Forums > Social Discussion > Lisbon Treaty - what do European HoPpers think?
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
lapsed spinner
412 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
lapsed spinner
412 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
On the 12th of June, Ireland will have a referendum to decide whether or not it will adopt the EU's Lisbon Treaty. Ireland is the only country in Europe where the public will vote on the issue (the referendum is required by our constitution). If all EU countries don't adopt the treaty, it will not be ratified, and therefore scrapped, or at the very least re-drafted drastically.
This means that the Irish public are deciding for Europe whether or not this Treaty will come into effect.
Here is some more information on the treaty:
Irish Referendum Committee - this is the Irish government's "unbiased" informational resource, including the wording of the treaty.
The Economist Article - "what the treaty contains" - a synopsis in plain English.
And some information on the campaigns in Ireland:
The Yes campaign - as put forward by Fianna Fáil, the principal party in government here.
The No Campaign - as put forward by Libertas, one of the main "no" vote lobby groups.
I'll let you know what I'm thinking in a while, but first I'm curious to hear the views of others. The major political parties and trade unions here are all supporting the treaty, but in the most recent polls, the 'No' vote appears to be ahead, but it is a close call.
So, HoPpers from the EU, and HoPpers affected by the EU - what do you think? What do you hope Ireland decides?
On the 12th of June, Ireland will have a referendum to decide whether or not it will adopt the EU's Lisbon Treaty. Ireland is the only country in Europe where the public will vote on the issue (the referendum is required by our constitution). If all EU countries don't adopt the treaty, it will not be ratified, and therefore scrapped, or at the very least re-drafted drastically.
This means that the Irish public are deciding for Europe whether or not this Treaty will come into effect.
Here is some more information on the treaty:
Irish Referendum Committee - this is the Irish government's "unbiased" informational resource, including the wording of the treaty.
The Economist Article - "what the treaty contains" - a synopsis in plain English.
And some information on the campaigns in Ireland:
The Yes campaign - as put forward by Fianna Fáil, the principal party in government here.
The No Campaign - as put forward by Libertas, one of the main "no" vote lobby groups.
I'll let you know what I'm thinking in a while, but first I'm curious to hear the views of others. The major political parties and trade unions here are all supporting the treaty, but in the most recent polls, the 'No' vote appears to be ahead, but it is a close call.
So, HoPpers from the EU, and HoPpers affected by the EU - what do you think? What do you hope Ireland decides?
Helen_of_Poi
EJC Ireland 2006 Organisational Team
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Hello there - this is a highly complex political issue.
I reckon - like myself - most have not really gotten into the issue (IF they are interested in politics at all).
Will make some more time soon, as to read more about it and then try to phrase an answer that one can read (and digest) more easy. Hang in there
Hello there - this is a highly complex political issue.
I reckon - like myself - most have not really gotten into the issue (IF they are interested in politics at all).
Will make some more time soon, as to read more about it and then try to phrase an answer that one can read (and digest) more easy. Hang in there
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
The confusion over this document has become almost part of the debate.
And that makes me a bit suspicious...
It seems to me, that the EU is looking to put forward a 'President' of all Europe (which is a step in the wrong direction, I think)
It also seems to allow the possibility for 'bullying' by bigger countries (if a country with a bigger population wants something, they will carry the vote over smaller countries).
While sweetened with the 'Rights' aspect of the bill (which, as the Economist points out, will hold little sway in the individual countries), I can't help feeling suspicious about any bill that seems to move towards a 'one-world government'...
I've quoted it before, but if you haven't watched www.zeitgeistmovie.com ... please do.
The confusion over this document has become almost part of the debate.
And that makes me a bit suspicious...
It seems to me, that the EU is looking to put forward a 'President' of all Europe (which is a step in the wrong direction, I think)
It also seems to allow the possibility for 'bullying' by bigger countries (if a country with a bigger population wants something, they will carry the vote over smaller countries).
While sweetened with the 'Rights' aspect of the bill (which, as the Economist points out, will hold little sway in the individual countries), I can't help feeling suspicious about any bill that seems to move towards a 'one-world government'...
I've quoted it before, but if you haven't watched www.zeitgeistmovie.com ... please do.
Getting to the other side 
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Why you think a EU President is a step in the wrong direction, Clare? There (IMO) is nothing wrong with a 'one-world-government' as long as it truly represents all the people living on this planet....
As to the bullying you're referring to: I understand what you mean, but isn't that what a democracy is all about? "The will of the majority"? Would you feel that - for example Irelads - would get marginalized in future EU policies?
I'm afraid they will not give us the rights without the duties... But it seems as if Ireland is voting today against it.
Yet I believe that IF there is so much confusion about the treaty in the first place that the governments didn't do quite enough as to deliver the message to the people.
I for my part am happy that at least Irelads are having this referendum - in other countries we don't even get asked... it's all part of the package we elect our governments for ---- not really "democracy"...
So Irelads: you made the right choice
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1213360664)
Why you think a EU President is a step in the wrong direction, Clare? There (IMO) is nothing wrong with a 'one-world-government' as long as it truly represents all the people living on this planet....
As to the bullying you're referring to: I understand what you mean, but isn't that what a democracy is all about? "The will of the majority"? Would you feel that - for example Irelads - would get marginalized in future EU policies?
I'm afraid they will not give us the rights without the duties... But it seems as if Ireland is voting today against it.
Yet I believe that IF there is so much confusion about the treaty in the first place that the governments didn't do quite enough as to deliver the message to the people.
I for my part am happy that at least Irelads are having this referendum - in other countries we don't even get asked... it's all part of the package we elect our governments for ---- not really "democracy"...
So Irelads: you made the right choice
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1213360664)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
ancient oachkatzlschwoaf
248 posts
Location: germany
248 posts
Location: germany
Posted:
this discussion is probably quite interesting if you're into what the contract actually is about.
I for my part have to admit that I hardly know anything about it. Politicians in GER decided to accept it so people were hardly confronted with this contract. I used to read articles about politics every day but after a couple of years I got tired of it. To be honest I don't see a point in doing it right now .. may be a horrible attitude but I think I speak for the majority of GER and most of the other European countries if I say so
this discussion is probably quite interesting if you're into what the contract actually is about.
I for my part have to admit that I hardly know anything about it. Politicians in GER decided to accept it so people were hardly confronted with this contract. I used to read articles about politics every day but after a couple of years I got tired of it. To be honest I don't see a point in doing it right now .. may be a horrible attitude but I think I speak for the majority of GER and most of the other European countries if I say so
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
The major problem being is that as long as the people don't get asked about their opinion anyway they tend to turn back to their busy lives.
It's not as if there's time galore for the average EU working citizen...
The treaty got rejected - I for my part reckon IRE did the right thing...
The major problem being is that as long as the people don't get asked about their opinion anyway they tend to turn back to their busy lives.
It's not as if there's time galore for the average EU working citizen...
The treaty got rejected - I for my part reckon IRE did the right thing...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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