Forums > Social Discussion > Fire footbags banned in WA - a slippery slope?
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journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
Ok, just saw this on the tv but I can't find a news report to link to, just the press release and the gazzete:
The press release
and:
The gazette
Basically the WA Govt just banned fire footbags with no warning or consultation for the following reasons:
" - When used as intended, the product becomes a flaming ball and/or missile, with the clear potential to cause serious burns to the user either by directly burning the skin or by igniting clothing or by igniting nearby flammable materials.
- Fire Authorities have advised that in their opinion, any plaything linked to flammable liquid and fire has the potential to ignite combustibles or burn the person playing with the product.
- Fire Authorities have also advised that the potential for domestic and bush fires in built or natural environments is very real from the use, and in particular the careless use, of these products."
I've played with fire footbags in the past (not anymore thanks to early-onset arthritis in me hip) and while I was pretty crap at it I didn't set anything on fire or injure myself or others. Playing with matches can lead to injury and/or property damage too ya know.
WA is extremely flammable in summer and ALL forms of fire/heat should be used with care and caution (including barbecues, generators and cigarettes). You would have to be pretty daft to play with a flaming hack anywhere other than a large sealed area, wet grass or on a beach. What's more is the majority of human related bushfires in WA are set by arsonists but I don't see a ban on matches, lighters, cigarettes etc
Now if fire footbags can be banned for the stated reasons, what's to stop them banning of ALL fire toys? Take note of the second and third reasons - worrying eh? This has me particularly concerned as I don't think I will every qualify as a performer (the only technicality which allows you to still purchase a fire footbag).
And (gosh, this must be my biggest post ever) the tv news footage showed some very skilled fire footbagging - bigs ups to the performers. It'll probably just make people want to give it a go - which will mean making their own footbag and experimenting with different fuels. The old "ban it and it'll just go underground" chestnut.
While I'm ranting, with a very minor amount of re-wording of the stated reasons you could use it as an argument for banning all cars
Hope those links work...
EDITED_BY: Wirewood (1213715301)
Ok, just saw this on the tv but I can't find a news report to link to, just the press release and the gazzete:
The press release
and:
The gazette
Basically the WA Govt just banned fire footbags with no warning or consultation for the following reasons:
" - When used as intended, the product becomes a flaming ball and/or missile, with the clear potential to cause serious burns to the user either by directly burning the skin or by igniting clothing or by igniting nearby flammable materials.
- Fire Authorities have advised that in their opinion, any plaything linked to flammable liquid and fire has the potential to ignite combustibles or burn the person playing with the product.
- Fire Authorities have also advised that the potential for domestic and bush fires in built or natural environments is very real from the use, and in particular the careless use, of these products."
I've played with fire footbags in the past (not anymore thanks to early-onset arthritis in me hip) and while I was pretty crap at it I didn't set anything on fire or injure myself or others. Playing with matches can lead to injury and/or property damage too ya know.
WA is extremely flammable in summer and ALL forms of fire/heat should be used with care and caution (including barbecues, generators and cigarettes). You would have to be pretty daft to play with a flaming hack anywhere other than a large sealed area, wet grass or on a beach. What's more is the majority of human related bushfires in WA are set by arsonists but I don't see a ban on matches, lighters, cigarettes etc
Now if fire footbags can be banned for the stated reasons, what's to stop them banning of ALL fire toys? Take note of the second and third reasons - worrying eh? This has me particularly concerned as I don't think I will every qualify as a performer (the only technicality which allows you to still purchase a fire footbag).
And (gosh, this must be my biggest post ever) the tv news footage showed some very skilled fire footbagging - bigs ups to the performers. It'll probably just make people want to give it a go - which will mean making their own footbag and experimenting with different fuels. The old "ban it and it'll just go underground" chestnut.
While I'm ranting, with a very minor amount of re-wording of the stated reasons you could use it as an argument for banning all cars
Hope those links work...
EDITED_BY: Wirewood (1213715301)
"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
SILVER Member
Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
227 posts
Location: Macungie, PA, USA
Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
227 posts
Location: Macungie, PA, USA
Posted:
Have there been any incidents at all that you know involving footbags?? Or are they just assuming that there may be one in the future? Any one of the toys we play with on HOP can be hazardous if misused... A spinning poi head somehow disconnected from the chain could go a lot farther than a bag somebody only intends to go five or ten feet...
Hopefully you guys have enough people registering complaints with the "Fire Authorities" that maybe they'll relax the ban somewhat? I can understand the danger of brush fires. When I was living in Florida (inland, not near a beach) I was very hesitant to play with fire a lot of the time because it wouldn't take much to set everything alight. But that kind of thinking comes from common sense and good fire training. If the Fire Authorities are really concerned they'll start holding meetings or presentations for the public to learn from, or take other measures to make sure the public is handling fire safely, rather than not at all.
As you said, the public is trusted with cars, and they account for far more deaths than footbags!
Have there been any incidents at all that you know involving footbags?? Or are they just assuming that there may be one in the future? Any one of the toys we play with on HOP can be hazardous if misused... A spinning poi head somehow disconnected from the chain could go a lot farther than a bag somebody only intends to go five or ten feet...
Hopefully you guys have enough people registering complaints with the "Fire Authorities" that maybe they'll relax the ban somewhat? I can understand the danger of brush fires. When I was living in Florida (inland, not near a beach) I was very hesitant to play with fire a lot of the time because it wouldn't take much to set everything alight. But that kind of thinking comes from common sense and good fire training. If the Fire Authorities are really concerned they'll start holding meetings or presentations for the public to learn from, or take other measures to make sure the public is handling fire safely, rather than not at all.
As you said, the public is trusted with cars, and they account for far more deaths than footbags!
Bouncing Baby Pipe!
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coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
SORRY but did i quote you right?
it says the ban is only for eighteen months in the document, so maybe its just a temporary measure.
Written by :wirewood
Basically the WA Govt just banned cricket balls with no warning or consultation for the following reasons:
" - When used as intended, the product becomes a heavy ball and/or missile, with the clear potential to cause serious injury to the user either by directly hitting the skin or by hitting clothing or by breaking nearby windows/cars.
- Sporting Authorities have advised that in their opinion, any plaything linked to heavy missiles and exercise has the potential to cause damage or injury to the person playing with the product.
- sporting authorities have also advised that the potential for domestic and rural property destruction in built or natural environments is very real from the use, and in particular the careless use, of these products."
I've played cricket in the past (not anymore thanks to early-onset arthritis in me hip) and while I was pretty crap at it I didn't set damage anything or injure myself or others. Playing with matches can lead to injury and/or property damage too ya know.
Now if cricket balls can be banned for the stated reasons, what's to stop the banning of ALL ball sports? Take note of the second and third reasons - worrying eh? This has me particularly concerned as I don't think I will every qualify as a professional (the only technicality which allows you to still purchase a cricket ball).
And (gosh, this must be my biggest post ever) the tv news footage showed some very skilled cricketers - bigs ups to the professionals. It'll probably just make people want to give it a go - which will mean making their own cricketballs and experimenting with techniques. The old "ban it and it'll just go underground" chestnut.
SORRY but did i quote you right?
it says the ban is only for eighteen months in the document, so maybe its just a temporary measure.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
GOLD Member
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
Yep, Mr Majestik, that just makes the reason behind the ban seem even sillier. Beats me why it's only for 18 months, the person on TV (sorry, missed their exact title) seemed pretty rabid about it all, maybe there is some legal loophole requiring an 18 month period before a ban becomes permanent (I'm just guessing, any WA lawyers feel free to correct me here).
No, I haven't heard of any incidents that might have lead to such a ban.
And no, those links don't seem to work for me either
...and now they do - yay for the FAQ/Help
EDITED_BY: Wirewood (1213715503)
Yep, Mr Majestik, that just makes the reason behind the ban seem even sillier. Beats me why it's only for 18 months, the person on TV (sorry, missed their exact title) seemed pretty rabid about it all, maybe there is some legal loophole requiring an 18 month period before a ban becomes permanent (I'm just guessing, any WA lawyers feel free to correct me here).
No, I haven't heard of any incidents that might have lead to such a ban.
And no, those links don't seem to work for me either
...and now they do - yay for the FAQ/Help
EDITED_BY: Wirewood (1213715503)
"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
I can add something to this...
The fine gentleman who makes these for us has been on the receiving end of a complaint and investigation. It seems a 16 year old boy purchased one, hurt himself with it and his mother complained. Investigation occured and WA ban is the result so far. (Despite the boy being underage etc etc)
The dust hasn't settled yet as the ban is now being considered Australia wide by the Canberra officials.
And they informed the NZ Government and we were contacted by them yesterday. They said there was no current intention to do the same here.
But there is an "out" - from what we were told, they can still be sold to "professional fire-performers".
However, Aaron seems sufficiently "burned" by the whole saga that he is unlikely to produce any more of these and when our stock runs out they will be unavailable.
EDITED_BY: georgemc (1213762508)
I can add something to this...
The fine gentleman who makes these for us has been on the receiving end of a complaint and investigation. It seems a 16 year old boy purchased one, hurt himself with it and his mother complained. Investigation occured and WA ban is the result so far. (Despite the boy being underage etc etc)
The dust hasn't settled yet as the ban is now being considered Australia wide by the Canberra officials.
And they informed the NZ Government and we were contacted by them yesterday. They said there was no current intention to do the same here.
But there is an "out" - from what we were told, they can still be sold to "professional fire-performers".
However, Aaron seems sufficiently "burned" by the whole saga that he is unlikely to produce any more of these and when our stock runs out they will be unavailable.
EDITED_BY: georgemc (1213762508)
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it. 
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
...and its entirely impossible that people will buy Kevlar thread and rope and stitch their own
someone needs to tell the government you cant legislate against stupidity.
...and its entirely impossible that people will buy Kevlar thread and rope and stitch their own
someone needs to tell the government you cant legislate against stupidity.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
you know the more i think about this the sillier it is.
surely by the age of 16 you know that if you play with fire you risk getting burnt? i'd like to know what the 16 year old boy thinks about the statewide ban as a result of his actions.
IMO i suspect its a case of an over protective mother with a vendetta against everyone else because she doesn't want to admit that it was her own son that made the choice, got hurt, and hopefully learnt not to do it again.
i'd really like to know how extensively he got hurt.
you know the more i think about this the sillier it is.
surely by the age of 16 you know that if you play with fire you risk getting burnt? i'd like to know what the 16 year old boy thinks about the statewide ban as a result of his actions.
IMO i suspect its a case of an over protective mother with a vendetta against everyone else because she doesn't want to admit that it was her own son that made the choice, got hurt, and hopefully learnt not to do it again.
i'd really like to know how extensively he got hurt.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
yeah - not sure. The gazette link above says he burned his hands but doesn't say how much...
yeah - not sure. The gazette link above says he burned his hands but doesn't say how much...
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
GOLD Member
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
Ok, now I'm getting a little confused. I found this:
News article
which suggests that the ban is in South Australia (note that this is from the "Worst" Australian which IMHO has terrible reporting standards for a newspaper, but that could lead to an
rant). I just re-checked the links I posted and noted that they are from the Federal Govt with no mention of a particular state - so does that mean the ban is for all Australia?
Sorry if I missed something in the gazette/press release and that I don't have time to follow this up further - I'm up to my eyeballs in Kruskal-Wallis pairwise comparisons at the moment
(vows to learn R (same as S-Plus but free)).
Ok, now I'm getting a little confused. I found this:
News article
which suggests that the ban is in South Australia (note that this is from the "Worst" Australian which IMHO has terrible reporting standards for a newspaper, but that could lead to an
rant). I just re-checked the links I posted and noted that they are from the Federal Govt with no mention of a particular state - so does that mean the ban is for all Australia?Sorry if I missed something in the gazette/press release and that I don't have time to follow this up further - I'm up to my eyeballs in Kruskal-Wallis pairwise comparisons at the moment
(vows to learn R (same as S-Plus but free)). "What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
From our understanding - ban is currently in effect for WA only. Nationwide ban is being considered.
From our understanding - ban is currently in effect for WA only. Nationwide ban is being considered.
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
GOLD Member
Should I be spinning around my poi, or should my poi be spinning around me???
42 posts
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Should I be spinning around my poi, or should my poi be spinning around me???
42 posts
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posted:
Doesn't that say it all?
Written by :Mr Majestik
someone needs to tell the government you cant legislate against stupidity.
Doesn't that say it all?
Spinning makes the world go round
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
So since people are killed by cars - let's ban them!
Oh, and kitchen knives, you can hurt people with them too.
And why haven't they banned wading pools yet, given the toddler drownings?
So since people are killed by cars - let's ban them!
Oh, and kitchen knives, you can hurt people with them too.
And why haven't they banned wading pools yet, given the toddler drownings?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
enthusiast
315 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
enthusiast
315 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Actually, in Australia, in a sense there are laws against stupidity, with the judges commonly implementing a "reasonable person" test, whereby the judge applies the question of "what would a reasonable person do in their situation?" to aid them in a judgment. If the accused acted beyond the realms of what a reasonable person would do, they are far more likely to be found guilty, regardless of whether intent was out of malice or stupidity (although these do play a part in judgments where intent, or "Mens Rea", are important, like murder). So, although the government cannot legislate against stupidity, common law has allowed for stupidity to be far less tolerable.
Written by :Mr Majestik
someone needs to tell the government you cant legislate against stupidity.
Actually, in Australia, in a sense there are laws against stupidity, with the judges commonly implementing a "reasonable person" test, whereby the judge applies the question of "what would a reasonable person do in their situation?" to aid them in a judgment. If the accused acted beyond the realms of what a reasonable person would do, they are far more likely to be found guilty, regardless of whether intent was out of malice or stupidity (although these do play a part in judgments where intent, or "Mens Rea", are important, like murder). So, although the government cannot legislate against stupidity, common law has allowed for stupidity to be far less tolerable.
GOLD Member
is a medium/large scary man
420 posts
Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
is a medium/large scary man
420 posts
Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
Posted:
"So order your soon to be banned items now"
Written by :georgemc
From our understanding - ban is currently in effect for WA only. Nationwide ban is being considered.
"So order your soon to be banned items now"
Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.
SAPPHIRE Member
Member
3 posts
Location: Broome, Australia
Member
3 posts
Location: Broome, Australia
Posted:
To clarify:
“The ban makes provision for supply to bona fide entertainers when they have appropriate supporting evidence.” So if you have public liability insurance and perform for a taxable income you can purchase the footbags in Australia.
The ban is Australia wide. Initially it was banned for sale from WA through the department of cunsumer protection. However the ACCC have placed a blanket ban for all of Oz.
I had to submit and argue for it to be a restricted ban, leaving opportunity open to performers.
FESA (fire and emergency services) were the main players pushing the ban for enviromental reasons, which I can partially understand. Therefore it will not impact on all of our other favourite fire activities.
To clarify:
“The ban makes provision for supply to bona fide entertainers when they have appropriate supporting evidence.” So if you have public liability insurance and perform for a taxable income you can purchase the footbags in Australia.
The ban is Australia wide. Initially it was banned for sale from WA through the department of cunsumer protection. However the ACCC have placed a blanket ban for all of Oz.
I had to submit and argue for it to be a restricted ban, leaving opportunity open to performers.
FESA (fire and emergency services) were the main players pushing the ban for enviromental reasons, which I can partially understand. Therefore it will not impact on all of our other favourite fire activities.
GOLD Member
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
It would appear to be spreading:
NSW ban
Amazing how quickly this ban came into place when steps to reduce other harmful practices (e.g. cigarettes, alcohol abuse etc) have taken years (decades even) and many of those are only 1/2 measures.
[sits and waits for them to ban cricket balls...]
[edit]
Oops, sorry Aaron, I was busy typing while you posted. Going by the news articles I've stumbled upon it would seem that the "nation wide" ban hasn't been well publicised
EDITED_BY: Wirewood (1213854743)
It would appear to be spreading:
NSW ban
Amazing how quickly this ban came into place when steps to reduce other harmful practices (e.g. cigarettes, alcohol abuse etc) have taken years (decades even) and many of those are only 1/2 measures.
[sits and waits for them to ban cricket balls...]
[edit]
Oops, sorry Aaron, I was busy typing while you posted. Going by the news articles I've stumbled upon it would seem that the "nation wide" ban hasn't been well publicised
EDITED_BY: Wirewood (1213854743)
"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
SILVER Member
member
52 posts
Location: nsw, gunnedah, Australia
member
52 posts
Location: nsw, gunnedah, Australia
Posted:
November 2009 news bulletin will read: "the Australian government today anounced a national ban on the following items: kitchen knives, matches, cars, water, dogs, horses, heaters, push bikes, paving stones, glass bottles, fire arms, chickens, shovels, spades, ropes, power cords, steel cap boots, high rise buildings, mice, buses, paper, trees, toe nail clippers, forks and people."
but I'm sure that wont at all be a little excessive...
has anyone won the lottery recently? can we sue the government? or mayby the $@&*$#% @$#%& that started it...
i knew there was a reson i didn't vote for this government...
EDITED_BY: albotross (1213858134)
November 2009 news bulletin will read: "the Australian government today anounced a national ban on the following items: kitchen knives, matches, cars, water, dogs, horses, heaters, push bikes, paving stones, glass bottles, fire arms, chickens, shovels, spades, ropes, power cords, steel cap boots, high rise buildings, mice, buses, paper, trees, toe nail clippers, forks and people."but I'm sure that wont at all be a little excessive...
has anyone won the lottery recently? can we sue the government? or mayby the $@&*$#% @$#%& that started it...
i knew there was a reson i didn't vote for this government...
EDITED_BY: albotross (1213858134)
The nite is nearly over, day is almost here. Romans 13:12
stranger
9 posts
9 posts
Posted:
Just to be clear, Wirewood stated that WA has banned these but then links to comonwealh notices and press releases.
Commonwealth generally has no jurisdiction over retailing in the states so said ban will apply only tothe territories - Christmas Island, ACT, NT, Antartica Base, airports, telephone booths, Post Offices and so forth. They do however have power over international trade and international borders so can ban importing.
States rarely hand over state powers, they more commonly take a lead from the Commonwealth (and each other for that matter) and declare similar regulations if they see fit. eg NSW as someone has already pointed out.
I have looked at the WA DOCEP site and find nothing, nor any press releases. I'd say WA hasn't banned them (yet).
People are getting all het up about this as thoughsome essential right has been gottenrid of. However all the feds seem to have done so far is make the product a little fiddly to get. While that may not suit those who supply, it does mean that casual idiots are less likely. They are not banning actrual use of them. And that is all that conumer watchdogs usually do - just deal with the treading, not the using.
Be aware that we are all casual idiots from time to time - it doesn't mean it's right that you suffer horrific injuries.
Just to be clear, Wirewood stated that WA has banned these but then links to comonwealh notices and press releases.
Commonwealth generally has no jurisdiction over retailing in the states so said ban will apply only tothe territories - Christmas Island, ACT, NT, Antartica Base, airports, telephone booths, Post Offices and so forth. They do however have power over international trade and international borders so can ban importing.
States rarely hand over state powers, they more commonly take a lead from the Commonwealth (and each other for that matter) and declare similar regulations if they see fit. eg NSW as someone has already pointed out.
I have looked at the WA DOCEP site and find nothing, nor any press releases. I'd say WA hasn't banned them (yet).
People are getting all het up about this as thoughsome essential right has been gottenrid of. However all the feds seem to have done so far is make the product a little fiddly to get. While that may not suit those who supply, it does mean that casual idiots are less likely. They are not banning actrual use of them. And that is all that conumer watchdogs usually do - just deal with the treading, not the using.
Be aware that we are all casual idiots from time to time - it doesn't mean it's right that you suffer horrific injuries.
GOLD Member
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
And another state:
Victoria News Release
Note that the headline on that press release, as per the Commonwealth one, doesn't seem to reflect the contents ("use" vs "sale")
So, that makes it Vic, SA, NSW, NT & ACT - seems odd that WA hasn't banned the sale of them yet considering it's the only state where an injury has been reported.
As I asked in the title of this thread - slippery slope? Could one complaint lead to the banning of the sale of other fire gear? I've had my moments with staff (it's alright, the beard grew back )and I've seen others do some silly things with poi but I've seen people do a lot worse with cars!
And another state:
Victoria News Release
Note that the headline on that press release, as per the Commonwealth one, doesn't seem to reflect the contents ("use" vs "sale")
So, that makes it Vic, SA, NSW, NT & ACT - seems odd that WA hasn't banned the sale of them yet considering it's the only state where an injury has been reported.
As I asked in the title of this thread - slippery slope? Could one complaint lead to the banning of the sale of other fire gear? I've had my moments with staff (it's alright, the beard grew back
)and I've seen others do some silly things with poi but I've seen people do a lot worse with cars! "What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
newbie
7 posts
Location: NSW, Australia
7 posts
Location: NSW, Australia
Posted:
Yep that is a ban that is pretty ridiculous I would think... It would seem more sensible to make it so that they have to be sold to people over a certain age and with some kind of sufficient safety warning... if they are going to do anything at all.... That would cover all the duty of care litigation and all that stuff. It's not like fire hackies are exactly some kind of major public health hazard or were ever likely to become one...
I love the cricket ball analogy!
Yep that is a ban that is pretty ridiculous I would think... It would seem more sensible to make it so that they have to be sold to people over a certain age and with some kind of sufficient safety warning... if they are going to do anything at all.... That would cover all the duty of care litigation and all that stuff. It's not like fire hackies are exactly some kind of major public health hazard or were ever likely to become one...
I love the cricket ball analogy!
BRONZE Member
nut.
756 posts
Location: Bouncing off the walls., England (UK)
nut.
756 posts
Location: Bouncing off the walls., England (UK)
Posted:
Spoilsports
Hardly going to set *that* on fire..
Written by :Coln_OldnCranky
Commonwealth generally has no jurisdiction over retailing in the states so said ban will apply only tothe territories - ... Antartica Base
Spoilsports
Hardly going to set *that* on fire..
THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!
If that's okay with you?
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
look, even if they do do a perma ban on these there is a cheap solution......
Take a jar of rubber cement, coat the outside of it with rubber cement set on fire and kick around.....it's hard to get yer adreniline going like a deathball coming at your face will!
Note: I take no responsibility for stupidity.
look, even if they do do a perma ban on these there is a cheap solution......
Take a jar of rubber cement, coat the outside of it with rubber cement set on fire and kick around.....it's hard to get yer adreniline going like a deathball coming at your face will!
Note: I take no responsibility for stupidity.
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
OK so this may be a minority view, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to not allow public random use of fiery foot-balls. IT's good there is a reasonable exemption for
professional use and doesn't apply to staff or poi, as it mentions 'designed to be kicked or thrown'. The very rare and occasional time that a poi might go ballistic is much more likely to be accompanied by a fire-safety-concious person running after it with a wet towel etc.
Interesting that Firebugs from Broome WAS consulted. Good on your for participating sensibly with public safety.
OK so this may be a minority view, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to not allow public random use of fiery foot-balls. IT's good there is a reasonable exemption for
professional use and doesn't apply to staff or poi, as it mentions 'designed to be kicked or thrown'. The very rare and occasional time that a poi might go ballistic is much more likely to be accompanied by a fire-safety-concious person running after it with a wet towel etc.
Interesting that Firebugs from Broome WAS consulted. Good on your for participating sensibly with public safety.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
Hmmm i don;t know if this has been posted yet but here is a link to an artical about this
https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/flam...3770804601.html
It is interesting, the aretical says that they were being sold in retail and department stores?? Is that true? It dosen't sound right to me.
Hmmm i don;t know if this has been posted yet but here is a link to an artical about this
https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/flam...3770804601.html
It is interesting, the aretical says that they were being sold in retail and department stores?? Is that true? It dosen't sound right to me.
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Really great and really scary point!
I hadn't thought of it that way.
It sucks. Just proves that whole all it takes is one person to wreck it for everyone.
But if people really want to do it, they'll figure out a way. How would this possibly be policed? In a year, or less, won't it just kind of get buried by the latest and greatest target?
Written by :Wirewood
Amazing how quickly this ban came into place when steps to reduce other harmful practices (e.g. cigarettes, alcohol abuse etc) have taken years (decades even) and many of those are only 1/2 measures.
Really great and really scary point!
I hadn't thought of it that way.
It sucks. Just proves that whole all it takes is one person to wreck it for everyone.
But if people really want to do it, they'll figure out a way. How would this possibly be policed? In a year, or less, won't it just kind of get buried by the latest and greatest target?
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
So is it possession? Manufacture? or sale that is prohibited?
So is it possession? Manufacture? or sale that is prohibited?
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored 
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Lurch..they're "illegal to make available to the general public"
When it comes right down to it. it really is a stupid toy. Sure, it maybe amazing in the hands ( ha ha...feet ) of a skilled freestyler, but my guess is these things are being bought by people who are not so skilled, and not too aware of just how these things can go wrong.
Can you envision kicking one of these around in your standard hack circle ? I can...and I'd rather not.
Anybody remember Lawn Darts ?
I had a set of these when I was a kid, and needless to say, I found "more interesting" uses for them when I became a teenager.
Check out this poor sod
Lurch..they're "illegal to make available to the general public"
When it comes right down to it. it really is a stupid toy. Sure, it maybe amazing in the hands ( ha ha...feet ) of a skilled freestyler, but my guess is these things are being bought by people who are not so skilled, and not too aware of just how these things can go wrong.
Can you envision kicking one of these around in your standard hack circle ? I can...and I'd rather not.
Anybody remember Lawn Darts ?
I had a set of these when I was a kid, and needless to say, I found "more interesting" uses for them when I became a teenager.
Check out this poor sod
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
Gabe, Firebugs from Broome wasn't so much consulted as ... ummm, something else - he is the origin of the footbags in question and was on the receiving end of the investigation, so I think you can imagine the kind of pressure he was under.
for Firebugs!
Written by :newgabe
Interesting that Firebugs from Broome WAS consulted. Good on your for participating sensibly with public safety.
Gabe, Firebugs from Broome wasn't so much consulted as ... ummm, something else - he is the origin of the footbags in question and was on the receiving end of the investigation, so I think you can imagine the kind of pressure he was under.
for Firebugs! Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
SILVER Member
member
52 posts
Location: nsw, gunnedah, Australia
member
52 posts
Location: nsw, gunnedah, Australia
Posted:
smoking wont be banned entirely, because the government makes to much money off it. cars wont be effacted because the government makes to much off the petrol... and now, the only way to get this ball, the government has to make money off us.
my real concern though, is how long will it be before they decide to ban fire JUGGLING balls. from there, we go to clubs, then staff, then poi. i think wirewood hit on a very important point.
did you know that you dont need a car licence to buy a car? it is just ASSUMED that the customer is responsible...
Written by :firebugs
To clarify:
“The ban makes provision for supply to bona fide entertainers when they have appropriate supporting evidence.” So if you have public liability insurance and perform for a taxable income you can purchase the footbags in Australia.
smoking wont be banned entirely, because the government makes to much money off it. cars wont be effacted because the government makes to much off the petrol... and now, the only way to get this ball, the government has to make money off us.
my real concern though, is how long will it be before they decide to ban fire JUGGLING balls. from there, we go to clubs, then staff, then poi. i think wirewood hit on a very important point.
did you know that you dont need a car licence to buy a car? it is just ASSUMED that the customer is responsible...
The nite is nearly over, day is almost here. Romans 13:12
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
the ban is pretty simple really.
Q1. did someone get hurt?
A: yes
Q2. is there a large intrest group that will oppose the ban?
A: no
and so it occurs. all the other dangers to society such as cars, alcohol, cigarrettes have huge lobby groups that would fight a ban tooth and nail.
i suppose this situation could be compared to the restriction of sale of fire crackers and fireworks. if the people who are more likely to act irrisponsibly with them cant easily purcahse them they're more likely to not get one, while professionals will consider it a worthwhile endevour to purchase one or make their own. ....of course you cant legislate against orange guns so you irrisponsible members of society will still be able to have their fun
and that department store story in the SMH? nonsesnse i suspect. they probably think footbags and fire footbags are the same things.
the ban is pretty simple really.
Q1. did someone get hurt?
A: yes
Q2. is there a large intrest group that will oppose the ban?
A: no
and so it occurs. all the other dangers to society such as cars, alcohol, cigarrettes have huge lobby groups that would fight a ban tooth and nail.
i suppose this situation could be compared to the restriction of sale of fire crackers and fireworks. if the people who are more likely to act irrisponsibly with them cant easily purcahse them they're more likely to not get one, while professionals will consider it a worthwhile endevour to purchase one or make their own. ....of course you cant legislate against orange guns so you irrisponsible members of society will still be able to have their fun
and that department store story in the SMH? nonsesnse i suspect. they probably think footbags and fire footbags are the same things.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
GOLD Member
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
Just to add some info re the extent of the ban:
WA
and
ACT
The ACT ban seems to contradict this post:
Unless the ban in ACT also covers use as well as sales.
Must agree though, fire footbag in a telephone booth doesn't sound like such a good idea
Just to add some info re the extent of the ban:
WA
and
ACT
The ACT ban seems to contradict this post:
Written by :Coln_OldnCranky
Commonwealth generally has no jurisdiction over retailing in the states so said ban will apply only tothe territories - Christmas Island, ACT, NT, Antartica Base, airports, telephone booths, Post Offices and so forth.
Unless the ban in ACT also covers use as well as sales.
Must agree though, fire footbag in a telephone booth doesn't sound like such a good idea
"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
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