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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So in the last week, I have seen two children in horrible bike accidents. Neither was wearing a helmet.

One is 15. He's going to need some occupational therapy and he's going to be confused for a while (it's been about a week now). But he'll probably be more or less back to his baseline. He was an honors student.

The other honors student is a 10yo boy who I was kind of hoping would die. His brain looks like someone scrambled it with a fork. The swelling is so bad that they've had to remove a piece of his skull. He has a shear injury to his brainstem and can't even control his body's temperature correctly. He's going to be severely mentally and neurologically disabled if they ever get him out of this. The rest of his body is totally fine save a dislocated ankle. And yeah... horrible. From his school picture he was a really adorable kid. And he was an honors student. frown

Folks, please wear your helmets for biking and skating and climbing. I know they're uncomfortable, but severe brain damage is far worse. And parents, the rule with your kids should be: "If I ever catch you riding or skating without a helmet, you will do neither for one year."


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Agreed entirely.

Many of our parents have discussed this and if we see each others kids without helmets we call each other.
The kids faces drop when they see me as they know I will call their folks.
The boy across the road fractured his skull in a skateboard incidenta few months back. But he is still allowed on bike and blades without protection. Crazy.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Hmm, sorry - maybe I get a spanking now but in 36yrs of cycling I never wore one - and most likely I never will. My personal choice and I stand for it, keep your criticism. In all these years I had a few accidents and been lucky enough that only "one" has been somewhat dangerous (to my head). I now completed 8.000 k's on my Enfield in India 2008... without wearing a helmet. A helmet limits my field of vision and senses to the extent of discomfort. I always drive with the knowledge: nobody sees me - nobody cares, even if they would see me. As for the rest I need to rely on my Karma, call me suicidal/ delusional, yet to me it feels safer without a helmet. But that's only valid for me.

As for all the others: please listen to Mike and put a helmet, especially on the little ones.

Carefully choose the right helmet, as most cheap helmets are not worth the money you invest in them - they don't work!

If you - or anyone you know wears a helmet: make them aware that an intact brain alone isn't that much fun, if the rest of the body is broken (like the spine), meaning that the helmet alone doesn't give you road safety/ life protection.

Drive as if you wouldn't wear one.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :FireTom


Hmm, sorry - maybe I get a spanking now but in 36yrs of cycling I never wore one - and most likely I never will. My personal choice and I stand for it, keep your criticism.



I oppose legislation forcing adults to wear safety belts or bike helmets. I support it for those under the age of majority.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Side that - the traffic is getting worse, cars are getting faster, people are more stressed out in traffic and drive like censored censored - kids remain the same.

They should wear protection, same might apply to senior citizens...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:This is a daily arguement in our house. Noah is an ardent skateboarder and is picking up BMX-ing.

I read this to him Mike (thank you) and he pretty much shrugged it off and said "I don't like wearing them."
When he doesn't he gets his board/bike taken away and it is mandatory at the skate parks.

I watched one of his friends fall off his board and his head bounced on the pavement. It wasn't bad, he got up and kept going, but his mom said nothing and she was *holding his helmet in her hands*

Tom is also right about the fitting and the proper helmet. I can't say how many times I've seen kids with helmets unlatched. They do no good that way.

I keep telling Noah if the pro's wear them, then you should too but that whole "invincibility attitude" is a hard one to crack. Not that it stops me from being strict about it, it just makes it more challenging. wink

What's worse, to me, is when we go to bike club (as in motorcycles) outings and see children with skull helmets(looks like a bowl upside-down on the head) not full head/face ones. That really makes me angry.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted:The main problem with cycle helmets is that there's no industry standard/legally required testing of them as there is with motorcycle helmets. That leaves us with no way of deciding what makes a good helmet, other than (possibly) price.
There is also anecdotal evidence that cyclists with helmets get passed closer by cars than those without - but it's just that, anecdotes...

Also, from another forum entirely:
 Written by :'Bent Riders OnLine

Dieter, who, last August, had a serious crash riding his df WITH a helmet on. Brain hematoma, 6 weeks in a coma, still rehabbing, now riding a Trice Q. No visible damage to the helmet!!! Are helmets the ultimate safety device for riders? Dieter proved that you can still get your bell rung and cracked even with a helmet.



So you take your chances with or without your helmet. Personally, I ride without one, it's a comfort issue. Mostly. When I have my daughter on the back on her half-a-bike-trailer-whatsit we both wear helmets, I can't be doing with telling her to do something I'm not (at least while she's watching...). My favourite pieces of safety equipment are 1) Being fully aware of the road and its users, and 2) Bright yellow clothing. The times I've been meeting the pavement altogether too fast have always been from having someone not see me.

Fairly soon I shall be starting a regular long commute, at which point I shall be investing in a good quality, well ventilated helmet (the Giro Atmos) and wearing it, since I'll be riding at rush hour, when road users seem at their worst, and I'll be riding home tired, so perhaps not as awake and aware as I should be..


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :Pele


This is a daily arguement in our house. Noah is an ardent skateboarder and is picking up BMX-ing.

I read this to him Mike (thank you) and he pretty much shrugged it off and said "I don't like wearing them."
When he doesn't he gets his board/bike taken away and it is mandatory at the skate parks................

I keep telling Noah if the pro's wear them, then you should too but that whole "invincibility attitude" is a hard one to crack. Not that it stops me from being strict about it, it just makes it more challenging. wink





IMO, a big problem with young people's 'choice' of whether or not to wear helmet/pads when skating/BMX-ing, is that there's always been so much peer pressure to not do so.

Skating's been round so long before the current understanding of head injury risks, that helemt use was, and often still is, seen as 'wussy'.

This is in sharp contrast to muni/off road unicycling which was pretty much developed by adults, so, when it came to the online vids and DVD's, helmet use was highly visible and there's far less 'helmet-stigma'.

It must be hard for kids, knowing that they'll be regarded as wimpy and uncool if they choose to wear a helmet; naturally, many will decide not to, citing things like discomfort.

As for the pros- I suspect that the reasons they wear helmets were more to do with the people running the events being worried about being held legally responsible for any accidents, than the pros themselves choosing the wear helmets (not that it matters, the end result is the same, that kids get to see their heroes taking some precautions).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :Pele


I keep telling Noah if the pro's wear them, then you should too but that whole "invincibility attitude" is a hard one to crack. Not that it stops me from being strict about it, it just makes it more challenging. wink



It's simple: "If I ever hear that you were on your bike/blades without a helmet, you will do neither for one year."

And during that year he gets to pick a different activity, like Karate, Swimming, or anything else that doesn't involve a helmet.

He'll learn.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning


It's simple: "If I ever hear that you were on your bike/blades without a helmet, you will do neither for one year."

And during that year he gets to pick a different activity, like Karate, Swimming, or anything else that doesn't involve a helmet.

He'll learn.



lol..That's cute. wink
I wish it were that simple, but it's not. To take away stuff like that for that long would also involve me grounding him from going to his friends for the same amount of time...since they all do these as well.
An action so severe as that actually sets a child up to do more behind the parents back.
He wears his helmet here in the 'hood, at the skate parks and in the village where we, like Gnor, have spies.

He already does the other activities, and then some. Football, LaCrosse, Basketball and Ultimate Frisbee, plus swimming in our pool.
"Other" activities would also mean very little.

If he's caught helmetless, he gets in trouble, but not for a year and in that case he gets grounded from that friend for the duration as well.
It actually has worked in other areas of his life, where his friends know my rules and won't allow Noah to break them (don't get me started on the jackass jr. videos his friends make!).
Just takes conditioning wink

And in a fortuitous co-inky-dink
Top 5 worst sports for injuries

Number 2: Bicycling.. because of head injury.

"In terms of recreation, when you have kids biking around the neighborhood, I dont think there is enough oversight on the parents or kids part, van Die says. Kids probably dont want to wear helmets if their friends or parents arent [wearing them], and they definitely dont know what the guidelines are for an ATV.

Its estimated that up to 85 percent of bicycling head injuries could be prevented through proper use of a helmet, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...

Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning

And parents, the rule with your kids should be: "If I ever catch you riding or skating without a helmet, you will do neither for one year."



Could I not just make doubly sure by putting his helmet back on, but with glue this time? ubbangel

Seriously though:

 Written by :Doc Lightning


I oppose legislation forcing adults to wear safety belts or bike helmets. I support it for those under the age of majority.



I don't want to take this thread offtopic but I am interested that you would oppose this, because if a back seat passenger isn't wearing a belt, in a car accident, they can severely injure or kill the person in the seat in front of them.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:I'm not going to argue about helmets for bicycles, or requiring them for minors. But there are plenty of arguments against full face helmets on motorcycles. I'll be the first to agree a skullcap on a kid isn't going to do much better than nothing at all. But there needs to be serious consideration about the weight of the helmet on the child. As far as I know there haven't been many studies on neck trauma from helmets, especially on children. Full face helmets are heavier, and tend to lead to more severe neck trauma from the g-forces involved. Not to mention that SOP for EMS on scene is to cut the chinstrap and remove the helmet, not as much of a problem with a 3/4 helmet, but when you start getting into full face helmets + neck trauma bad things can happen.

As long as the kid doesn't land on their face, or go sliding down the street on their belly they'll probably be safer with a 3/4 helmet. Although they are starting to come up with nice hybrid designs that help a lot..

Just my 2 cents


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:ok, this is the quick "i have an exam in 2 hours" answer. It's also an answer people are going to hate me for, but deal with it. *lines up with firetom to get a spanking from everyone*

I think that compulsory helmets reflect the attitudes of the general community towards cyclists. The more anti-cyclist the community is (like Australia) the more likely they are to have compulsory helmets.

I'm actually fine with compulsory helmet wearing, given the state of emotions here. It just makes me sad that they're required.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Lurch, my son is 13 and taller/stronger than most adults we know wink

We did *alot* of research prior to getting our helmets and the new DOT full face helmets are better than the ones that used to cause injury. These have been tested by multiple groups and are concidered by far the safest for street cruiser cycles (not racing/dirt bike/sport etc.).
Since they are sized, the weight isn't an issue because a child is going to wear a helmet sized and weighted for them.
Our motocycle courses, sanctioned by DOT, cover all of that in a chart but also do not support putting a small child on a bike.
BTW, our chin straps are really easy to cut or even undo. I can get mine off in less than 20 secs.

I agree with Mike about requiring them for children but not adults.

Well, Rouge, sad state is that the helmet laws are put in place because of the level of accidents that go up, not because of any pre-emptive care. I'm not sure I can say it reflects an anti-cycle sentiment (since I don't live there, but here, which isn't anti-cycle but has laws) or just a response to people not paying attention, on both parts.

And besides, I think you just want to be spanked wink
spank


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted: Written by :Lurch


Not to mention that SOP for EMS on scene is to cut the chinstrap and remove the helmet, not as much of a problem with a 3/4 helmet, but when you start getting into full face helmets + neck trauma bad things can happen.




I don't know what SOP or EMS is.. I'm guessing the first aid requirements for your ambulance service??

I've been taught that you don't remove the helmet unless they're having breathing difficulties. (because of possible C-spine injury that are already there, not because of C-spine injuries you're going to cause...)
If someone isn't breathing and you need to perform EAR, then it doesn't really matter if they have a neck injury.

Though many would argue dead>quadraplegic... but I think since dead<'not dead and perfectly fine', is also a possibility, then in this case you should remove the helmet.

Where is it custom to remove the helmet no matter what?


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:well it depends where your riding - but personally if your riding on the road without a helmet your an idiot regardless of your age.



im not exactly sure what sort of basic bike helmet limits your vision?? are your eyes in irregular places? i wear something like this.




Non-Https Image Link




so is there no regulation for cycling helmets in other countries? in Oz helmets have to conform to specific australian standards which includes testing (- its a different standard of course from motorcycle helmets.)



i suppose if your riding consists of gentle cycles around the park and inner city areas below 20km/h - well you could probably get away with it - but if theres the potential at crashing at 50km/h down a hill your heads going to look like a crushed water melon.i hit least 50km/h every day i ride and theres quite heavy traffic so theres no way id ride without one.



there will always be a certain percentile of people who ride without a helmet for theres entire lives without anything terrible happening - of course thats how probability works. but i dont want to be another statistic on the roads.

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1212973403)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :Spanner



 Written by biggrinoc Lightning


I oppose legislation forcing adults to wear safety belts or bike helmets. I support it for those under the age of majority.



I don't want to take this thread offtopic but I am interested that you would oppose this, because if a back seat passenger isn't wearing a belt, in a car accident, they can severely injure or kill the person in the seat in front of them.



Because the driver of the car can require the individual to buckle up. I don't like telling adults how to behave unless they are putting someone in danger without their consent.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:A healthy sized 13 year old kid isn't that much of an issue, when you start getting into a smaller child that isn't nearly fully grown a full face helmet is getting way too heavy. Riding around while everything is fine and dandy it won't be an issue, but if they start bouncing down the road at 40mph the heavier the helmet the more it's going to hurt them.

Mosts of the tests for helmets are done with vertical drop testing. Which would be compression trauma, falling straight down on your head. That does *not* account for the forward motion involved in an actual accident.

natasqi: SOP = standard operating procedure EMS = emergency medical services

It's almost always required to remove a full face helmet after an accident. NY requires them to maintain airway at all times, which absolutely cannot be done with a full face helmet on. Oregon is similar, and most others that I know of. You can't properly assess someone with a full face helmet on them. You can't even properly assess them with a 3/4, but at least you can control the airway and stabilize them enough to get them to the hospital where it can be cut off if needed.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:I cycle quite a bit, if its either 2 miles into town or the 13 miles I go to work. I always wear a helmet when I go to work, mainly because I cycle along Heathrow where the speed limit is 70mph on the road, so really I need all the protection I can get on that one!

I don't always wear it when I do recreational cycling since I'm usually in areas where speed isn't much of an issue. If I cycle through London though I always wear a helmet since you never know what stupid idiot could come round the corner.

I support what doc said that adults shouldnt be forced to wear safety helmets/buckle their belt unless they endager someone else.

For those that are anti helmet let me say this: If your cycling and you get knocked down and say break an arm or wrist....it'll heal. If you get knocked down and hit your head.... that could be permanent brain damage.

Advice on anyone buying a helmet, you get what you pay for, I spent 50 pounds on mine and wouldnt suggest paying any less!


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:I just want to make it clear that I am *not* against helmets at all, and I'm all for making them mandatory for youth. I'm just saying that certain things need to be taken into consideration when choosing a helmet, bigger isn't always better

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:people should have to wear helmets in cars.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:http://www.helmets.org/

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Can we put the addenda in here too; make sure your helmet fits properly. I used to fit them when I worked in a bike shop, so many parents buy huge sizes for the kids to grow into with the result that the helmet slips to the back of the head leading the forehead completely exposed, it's completely pointless this way.



Helmets have never bothered me; I've always accepted them as part of cycling in the same way that I accept steel capped toes as part of my present PPE (personal protective equipment). But, as is drilled into you every time you have an induction, PPE is the least effective form of personal protection; eliminating the danger is the best, so don't put your faith in your helmet and take unnecessary risks, it just don't work.



Incidentally, there was some reasearch a number of years ago into the effectiveness of hemets (it was published in a mountain bike mag I used to get), it found that in a fatal accident, a helmet offered no protection, but in a potentially brain damaging one there was a much higher chance of avoiding it. So, if you're doing to die, a helmet won't protect you, but it might just save you from spending your days as a dribbling wreck, and so that's worth wearing one.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:My Mum actually wouldn't let my brother ride *with* a helmet, when he was little- (we are talking ickle kiddy bike and only on a very very quiet road) because he'd managed to get the idea that 'Helmets Make You Safe So If You Wear One Nothing Can Hurt You' and would do stuff like try swerve into the busy road which ran past the house because the Helmet of Power would keep the cars away.. right..?

THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:@ Dentrassi:



I was more thinking of something like this -
Non-Https Image Link




In case of riding a motorcycle (in countries/ states where it's law and this law gets enforced) I wear this:




Non-Https Image Link




Open face... XXL/ and 1370g of plastic around my bell rolleyes shrug very comfi [/irony]



Pls note that "a life saved" does not say anything about the quality of life after it got saved.



Even a bicycle helmet like the one you displayed - as previously mentioned: many helmets do give a false feeling of protection. Any neck protection on this one? ...



As to your use of i-words: ..... *coughs* juggle meditate no I'm not going to respond to that weavesmiley and join the rising economy of the i...ndians... wink



Great link, Rouge... smile



Personally I choose to live my life differently shrug maybe I should become an organ donor? umm

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1213018658)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Why do bicycle-helmets don't have to pass minimal technical requirements?



However: If you are looking for a reliable helmet, check with consumer organizations or rely on brands like Nolan...



I for my part notice that when I am wearing a helmet I'm less likely to turn my head (merely use the mirror instead) and my head aches latest after two hours riding. Reason for that is: helmets (like shoes) are made for average heads that in fact don't exist. And in my case the helmets are giving me pain (too small).



@ OWD: I have the same suspicion that the reason for helmets being mandatory at events is insurance.

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1213018413)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:From Motorcycle Council of NSW

"Casualties wearing helmets

A full-faced helmet should only be removed if the injured rider does not have a clear airway and cannot breathe. In all other circumstances the helmet should remain in place unless the rider chooses to remove it him/herself. In the situation where a casualty requires expired air resuscitation and is wearing a full-faced helmet, the helmet must be removed by at least two people. The first person must ensure that the head and neck are completely stabilised and supported to avoid any further damage. The second person must carefully remove the helmet in a way that minimizes all movement to the head and neck. Once the helmet has been removed, the first aiders can perform expired air resuscitation."

and I don't think I'd find it that difficult to assess breathing, as long as the visor can be removed/slid up... Of course if you can't even visualise the person's face, that makes it harder.


And yeah - when I see kids riding around wearing helmets that are soo far back, they won't do anything.. grrr..
I want to start a public health campaign where I go around to schools, stand in front of kids with helmets on and swing a large bit of cardboard (probably more likely to be approve than a 4by2) into their face.
"Oh, that hit your face?? Well, then fix your helmet and we'll try again!"


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simta
BRONZE Member since Apr 2006

simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings

Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by :natasqi

"Oh, that hit your face?? Well, then fix your helmet and we'll try again!"



ubblol ubblol ubblol


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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Mand
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada

Total posts: 2317
Posted:I found this very interesting in the link that rouge dragon posted, as it relates a lot to something that happened to me.

 Written by

The elongated "aero" shape continues to dominate as well. This is a less than optimal design for crashing. We believe that the ideal surface for striking a road resembles a bowling ball: hard, smooth and round. Round shells reduce to a minimum any tendency for a helmet to "stick" to the surface when you hit, with the possibility of increasing impact intensity, contributing to rotational brain injury or jerking the rider's neck. They also eliminate the aero tail that can snag, or in a backward impact can shove the helmet aside as you hit, exposing your bare head.



I was in a pretty bad bike accident 10 years ago. I was wearing a fairly good helmet, which was properly fitted.
Somewhere in the crash, after Id gone over the bars and bounced off the road, my bikes front chainrings slammed into the back of my helmet (the thickest portion, where the back of the helmet meets the top). They went through the entire thickness of the helmet, but luckily stopped as they touched my head.
In this case I think the elongated aero shape saved me from injury to the back of my head, as a thinner portion of helmet might not have been enough to stop the chainrings.

The flipside to this is that this type of helmet design did exactly what the article states. The back of the helmet certainly snagged on the bike, and I have no way of knowing if it stuck to the road, but even with a perfectly fitting helmet it was pushed backwards, leaving my forehead exposed. All this happened moments before the front of my head was slammed into the road (with the force of a bike still travelling very fast hitting the back of my head). Because my helmet had been pulled back, the top of my right eye socket shattered on impact.

I almost didnt survive (there were other injuries too, some major), but one thing that I was told repeatedly during recovery was that my helmet undoubtedly saved my life. Examining it afterwards (I still keep it) I can totally see why. It looks like it was attacked by a mini chainsaw on the back, and the marks match up perfectly to a bikes chainrings. The rest of the helmet is covered in dents and cracks. It took me a while to be able to look at it without thinking thats what my skull couldve looked like.

Yes I know I wasnt just pootling around the streets- I was on a training weekend for a race, and was going downhill at around 40mph when I came off, but I still look at what happened to me and what couldve happened to me, and I dont understand peoples reluctance to wear a helmet. The attitude of well its my choice and its only going to affect me clearly shows they havent given it the thought it deserves. An accident where someone is badly injured or killed affects many people, not just the injured.

I dont agree with compulsory helmet laws for adults though (but I do for under 18s). I do think that as adults we have the right to chose how we protect our bodies from injury, but I do wish that people choosing not to wear a helmet would give it a little more thought as to WHY they choose not to wear it, and give a little acknowledgement to the potential effect of that choice on other people.


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:Natasqi: I'm not saying they *should* remove the helmet, I'm just telling you that more likely than not, if unless you're up walking around, in which case you've probably pulled your helmet off yourself, it's *going* to come off asap. You may not think it's very hard to evaluate someones breathing with a full face helmet on, but it's more difficult than you think. Throw in road noise from traffic and adrenaline from a scene and it gets extremely difficult.

Like I said, NY requires them to maintain a stable airway, you *cannot* ensure that with a full helmet on. What if they stop breathing? then you have to hurry to remove a helmet from a compromised spine. What if you're on the road? There is typically only one medic in the back, so the bus has to stop so you can do what you need to do.

2 people to remove a helmet is bare minimum, to do it properly and even remotely safely you need at least 3 people. But they'll do it with two if that's what they have.

If you're talking a 3/4 helmet (like the black one FireTom posted) they will probably keep it on. The orange/yellow one is coming off though.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :FireTom


Pls note that "a life saved" does not say anything about the quality of life after it got saved.



An injury that breaks your neck tends not to hurt your brain. An injury that breaks your brain often tends not to hurt your neck. I don't have data to back this up; I just have my own experience.

Brains are more fragile than necks.

And in the case of this child, had he been wearing a helmet, he would be a bit confused now with some bleeding in his brain, but he would recover essentially full cognitive function. Instead, he is still alive, and I wish he weren't.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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