as well as emitting radiation that sterilizes males.
FACT: 9/11 Truth, look at the nitty gritty details.
FACT: HAARP has enough power to cause earthquakes and manipulate weather on a global scale.
FACT: The rainbow lights above China before the earthquakes hit them are exactly the kind that appear over HAARP (Project Bluebeam)
FACT: All of the earthquakes that hit China occured at the exact same distance underground, as well as over twenty other ones recorded off of Alaska (HAARP Headquarters) and numerous positions ion the worlds oceans. Confirm it yourself by looking at the earthquake readings, they are public record.
FACT: China blamed the US for the earthquakes, but the media drowned it out.
FACT: GMO food causes birth defects in lab mice upwards of 50% of the time, mice and humans genes are 4% apart.
FACT: GMO's cause sterilization in those same lab mice.
FACT: HAARP has the ability to manipulate the emotions of people on a large scale. There is a patent for it, I will have to dig around though. Found it: Patent # 4,686,605
FACT: The USA gov has been caught numerous times paying the media to report things that are not true. ie Mercury in vaccinations leads to brain productivity! LIES. Mercury level in water to be classified as contamination is 1 part per million. Vaccinations have 50,000 PPM (mercury) each.
FACT: The male sex is disappearing. Try GOOGLING "The Disappearing Male"

This year has seen more deceit lies and treachery than you can imagine, bankers just robbed the world of its wealth and you've never even heard of Rothchild. Wake up, take a stand instead of believeing everything you hear in your box. I could keep going but I harly think anyone cares about their lives enough to listen.



I have seen the above over my own damn apartment.
Google images CHEMTRAILS






There are eugenicists in this world that want you dead, and they have the money, and power to do it.

I fear I have sidetracked this thread, so I am not going to continue here, but if a conspiracy thread pops up I'd love to join smile

Maybe it is not all true, but I feel at ease knowing I have the provisions to live and survive, something I think the 21st century forgot about; as for the guns, they won't be walking into any schools on their own, and I won't be taking them. Nor will they be robbing banks or killing innocent people.

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Lurch
Lurch

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Posted:oh my...

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Rancor
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Posted:Originally Posted By: Lurchoh my...

Was that sarcasm?


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Stout
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Posted:Hi Stone.

Christmas was great, a white one to boot which is pretty rare around here. How was yours ?

Thanks for the article, Grossman looks like he knows his stuff. Just a WAG, but I'm figuring he left out the gun culture factor because he didn't want to alienate responsible gun owners.

I can't deny that gun culture is a contributing factor to these types of events, but I'm wondering just how big of a factor it is. No way of knowing, really.

But there's "something" that pushes people to commit these types of acts and I'm up for entertaining the idea that a combination of factors lead people to consider these types of actions but there's something BIG, some overwhelming factor that pushes an individual to cross the line between simply thinking about becoming a shooter and actually preparing for, and carrying out the act.

I'm still looking at these as grandiose suicides, with the mass murder part being an extremely graphic "suicide note"


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Stone
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Posted:Originally Posted By: doppelGangerWell for starters I wouldn't have the guns if I thought they were conspiracies; in fact, I have spent over three years studying "conspiracies" and while they may seem just that, many are far from.

doppelGanger, Im left a bit flabbergasted by your conspiracy theories etc. So, Im left wondering what type of university indoctrinates their students with that type of learning for three years.

Hi Stout, yes I heard it was a white Christmas over your way. Ours was very mild, at least 15 oC down on our usual 40 oC plus temps for this time of year. And a little rain, which is always welcome though not so much at harvest time.

As for big overwhelming factors, Id suggest bullying.

Cheers smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rancor
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Posted:doppelGanger, Im left a bit flabbergasted by your conspiracy theories etc. So, Im left wondering what type of university indoctrinates their students with that type of learning for three years.


I apologize, I did not intend for it to sound like I am attending school for it, I am sure you would be hard pressed to find a formal education in truth.

It is self study through documents, a lot of reading, a lot of books. It's hard to sift through the BS, but I don't talk about the things I don't believe in... I think anyone choosing to "call me out" as being flabbergasted should REALLY take a closer look. Try a simple search on any of the things I talk about and you will find a new world open before you, albeit a depressing one... But don't stop there because you can't believe everything you hear obviously, truly look for the facts.

I urged everyone I know to take all of their stocks out and place it in gold months before the banker fraud occurred, and they are all sitting pretty. Try a search on the hidden suppression of gold prices, there are lies and corruption everywhere. People "in the know: are estimating the price of gold to be revealed closer to 2,000-5,000 soon (within a year or so). Why do you think there are so many commercials telling you to trade your gold for cash? Because the worlds monetary system is collapsing, gold never will.

Like I said, above is only the smallest of tastes, and anyone with the slightest drive to say "wait a minute, that is not right" can get past the "conspiracy" and see the truth in it. People pretend that dictators are perfect, or presidents, anyone in power, yet they forget their history... the world has not changed, however there is an influx of information available to everyone but they are too sheepish to LOOK.

EDITED_BY: doppelGanger (1231286999)


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Stone
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Posted:
doppelGanger, I think you should be talking to Stout about conspiracy theories. He is a bit of an expert in the field wink

Ive seen Zeitgeist, and from my point of view, getting involved conspiracy theories is just another way to avoid living. Just like grown men fantasying about saving the world with their guns lol It seems a pity to me that people have so lost the plot in their attempt to find meaning in their materialistic lives that they have to invent fantasies and conspiracy theories to give their life meaning.

Im also wondering why the American male, in particular, has such a problem with authority. Perhaps thats where the guns come in. Owing a gun can give a person the feeling that they are in control, even when they are obviously not, and it certainly allows them to avoid any responsibility for actually taking control of their lives.

I dont have time to go through each one of your examples, so Ill just choose one: The male sex is disappearing. Well, everyone knows the contraceptive pill to blame for male infertility wink

There are lies and corruption everywhere, I know that, but how is knowing about them and owning a gun going to change my life for the better?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rancor
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Posted:I spent a lot of time being depressed and sad about it, I did not enjoy life much, recently however I have said screw it. I don't dwell on it, and I am not avoiding life, I actually have a very good life, a one in a million job, and I try to be happy. I don't have a problem with an honorable authority...

I tell you something though, shooting an assault rifle is exhilarating, and I would not hesitate to put a bullet through the head of someone trying to steal my life. I am not buying more guns, I am content with the ones I have.

PS I think Zeitgeist is BS, their views that is. Even the last video I referenced above had to much shock value for my tastes, I appreciate the simple truth, not an exaggerated rampage on emotion. I still feel better knowing that I won't be going down with out a fight, in fact it is exciting, I would love if the world crumbled and we rediscovered who we are, and valued life that was no longer taken for granted.

I ask you, are you in control with a gun in your face? (purely hypothetical I am not trying to make enemies here smile )

Grown mens fantasies about saving the world are not a fairy tale, how many revolutions has this world seen? How many people have taken a stand against tyranny, armed? This world will see heros soon, and I'll be among them.

In times of change, the Patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot. ~ Twain.

hate me wink


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Stone
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Posted:doppelGanger, I was generalising.

The American War of Independence was 233 years ago. I dont think labelling oneself as a "patriot" somehow magically negates all responsibility to the community, and allows people to mindlessly do what they want.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rancor
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Posted:Originally Posted By: StonedoppelGanger, I was generalising.

The American War of Independence was 233 years ago. I dont think labelling oneself as a "patriot" somehow magically negates all responsibility to the community, and allows people to mindlessly do what they want.


Who is mindlessly doing what they want? And what responsibility have I negated?

And haven't you ever heard history repeats itself. Jeez people you think everything will be peachy from here on out, wake up.

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Stone
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Posted:
Originally Posted By: doppelGangerAnd haven't you ever heard history repeats itself. Jeez people you think everything will be peachy from here on out, wake up.

Arr mr doppelGanger, I think the quote by George Santayana goes something like this:

Quote:Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

At least the Finnish government seems to be taking a responsible approach by regulating guns in order to help prevent further shootings. This is way in advance of the American solution, which as you put it was to arm the teachers.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Lurch
Lurch

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Posted:Pretty sure we've been over that one before in the original Gun thread Stone. We've already discussed the history of mass gun confiscation and control. By in large it's not pretty.

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Stone
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Posted:Originally Posted By: LurchPretty sure we've been over that one before in the original Gun thread Stone. We've already discussed the history of mass gun confiscation and control. By in large it's not pretty.

Lurch, that an interesting comment when as all I was trying to do was bring the thread back on topic. Though, it does highlight what I said earlier about American males, in particular, having a problem with authority. Now, I would not have thought this was a particular issue with school shootings, but now that you have brought it up again, Im left wondering if a poor attitude to authority is one of factors that contribute these types of events. If a poor attitude to authority is contributing to these events, then I'd suggest we look at the role models that these kids folowing.

What do you think?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Lurch
Lurch

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Posted:I don't think American males have a 'poor attitude towards authority.' We do however have a poor attitude towards corruption and oppression. I for one have never had a problem with a fair and just authority figure. In fact you could say I'm working towards becoming the type of person you seem to think I hate... There's a paradox for you..

I've never said we that we should NOT look at the role models of these kids. In fact I've wholly embraced your assumption that our media, our movies, and our music can have an extremely detrimental affect on society. These "role models" that falsely represent American gun culture, or endorse criminal activity are certainly having a negative influence on our youth. The problem is, YOU are not IN American gun culture, and the only representatives of it that you see, are the vocal, outlandish, and irresponsible ones. Those of us that stand up for our rights, and preach responsibility and self control are lost among the masses. Or scorned for seemly "supporting" the nuts that you are so scared of.

None of us want our rights taken away. And yes, to Americans it is a *right*. We understand that certain things must be regulated *reasonably*. And it already is, further regulations will do little to nothing to stop the problems that you are so concerned about.


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Posted:Originally Posted By: LurchI don't think American males have a 'poor attitude towards authority.' We do however have a poor attitude towards corruption and oppression. I for one have never had a problem with a fair and just authority figure. In fact you could say I'm working towards becoming the type of person you seem to think I hate... There's a paradox for you..

I've never said we that we should NOT look at the role models of these kids. In fact I've wholly embraced your assumption that our media, our movies, and our music can have an extremely detrimental affect on society. These "role models" that falsely represent American gun culture, or endorse criminal activity are certainly having a negative influence on our youth. The problem is, YOU are not IN American gun culture, and the only representatives of it that you see, are the vocal, outlandish, and irresponsible ones. Those of us that stand up for our rights, and preach responsibility and self control are lost among the masses. Or scorned for seemly "supporting" the nuts that you are so scared of.

None of us want our rights taken away. And yes, to Americans it is a *right*. We understand that certain things must be regulated *reasonably*. And it already is, further regulations will do little to nothing to stop the problems that you are so concerned about.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

That's what I am talking about!
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If you care to watch this movie, it's only 9 minutes, the key point made in the end: Freedom is only for those with the guts to defend it, and I WILL die a free man while corruption festers across the world.



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Stout
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Posted:The English used firearms in their fox hunts ?

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Stone
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Posted:Lurch, Im trying real hard to stay on topic.

Originally Posted By: Lurch.I don't think American males have a 'poor attitude towards authority.' We do however have a poor attitude towards corruption and oppression. I for one have never had a problem with a fair and just authority figure. In fact you could say I'm working towards becoming the type of person you seem to think I hate... There's a paradox for you..

Lurch, spare me from the spin. What you are really saying is that you dont have a problem with authority, as long it agrees with what you think if far and just. And judging from previous comments, thats is not much. For example, something as simple as having to wear a seat-belt is considered unjust, and an oppression to American males. So is it any wonder that kids dont know right from wrong, and could mistakenly believe that being forced to attend school is corrupt and oppressive.

Originally Posted By: LurchI've never said we that we should NOT look at the role models of these kids. In fact I've wholly embraced your assumption that our media, our movies, and our music can have an extremely detrimental affect on society. These "role models" that falsely represent American gun culture, or endorse criminal activity are certainly having a negative influence on our youth. The problem is, YOU are not IN American gun culture, and the only representatives of it that you see, are the vocal, outlandish, and irresponsible ones. Those of us that stand up for our rights, and preach responsibility and self control are lost among the masses. Or scorned for seemly "supporting" the nuts that you are so scared of.

Ive read enough about the leaders of the NRA to know that they are not good role models for kids. Especially, the attitude that says its acceptable to shoot someone because they deserve to die as condoned by the make my day laws. Im sure its not difficult to imagine a school shooter gunning down his teachers and classmates muttering they deserve to die, for what ever he has imagined they have done.

Originally Posted By: LurchNone of us want our rights taken away. And yes, to Americans it is a *right*. We understand that certain things must be regulated *reasonably*. And it already is, further regulations will do little to nothing to stop the problems that you are so concerned about.

Lurch, you don't know that further regulations will do little to stop the problem of school shootings. That's what you want to believe because it suits you. Sometimes you have to let go of your so called rights for the betterment and safety of the whole community. Having a problem with school shootings and not being prepared to take any action, is the same as supporting the shootings.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Posted:Originally Posted By: StoneLurch, Im trying real hard to stay on topic.

Originally Posted By: Lurch.I don't think American males have a 'poor attitude towards authority.' We do however have a poor attitude towards corruption and oppression. I for one have never had a problem with a fair and just authority figure. In fact you could say I'm working towards becoming the type of person you seem to think I hate... There's a paradox for you..

Lurch, spare me from the spin. What you are really saying is that you dont have a problem with authority, as long it agrees with what you think if far and just. And judging from previous comments, thats is not much. For example, something as simple as having to wear a seat-belt is considered unjust, and an oppression to American males. So is it any wonder that kids dont know right from wrong, and could mistakenly believe that being forced to attend school is corrupt and oppressive.

Originally Posted By: LurchI've never said we that we should NOT look at the role models of these kids. In fact I've wholly embraced your assumption that our media, our movies, and our music can have an extremely detrimental affect on society. These "role models" that falsely represent American gun culture, or endorse criminal activity are certainly having a negative influence on our youth. The problem is, YOU are not IN American gun culture, and the only representatives of it that you see, are the vocal, outlandish, and irresponsible ones. Those of us that stand up for our rights, and preach responsibility and self control are lost among the masses. Or scorned for seemly "supporting" the nuts that you are so scared of.

Ive read enough about the leaders of the NRA to know that they are not good role models for kids. Especially, the attitude that says its acceptable to shoot someone because they deserve to die as condoned by the make my day laws. Im sure its not difficult to imagine a school shooter gunning down his teachers and classmates muttering they deserve to die, for what ever he has imagined they have done.

Originally Posted By: LurchNone of us want our rights taken away. And yes, to Americans it is a *right*. We understand that certain things must be regulated *reasonably*. And it already is, further regulations will do little to nothing to stop the problems that you are so concerned about.

Lurch, you don't know that further regulations will do little to stop the problem of school shootings. That's what you want to believe because it suits you. Sometimes you have to let go of your so called rights for the betterment and safety of the whole community. Having a problem with school shootings and not being prepared to take any action, is the same as supporting the shootings.



I am flabbergasted by those responses... A hell of a lot of assumptions went into that, not facts at all...

The NRA is not a babysitter, parents decide that kind of stuff. NRA members have to be hard and forward about what they preach because, Stone, people like you just don't get it!

Can you imagine the overpopulation we would be facing if guns and violence did not exist? We would be living in each others $hit, knifing everyone all day. Even with guns, we are doomed in the next 100 years at our growth rate. Even if guns are bad, people still need to die, violence still needs to exist, this is the real world, not some hippie fairy tale where everything works out. School shooting suck, if my concealed carry license would let me, I would bring a gun to school every day. One person decides they want to kill everyone, I would end it pretty damn quick. BANG, no more shooter, just one less person to populate the world with filth. However, I am a sitting duck in my firearm free zones, and would likely take a bullet in the head because people with your values want everyone to be unprotected.

You are right Stone, banning guns would definitely get them out of the hands of criminals, no one would bring an illegal gun to a school shooting, they would get in trouble. Drug dealers would comply, gangs would comply, and everything would be peachy keen.

*cough*

Or a reality check would tell you that instead of responsible adults owning guns to protect their family and property, they would have nothing and be left at the mercy of laws you help create where all criminals have weapons and innocents die, including you.


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Stone
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Posted:Well doppelganger, thanks for the reality check. Though, what you are saying seems a bit bizarre to me. You seem to be saying that people need to die and school shootings (even if they suck) are necessary to control population growth, and in America school shootings and violence in general, are a normal and necessary part of life.




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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rancor
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Posted:Originally Posted By: StoneWell doppelganger, thanks for the reality check. Though, what you are saying seems a bit bizarre to me. You seem to be saying that people need to die and school shootings (even if they suck) are necessary to control population growth, and in America school shootings and violence in general, are a normal and necessary part of life.





No I think school shooting are terrible, but banning guns is not the answer to anything except MORE violence (and more brutal violence at that). But yes, violence is a necessary part of life. Did you guys forget that humans are animals too?

EDIT: Only an idiot would think a few school shootings will reduce population growth, you think I am a moron? I thought you would have deduced that on your own. Not trying to be an ass but seriously, if that's the point you took away from what I said I can see why your logic is screwed up and points don't land where they should.

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Stone
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Posted:Originally Posted By: doppelgangerNo I think school shooting are terrible, but banning guns is not the answer to anything except MORE violence (and more brutal violence at that). But yes, violence is a necessary part of life. Did you guys forget that humans are animals too?

Firstly, and Ive asked Lurch this before, but who are you referring to as you guys?

Second, I believe that human beings have more potential than just being animals. The first step in achieving that potential is to respect life. And that is stated in the Bible and every holy book ever written. So my message here is grow up as a nation and stop holding the world back.

Third, all that stuff about banning guns leading to more violence is paranoia. And I never said guns should be banned completely.

Originally Posted By: doppelgangerOnly an idiot would think a few school shootings will reduce population growth, you think I am a moron? I thought you would have deduced that on your own. Not trying to be an ass but seriously, if that's the point you took away from what I said I can see why your logic is screwed up and points don't land where they should.

Well yes, only an idiot would think that shooting people is necessary to reduce population growth. Who did you plan killing instead?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Posted:Originally Posted By: StoneOriginally Posted By: doppelgangerNo I think school shooting are terrible, but banning guns is not the answer to anything except MORE violence (and more brutal violence at that). But yes, violence is a necessary part of life. Did you guys forget that humans are animals too?

Firstly, and Ive asked Lurch this before, but who are you referring to as you guys?

Second, I believe that human beings have more potential than just being animals. The first step in achieving that potential is to respect life. And that is stated in the Bible and every holy book ever written. So my message here is grow up as a nation and stop holding the world back.

Third, all that stuff about banning guns leading to more violence is paranoia. And I never said guns should be banned completely.

Originally Posted By: doppelgangerOnly an idiot would think a few school shootings will reduce population growth, you think I am a moron? I thought you would have deduced that on your own. Not trying to be an ass but seriously, if that's the point you took away from what I said I can see why your logic is screwed up and points don't land where they should.

Well yes, only an idiot would think that shooting people is necessary to reduce population growth. Who did you plan killing instead?



Again you just aren't getting it. I never said guns are the answer to population growth, use your head and read what I wrote. I said without them we would be in a sad state. Without war and violence we would be in a sad state, as terrible as that sound just THINK about it for a second, jeez. By you guys I am referring to you and people who think like you.

We are animals who developed science to make life easier on people, so now a whole lot of people are blobs with BS for opinions. People get spoon fed the things we used to work hard for and respect and now have the audacity to sit back in their arm chairs and dictate how other people should live, F that. Where the hell did the testosterone go in our society? Have you ever had to fend for yourself? Have you ever had to protect anything? I am, going to stop before I begin insulting you, I am just so sick of pansies that think what they think should be what everyone thinks. You can hate guns all you like, but when you try to take them from me, I'll put a bullet just there.

You can think we have all the potential in the world, but that's only because of your comfortable luxury lives, take it away and your an animal with the rest of us, but you have never had to SURVIVE a second in your life or you wouldn't be spewing that nonsense. I would love to see how civil you have evolved to be with nothing to your name and nothing around you for miles, or better yet an uprising you're like to see very soon. Quite feeding me that BS, get a gun and some balls and quite relying on everyone else for everything and you can come talk to me about disarming, you ANIMAL you.


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Stone
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Posted:
Originally Posted By: doppelgangerI'll put a bullet just there

Thanks, I think it might be a good idea to actually develop some personal skills, rather than relying on your gun to solve all your problems.

Originally Posted By: doppelgangerget a gun and some balls and..

So its true, American males define their masculinity by the size of their guns!



Btw, Im a farm boy. I know about life, guns and death, so dont give me all that rubbish about sitting back in a arm chair. Thats another audience you got there.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rancor
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Posted:Originally Posted By: Stone
Originally Posted By: doppelgangerI'll put a bullet just there

Thanks, I think it might be a good idea to actually develop some personal skills, rather than relying on your gun to solve all your problems.

Originally Posted By: doppelgangerget a gun and some balls and..

So its true, American males define their masculinity by the size of their guns!



Btw, Im a farm boy. I know about life, guns and death, so dont give me all that rubbish about sitting back in a arm chair. Thats another audience you got there.

A farm boy gone wrong, what the hell kind of farm boy turns out like that? Masculinity is not about having guns, that comes second to balls. And I have plenty of personal skills with people that have a point, you have done nothing but insult America and generalize everyone that lives here. Just what the hell is your point anyway, so far it has been nothing but arguing points I have not even made. If you are coming to take a gun from me, you can bet your @$$ I won't be shaking your hand.

EDIT: I have a concealed carry license, I have used it one time as a last resort, I know my battles and don't need a gun to win them for me. Anyone that has the license knows you don't just use it because it's there, but you wouldn't have a clue because all of us here in America are un-evolved gun slingers.

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railspinner
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Posted:uh heres the leading causes of death's by percentage world wide.

Cardiovascular disease 29%
Infectious and parasitic disease 19.9%
Ischemic heart disease 12.64%
Malignant neoplasms (cancers) 12.49
Cerebrovascular disease (Stroke) 9.66
Respiratory infections 6.95
Lower respiratory tract infections 6.81
Respiratory diseases 6.49
Unintentional injuries 6.23
HIV/AIDS 4.87
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 4.82
Perinatal conditions 4.32
Digestive diseases 3.45
Diarrheal diseases 3.15
Intentional injuries (suicide, murder, war, etc.) 2.84
etc etc.. full list here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate
br>
you are calling people stupid when you think guns should be legal to deal with over population? Maybe if anthrax and the ricin virus were legal and readily avaible.. but not guns.




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Posted:I never said it was the key cause. And I never called anyone stupid... And if you think every death in war is accounted for and accurate you are wrong, the real death toll in war is far higher.
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