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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:A little while back I got the idea to make a prop which would be similar to the 'S' curved staff but work more like poi. During MCP's stay with me in Philly, she got a little footage of them which can be seen at 1:56 here:




This, however, was filmed early in my learning to use them and doesn't really show off all the things they're capable of. Most notably, they have the ability to bounce if thrown at the ground a certain way. I learned a lot of cool bendy illusionary stuff with stalls and isolations and anti-spin stuff looks really nice. Also, the reverse spinning is very difficult but looks awesome when I do it with both at the same time. I can do some butterfly stuff and reels... Working on the weave but its tough to keep going in reverse.

Anyhow... I made them fairly simply. I just got a cheapo dollar store hula hoop and cut it in half. I wrapped most of it in UV reactive gaffers tape and Left about 6 inches for a handle. I had 2 small steel balls a bit bigger than the diameter of the tubing which I taped smoothly with electrical tape along with the handle. This gave them a nice balance point about 8 inches from the ball, more towards the handle. It is important here that the handle and ball are smooth because as you spin these, they must rotate in your hand and a messy handle can make things even more difficult than they need to be.

Here is a basic diagram:


Non-Https Image Link


Unfortunately I lost one of mine about a month ago and haven't gotten around to making a new set. Not sure where I'm going to find more steel balls... Im not sure where the ones I had came from... They had just been sitting around my room for years heh. People seemed to really like them though and I think they have a lot of potential as a new manipulation prop - indeed much more than I have unlocked thus far - and so, I give you, the Icon Curve. smile


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:I should add that a friend of mine, Elias from Oakland, made a set of fire curves for fire drums which were pretty awesome but entirely too heavy and unbalanced since he made them with steel.



I am also talking to a producer of sectional glow hoops to get a set of glow curves!


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Pogo69
SILVER Member since Apr 2006

Pogo69

there's no charge for awesomeness... or attractiveness
Location: limbo, Australia

Total posts: 3764
Posted:way cool, mike... I'd seen the S-curve staff threads, but hadn't had a good look until I saw you in meg's vid. awesome stuff...

I suck at poi, so I'll not be trying these, but you have inspired me to track down a pair of S-curve doubles...!! mmm... glow S-curve doubles...!!

bounce


--pogo (pat) [forever and always]

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Mike, Most cool smile

*goes on the lookout for a cheap orange Hula Hoop*


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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squid
BRONZE Member since Apr 2007

squid

sanguine
Location: sur, USA

Total posts: 382
Posted:This is a very interesting idea. Its a nice blend of swing clubs and curved staves. I am kind of excited to make a pair...but with some mods.

A question or two, if you don't mind? Do you find that the heavy weight of steel balls in the handle to be crucial? I was thinking of somewhat lighter hi-bounce rubber balls that I could put on both ends. It might change the balance point from being 8 inches out, but I could then switch which end I want to hold, more easily.

that kind of leads me to the next question: Did you leave the far end open or cover it with the gaffer's tape as well?


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:The far end was open but I don't feel like that had any impact on their use.

The weight in the handle was fairly crucial to the way I manipulated them... However, part of why I am putting this out there is for everyone to have a play in their own way so as to find other ways to manipulate them and possibly better ways to make them. Go for yours and see how it works. Just do me a favor and report back on your findings.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I saw these in that vid. Looks way cool.

Maybe in four months or so when I go hom I can make myself some. smile


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:In this Video, Nico uses hoops and parts fo hoops to make some really cool illusions.

Shame he didn't do as much as I hoped with his choice of track though.

Some inspiration for you here maybe Mike?




Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:lovely vid ed

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yes, Meg showed me that video after she saw my curves. I love it indeed, especially since Im really into hoop manipulation as well.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

squid
BRONZE Member since Apr 2007

squid

sanguine
Location: sur, USA

Total posts: 382
Posted: Written by :MikeIcon


The far end was open but I don't feel like that had any impact on their use.

The weight in the handle was fairly crucial to the way I manipulated them... However, part of why I am putting this out there is for everyone to have a play in their own way so as to find other ways to manipulate them and possibly better ways to make them. Go for yours and see how it works. Just do me a favor and report back on your findings.



So I made some and have been playing around a bit with them. I did alter the design to taste, of course. #1: I used a rubber ball instead of steel; #2: I put a ball on each end, making it more evenly balanced towards the center; #3: I used tennis grip on a small section in the middle; #4: black electrical tape for the handle, black athletic tape for the body, black tennis grip for the center.

Ok, so as to the why:
I started off true to the original design (minus steel ball). I found that the planes were tricky to control at first, so I had to trim a few inches off the end to suit my height. I haven't measure them, but they are close around 40 inches now.

Doing convex moves (with the belly of the curve leading) is kind of neat and graceful. Lots of long arm stuff obviously. But, concave moves (reverse) were still very difficult. I tried switching the ball end to the outside and the extra weight actually helped me there. So that's why I added a ball at each end.

But then, with balanced weight, I was feeling like convex moves were losing some of the flow. I wanted to add a weight to the belly of the curve so that I could get the curve to kind of pull itself along. Hense, the tennis grip in the middle. Its not a lot of weight, but I can feel a slight tug in the right direction as Im spinning them from one end.

As a bonus, I now feel I can switch positions from holding either end or the middle quite easily and alter how I manipulate them. They probably resemble curved staves now more than the original poi concept Mike was thinking of, but thanks to the ball ends, I can still easily use them as such.

There is something very fun about these that goes beyond what straight double staves do. Its that visual illusion that Dai gets with Buugeng and the different positions you can spin, arrange, and play with them. Im just starting out with these and havent quite got a grip on the planes totally. Reminds me of the comments I've heard said about how Buugeng are tricky to keep in plane. But I feel a lot of promise with this toy for giving me all kinds of time consuming fun and challenge.

And its so simple to make! Thanks for the inspiration, Mike. juggle ubbrollsmile


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:half S curves!
I have been practicing with folded buugengs.
this shape is useful for acrobatics, as they can be tucked outta the way.
they make my arse look fat tho.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Looks very intriguing, Mike - am looking forward to put my hands on them smile

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:we already sell poi like this. they're tail poi exept when you hold the tip of the tail you get coloured curves (pyropixie spiral poi sold by firetoys here) they are about 12 each

or if you hold opposite corners of the tails you get flag poi. we've been spinning with "S" shaped poi for about 2 years wink

not perfect as you have a D shape due to the black string but you can only really see the coloured C or S shapes make by the fabric caused by a sail effect. makes selling them really easy ubblol

I would admitt that not having the bit of string in the way would look a lot neater.



Thinking about the physics the curve would go in the opposit direction with the pyropixie the front end is concave but with these it would be convex.

D rather than C shaped

EDITED_BY: Mynci (1218115878)


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Mynci, the curves and the poi youre talking about are quite different. They are manipulated in much different ways and there are things you can do with the curves that you can't do with the poi and vice verce... Really, you can get just about any set of tailed poi and do what you describe (as long as the tails are a decent length)

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:curves are closer to clubs than poi.

Anywho... I'm still on the look out for a cheap orange hoop. Once I find one, some curves I shall have...

Although, you decorated the whole thing with coloured tape, didn't you Mike? It might be worth me just getting a load of that in orange and going that way...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Also, you can spin these curves both convex first and concave first. Some nice visual effects to be made here....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yes, I used colored tape. This way it doesnt matter what color the hoop is, you can always just change the tape to make it whatever color you want.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Delete

squid
BRONZE Member since Apr 2007

squid

sanguine
Location: sur, USA

Total posts: 382
Posted:So, Ive been playing with these for about a month now and I actually enjoy it so much Ive put away my regular double staves. I've wrapped and rewrapped them trying to figure out what suited me best and having a tennis grip in the middle and 2 electrical taped ends on both staves has been my favorite.

I still use them a lot like Mike does: poi/club-like. the spiral patterns and butterfly movements have a graceful quality about them.

Holding in the center is harder than regular staffwork because you can't relax your wrists quite so much or the sloppiness becomes immediately apparent. So, I've been slower in progression and in overall tempo. Sometimes I can speed it up; other times I just adopt a slower, more dramatic dancer-like idea.

the best thing? The curved nature allows me to do some interesting tricks with locking and throwing. Even things that are simple in regular staff, like propellors & wrist wraps, are much harder and more fun with a curved toy.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Niftyness.

It's too bad you lost one you said. I'd ask if you were headed to PhillyFest with them.


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MRC
SILVER Member since Jun 2008

MRC

Funky Blessings Daily
Location: , USA

Total posts: 215
Posted:I can't wait to see someone put on some gloves and cover one of these in a wick.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:As I said, my friend made a fire set... Worked well except they were extremely heavy due to the steel construction.

Thanks for the feedback, Squid. Perhaps get some video of your variation?


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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MRC
SILVER Member since Jun 2008

MRC

Funky Blessings Daily
Location: , USA

Total posts: 215
Posted:Perhaps try aluminum? Wouldn't it be lighter and absorb less heat?

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squid
BRONZE Member since Apr 2007

squid

sanguine
Location: sur, USA

Total posts: 382
Posted:Thank you for the inspiration, Mike. Videos. Videos for everything are on my neverending to-do list. Videos for poi, meteor, contact staff, double staff, now these.

one of these days....


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:You have a video cam, squid?? Fully do it! Start with one. I'll be a knob and suggest either these things or poi to begin with. I'd like to see what a man with 8 arms can do.

hug

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squid
BRONZE Member since Apr 2007

squid

sanguine
Location: sur, USA

Total posts: 382
Posted:at the risk of being crass, I have point out that not all my appendages are arms. wink

I do have a camera. A Panasonic HD-SR200, which is pretty good for the budgeteer in me. Only videos I have though are of my daughter. A 6 month old with mini poi and laughing hysterically at the giant hoop rolling around her is great though.

the real problem is that the camera wont download to my ancient iBook G4. So, until I can access a pc, I cant edit or upload any footage.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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TABjuggler
SILVER Member since Sep 2010

TABjuggler

newbie
Location: Orlando, FL, USA

Total posts: 26
Posted:Wow these sound really fun! I'm going to make a set to play around with! Thanks for the idea!

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