Forums > Social Discussion > Bush tries for permanent occupation and US legal immunity...

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Insert "entirely un-surprised but still distraught smiley" here

Full story at the Independent

*sigh*
What a legacy to leave...


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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Total posts: 3597
Posted:I can't imagine that they would sign it, sounded like only a small percentage of people there want us there.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:But it's not always a case of "want" - the US have enough influence, not to mention bargaining chips to force the signing through...

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Any which way - if that's fact it'd clearly show how whacko this Billy Boy really is. May he never have to face the truth (of my world) but may the light come to him.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:....it was about liberating the people of iraq...........

yeah.......


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 315
Posted: Written by :Article

Washington also wants control of Iraqi airspace below 29,000ft and the right to pursue its "war on terror" in Iraq, giving it the authority to arrest anybody it wants and to launch military campaigns without consultation.

Mr Bush is determined to force the Iraqi government to sign the so-called "strategic alliance" without modifications

"The essence of this agreement is to turn the Iraqis into slaves of the Americans."

The US is adamantly against the new security agreement being put to a referendum in Iraq, suspecting that it would be voted down




I still support the war in Iraq though, I think it was a very good thing that America has dissembled a ruthless dictatorship and established a democracy.


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :NathanielEverist


I still support the war in Iraq though, I think it was a very good thing that America has dissembled a ruthless dictatorship and established a democracy.



Please provide evidence that a stable democracy currently exists in Iraq.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted: Written by :

and established a democracy.



 Written by :

The US is adamantly against the new security agreement being put to a referendum in Iraq, suspecting that it would be voted down



umm

Democracy, but only if it goes their way...


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BurdaA
SILVER Member since Jul 2007

BurdaA

Sacrebleu
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kin...

Total posts: 377
Posted:Utterly gobsmacking. PRC/Tibetan parallels anyone (albeit more polite)? 'It's for their own good! They just don't know it.'

 Written by :Durbs


 Written by :

and established a democracy.



 Written by :

The US is adamantly against the new security agreement being put to a referendum in Iraq, suspecting that it would be voted down



umm

Democracy, but only if it goes their way...


Agreed!

I do so enjoy the constant barrage of referendums our age old UKstyle democracy affords us.
...wait wink


Poi(poi~y) n. : A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
- part owner of Wooktastic

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 315
Posted:All I can say is... lol.

Sorry, maybe selecting a bunch of quotes that completely contradicted my statement prior to said statement being stated wasn't enough to display my sarcasm. The U.S.A went about the War in Iraq in a clumsy and needlessly bloody manner.

BurdaA,

I too enjoy a good referendum, on behalf of Australia I thank the UK for it's political system and style of referendums.


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BurdaA
SILVER Member since Jul 2007

BurdaA

Sacrebleu
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kin...

Total posts: 377
Posted:On behalf of the UK you are most welcome good sir.

Although I was pushing a little satire, there's often outcries for a referendum when a major political/legal change is put forward, and I can't remember the last time one was granted. A referendum seems to be more commonly used as a counter-argument in the House of Commons than anything else here (purely my own experience).

Here's hoping yours shall fare better than ours.


Poi(poi~y) n. : A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
- part owner of Wooktastic

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BurdaA
SILVER Member since Jul 2007

BurdaA

Sacrebleu
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kin...

Total posts: 377
Posted:Here we go:



Linky poos



I was 11 the last time I was in an affected area.


Poi(poi~y) n. : A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
- part owner of Wooktastic

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 315
Posted:Nope, Australia's history of referendums is littered with failures. Of the last 44 referendums, only 8 have passed, and they were on pretty passable things, like having Aboriginals included in the census.

(Off topic)I personally feel that the difficulty of passing a referendum that is embedded into the constitution is a little bit too harsh, as it is exceedingly difficult to do so, and due to Australia's natural tendency towards conservatism, especially in more rural areas, most referendums fail. Unfortunately, but also kind of ironically, we need to pass a referendum to make the passing of referendums easier.

Although the difficulty of a successful referendum in my view binds our constitution, others feel that it solidifies it, and prevents governments or states from taking advantage. It's a safe-guard, and one that should only be altered when it's of utmost importance. (end off topic)

Sorry to go off topic. Back on topic, The war in Iraq was poorly executed.


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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand

Total posts: 1965
Posted:Isn't it just typical of Bush to continue being a censored right up untill the end.

Sorry to all of you yanks but you screwed up big time when you voted him back in for a second term.

Granted the US did rid Iraq of Sadam but is there really any significant difference between a ditatorship and the US Occupation. Both partys consider(ed) themselves to be above the law and neither have given the people of Iraq freedom from an opressive system of government. All the US has really done is change the rules for their own benifit, so the Iraq can say that it has *Democracy*. Meanwhile the US is pushing the newly appointed officals into a corner and dictating their actions.

Just so that I'm clear I don't hate the Americans people nor do I love people of Iraq but I do have issues with American politics (especialy Bush).


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:.... errm I suppose you guys have still problems in figuring out exactly what democracy is. Like 'true' communism - 'true' democracy is yet to be installed.

Simply going to vote every 4yrs has nothing to do with democracy... at least IMO.

It doesn't surprise me that GWB is still clinging on to the New American Century ubblol the website got suspended - also that is not surprising shrug just too obvious.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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BurdaA
SILVER Member since Jul 2007

BurdaA

Sacrebleu
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kin...

Total posts: 377
Posted:ditto

 Written by :DarkFyre


Isn't it just typical of Bush to continue being a censored right up untill the end.


Absolutely, however I doubt this idea was actually Bush's. It would make sense to do this before he steps down, so as not to tarnish the reputation of the next president should he be republican. And by binding it in writing should Obama get in, it makes his declaration of withdrawal difficult to enforce. The harder Obama's job is, the less likely the democrats would be re-elected. Although this is only scratching the surface.

Politics innit

..Sux dunnit


Poi(poi~y) n. : A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
- part owner of Wooktastic

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Total posts: 3597
Posted: Written by :DarkFyre


Sorry to all of you yanks but you screwed up big time when you voted him back in for a second term.



Now I'm not entirely sure, as i don;t really follow politics, and am not a registered voter, BUT i beleive that Bush lost the popular vote both terms....it is the vote of the electoral college that matters....


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :DarkFyre


Sorry to all of you yanks but you screwed up big time when you voted him back in for a second term.



*throws up hands* I didn't vote for him!

He is not my president and never was. He tried to be my dictator, and I suppose it is a sign of strength of the U.S. that he failed. Although he's still got a few months to declare a state of emergency and have himself installed as Supreme Grand Poohbah For Life.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 315
Posted: Written by :FireTom


.... errm I suppose you guys have still problems in figuring out exactly what democracy is. Like 'true' communism - 'true' democracy is yet to be installed.




Democracy in its purest form would be everybody having input into every political issue, which currently isn't practical.

In the future, with the development of increased telecommunication technologies, and the awareness of how to use, and accessibility to these technologies will in my opinion make a far more "true" form of democracy in the future.

However, in the mean-time, I agree that voting for a representative every 4 years isn't an ideal democracy, but it's a practical one based upon tradition, and it's one that's not going to change without a fairly major referendum. I'm against representative government all together, as once you've instilled your representatives in Parliament, there's no legal obligation for them to maintain the promises they may've made during their political campaign, and in some cases, a single politician is given enough power to do, well, pretty much whatever they please within the realms of the constitution, something that I cannot condone.

So, as much as it sucks, until there's a BIG change to the system, we'll have to keep voting for politicians once every four years with no guarantee that they'll even do what we voted them in to do. How I love "democracy" wink


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:I voted for him and I'm not apologizing, nor do I think that I made the wrong vote

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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BurdaA
SILVER Member since Jul 2007

BurdaA

Sacrebleu
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kin...

Total posts: 377
Posted:I admire your candour faithinfire, but still struggle to understand why you feel that way. I expect living in the UK I have a heavily media skewed view of Bush himself (Anti-Bushism being a popular topic here), but surely the mistakes(imo) his administration has made can't be subject to this. They're just too official.

I'm sorry if this seems intrusive, believe me I'm simply a curious creature lacking in social finesse.

I remember you saying in another thread that it was more a case of thinking he's done a better job than the alternatives would have. Do you think he's done a good job, or that he's simply the lesser of two evils?


Poi(poi~y) n. : A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
- part owner of Wooktastic

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