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Forums > Social Chat > The amazing effect of spinning on my personal conciousness.

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I had some reasonably strong feelings on this topic...

Essentially it starts with fluidity of movement... Feeling the way I get to move while doing poi or most recently staff is an uplifting feeling... Letting go and just letting the weight of the toy travel in the direction it wants to travel is a great feeling of freedom to myself.


After picking up a staff for the first time I was even able to adapt a lot of the things I'd learnt with poi in order to create a similar sort of freedom with the new toy...

I hope its not only me that feels this way... is there anyone else out there who feels this way, also?


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Bigfoot67
GOLD Member since Jun 2007

Bigfoot67

Member
Location: Bornem (Belgium)

Total posts: 103
Posted:Trust me, you're not the only one wink weavesmiley

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Brenn
PLATINUM Member since Jun 2004

Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 3286
Posted:Aye smile

It's even better when your fire toy(s) is/are lit and you have some awesome djembe drumming or psy backing to go with it hug


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Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted:Finding your circle. It's like zen...

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Fire tends to upset my spinning a fair bit not because of the fear of the fire, but the constant awareness that I only have a limited amount of time in which to spin with that particular effect. Part of my immense feeling of freedom is that I don't ever have to stop til I need food or collapse from exhaustion.

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted: Written by: Brenn


Aye smile

It's even better when your fire toy(s) is/are lit and you have some awesome djembe drumming or psy backing to go with it hug




This last friday was First Friday in phoenix. It's like an art walk thing. I went to this palce that had like 30-40 drums all going an dopen spinning in the street, the drums just flow thru me and into my staff it was amazing, i spun like 8 times that night it was awesome.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Heh, awesome. I started taking up Djembe with my friend before I hit the poi stage, I'm trying to get him to get into Djembe so we can jam. :P

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Hahaha, I remember this post... and it only gets more and more true as time goes by...

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:after a short affair, i've quit djembe drumming. In a few years time i'd perhaps learn to hit the skin just enough to play for longer, however as it stands it's simply not sustainable for me.

I just hurts my hands too much, and the swelling did not agree with activities involving dexterity like technical twirling or the preparation and consumption of delicious cheese.

I recently completed a meditation (in the buddhist tradition) and believe that some twirling scenarios have limited parallels with awareness-cultivation, however I cannot at this stage even perform a walking meditation without constant distraction. Since i cannot meditate when i walk, I do not believe that the sensory overload of fire dancing is in fact meditation. peaceful, calming, fulfilling, joyful, yes not meditation.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I've also been tampering with meditation... I've found that with the use of some substances you can achieve a lot of the meditative states in the lower reaches of meditation while twirling, but I only attempt this with socks...

Its not OBEs and that kind of thing, but dissociation is possible.


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:^^ oops my post was meant to say '...recently completed a meditation course...'
it really changed what i said ey? smile

i see where u are coming from but i will respectfully disagree. Also, discussing it further prolly is at odds with a family friendly forum.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Aye, I agree. But I'll simply note that its not quite the higher vibrating realms of meditation. And when I say substances, I refer to entheogens, nothing else. ^_^

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:hmm i'm prefer to focus on the practical application of meditation. I don't prescribe to the idea of vibration realms, can't honestly say that i've visited them in any state (one just looks very very drunk to others) - just happy enough to develop pragmatic applications like focus/awareness/calmness.

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I'm skeptical on the vibration realms actually having anything to do with anything external, but I do believe that there are very different stages in meditation that these "vibration realms" are very easy ways to relate internal, abstract experiences to those of other people.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:really recommend you attend the next entheogenesis australis conference (www.entheo.net) event. there's some really nice workshops on that stuff, and the guys that run it are top people. plus there's fire shows, so you can chat/collaborate about the two topics with knowledgeable people to your heart's content wink

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool

Total posts: 464
Posted:Originally Posted By: bender
I recently completed a meditation (in the buddhist tradition) and believe that some twirling scenarios have limited parallels with awareness-cultivation, however I cannot at this stage even perform a walking meditation without constant distraction. Since i cannot meditate when i walk, I do not believe that the sensory overload of fire dancing is in fact meditation. peaceful, calming, fulfilling, joyful, yes not meditation.

I think it really depends on the circumstance. From my knowledge, some meditation utilises things like a candle flame to focus the mind so doing a burn is just having bigger flames. I have always noticed that I always go into a trance-like state when I am really into a burn. The adrenaline rush coupled with pure concentration, pitch black surrounding and the flames rushing around in a rhythmic beat is extremely relaxing. Its amazing how clean your mind becomes during a burn. Its kind of like Tai Chi for dare-devils. The whole world dissolves, the only thing that matters is the present and 2 seconds ahead. Kick ass! grin


Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:From my practice of the "candle flame meditation" I'm clearly not experiencing the same state as fire dancing.
For one, my understanding is that candle practice is aimed at swatting away all the discursive thoughts of over stimulation.
In fire dancing, there is a massive amount of stimulation - the sounds of the loud whoosh, the heat, the sense of danger, bright light, the pressure on my wieght, of clothes against my skin, the need to keep timing, the planning ahead of what i will do in 3 to 5 moves, the mental weight of the eyes of people watching me (including myself), the self assessment of how this routine is going.... my heart is pounding, each and every time I fire dance. Surely your own self-awareness highlights the difference in the amount of discursive thoughts when you are eyes closed on a meditation cushion versus when you are dancing with fire.

I can see where u are coming from -as both practices involve some kind of flame- however for at least my experiences of each are distinctly different: After 8 years I am now peaceful when i fire dance, but when I do I utterly fail in terms of the undistracted meditative state that is the intention of the candle meditation practice.

Each experience is beautiful in it's own way, but for in the way that I understand myself they're clearly not the same.


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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I think juggling is more meditative than twirling - I've been learning 4 clubs recently and very recently have been getting some longer runs (40 catches). I can say that the focus this requires of me is much purer than that I get with fire twirling. With fire I'm always considering where I'm going to go next, which tricks I've done but want to practise more, which tricks I havent done, which way I've been facing, what this dude who is wandering towards me is going to do next, what the music is doing etc etc. As Bender said, I'm calm and clear when fire twirling - but not empty of thought.

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Loewan, I understand the sensation you're feeling but I also don't agree that its meditation... its a relaxation that can eradicate a large amount of sensation including self assessment and self conciousness, but self-awareness is still present.

Pyrolific, your juggling experience as described here seems intense. Your mind reduced to one pattern, perhaps a second, 4 clubs really does sound an interesting situation. ^_^


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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I think its just about repeating what is for me a very difficult but essentially minimal pattern. It requires a simple algo eg;

catch, correct, throw. over and over. just doing that simple algo takes all my concentration for the length of the run with 4 clubs. My fire twirling (or 3 ball juggling) algo is far more varied and complex because the physical side is now so easy because I've practised it so much.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Yeah... for me, I only claim to have reached a meditative state when I am no longer aware of my own actions. Its all muscle memory. Although, to properly achieve this, dissociative entheogens are required.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I think spinning VS juggling is that there is a higher propertion of spinning that can be 'off' but not affect the overall pattern.

A weave can very wobbly and even neck rolls and hyperloops don't have to be exactly the same each time.

Most juggling tends in the other direction, if the throw isn't consistent then the hand isn't there to catch it and you get a drop.

Of course, I'm not saying that there aren't aspects of both to both disciplines, just that spinning has a higher % of 'forgiving' moves, and juggling a lesser %.

Does that make sense?


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Thats a good point. The idea of styles with poi essentially hinges off this basic principle... Just keeping it in time and giving the movement a curve or to move your arms up and down.

While juggling styles still have to have a time based accuracy on the throw and the catch and as such has to relate the two actions to one another rather than just the relative positions of the arms and poi.

Not to say that either one is better or more beneficial, its just a different balance of focus and feeling.

EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1219995402)


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:In essence, havin a good spin is being more present, but in important ways is not the same as a deliberate meditation practice.

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Interesting.

I agree with the juggling vs. poi bit about forgiveness. I have noticed it when doing releases with poi recently.

I find that if I am upset or my mind is over-revving I can go poi and it will calm me down. Not that it lasts long, but for the hours/minutes I am poiing, I do not really have to think about anything but that. Which involves a fair amount: thinking a couple moves ahead, fixing stuff that I can feel going wrong, some awareness of which way I am facing etc.

And that is on my own, not in front of an audience....


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Yeah... even throws are fairly forgiving, you can catch directly into a stall if it comes at you at an odd angle, even. ^_^

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Assuming that you can catch stuff at all.... tongue2

My releases are dropping into my hand on most attempts now. Feels pretty cool. I would need to reweight my fire poi to do it with them though.

I can not juggle, but I will say that I can lose myself doing releases with poi quite easily.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Can't juggle.. my right hand can do all sorts of throws and catches, behind the back and all that jazz... left hand can do some stuff, sometimes... but it truly is an unwieldy beast.

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