Forums > Social Discussion > 'natural condom' could stop HIV

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Icarus
member

Member Since: 30th Sep 2003
Total posts: 165
Posted:Australian researchers said Wednesday they had developed a means of producing a "natural condom" which could prevent the spread of AIDS.

The Melbourne researchers said they believe men could reduce their risk of contracting the HIV virus, which causes the deadly disease AIDS, by applying the female hormone, oestrogen, to their penis once a week.

University of Melbourne researcher Professor Roger Short said that use of an oestrogen cream could quadruple the thin layer of the protein keratin on the skin and thereby provide a natural defensive layer.

"You create what you could call a natural condom," Short told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

"You create a biological membrane which the virus can't get through."

Short, a strong advocate of the circumcision of men as a protection against HIV, said he had not yet done tests to prove that the virus was defeated by the keratin cover.

But the researchers said the technique, which does not protect against other sexually transmitted diseases or pregnancy, could provide a cheap and simple method of guarding against HIV around the world.

The research, detailed in the Public Library of Science medical journal PLoS ONE, is expected to be tested in clinical trials in Africa.

Hmmm... interesting stuff in there...

Side note-
Jebus... clinical trials in Africa. No wonder people are more trusting of local herbs then western medicine. Africa again!


... simplify ...

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by :Icarus


Short, a strong advocate of the circumcision of men as a protection against HIV,



how would circumcision protect against HIV?


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:because the delicate skin under the foreskin is how the virus gets into the blood.. as well being delicate= possibility of small tears. That's why thickening the skin there is important. It's not a noticeable thickening.. just a few layers of cells.. but enough apparently. He's not totally an advocate of circumcision in adults though cos not so much gets taken off. (I heard him on the radio tonight)

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted:sounds like good reason then for circumcision of newborns

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted:I'm not comfortable with circumcision, and I would presume that I wouldn't like it if I were made to undergo a procedure at birth against my will, regardless of the intent behind it. Now that I'm an adult, I'm given the choice, and I choose to stay natural, not that I think there's anything wrong with circumcision, especially if it helps protect against aids, but I believe in the freedom to choose, something that isn't given to newborns who are circumcised.

But before this gets off topic and into a debate about circumcision, I think this new idea is great. Anything that reduces the spread of AIDS is a good thing, any idea if it is thought to work on other sexually transmitted viruses? Because seriously, STDs (or STIs as I think the government likes them now to be called) take a lot of the fun out of... ahem... life.


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:It seems like Professor Roger Short has moved on from lemon juice, which seemed to have so much much potential a few years ago.



AIDS scientists trial lemon juice douche



Lemon juice 'could stop Aids



 Written by Icarus

Side note-Jebus... clinical trials in Africa. No wonder people are more trusting of local herbs then western medicine. Africa again!





Id suggest, it's Africa again! because AIDS is such a huge problem in Africa.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1212586458)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by :NathanielEverist


I'm not comfortable with circumcision, and I would presume that I wouldn't like it if I were made to undergo a procedure at birth against my will,



well you wouldnt know, and wouldnt be able to feel it and within the first few days of birth there are no nerve-endings there AFAIK.

i believe IF circumcision is really proven to reduce the risk of contracting hiv then it should be done to newborns. anything we can do to reduce the spread of it


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :simta



how would circumcision protect against HIV?



The theory is that the glans of the penis (the head) in the uncircumcised man is covered with a thin mucous membrane. In the circumcised man, the mucous membrane becomes thicker and thus harder to penetrate. This would reduce HIV transmission rates.

The thing is that when you do the numbers, you would have to circumcise between 30 and 100 boys to prevent one case of HIV.

CONDOMS prevent HIV transmission. And they also prevent STD spread and pregnancy. As for the estrogen cream, I haven't read this yet, but I would need to see some numbers. I don't think it would be ethical to advise people to stop using condoms, but it would be interesting to see if this lowers HIV acquisition rates.

The thing is that although it works in a broad numbers sense by reducing overall HIV prevalence, I don't like the fact that these methods only protect men. They don't protect women from getting infected by infected men.

I think that educating women that their bodies are sacred and belong only to them and that they need to insist on condoms and look at their partners' penises to ensure that they are actually wearing condoms before they insert will do a lot more than creams and circumcision.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning

I think that educating women that their bodies are sacred and belong only to them and that they need to insist on condoms and look at their partners' penises to ensure that they are actually wearing condoms before they insert will do a lot more than creams and circumcision.



yup indeed.

was not suggesting it as an alternative at all. merely as another approach to do aswell as everything else.


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Third that!

 Written by : research

The Melbourne researchers said they believe men could reduce their risk of contracting the HIV virus, which causes the deadly disease AIDS, by applying the female hormone, oestrogen, to their penis once a week.



And what would he suggest the women to use to prevent contraception? umm Is his research funded by the oestrogen industry?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:CIRCUMCISION FOR EVERYONE! biggrin

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Steady on there Jo. Female cirumcision is no joke.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:ok ok, Circumcision for boys! Yay!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:One of the reasons they were pursuing this line of research is that it would be very cheap and easy to manufacture locally, whereas condom supply and use is a big issue of culture/expense in lots of 3rd world countries. Plus circumcision is not an option for most adult men.. and also not always culturally acceptable. There are plenty of other ways for women to use contraception.. Also.. sometime people WANT to get pregnant so condom use is not always what they want. It's all part of the mix.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:I didn't know that HIV got in THROUGH the skin. I thoguht it got in throgh the urethra. So what about the inside membrane?

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :jo_rhymes



ok ok, Circumcision for boys! Yay!





*EDIT* on re-reading, the post below sounded a bit confrontational to me. It was more meant to be a meditative question, a challenge.



Jo, do you have a penis? In my opinion, the only person who should be making cosmetic decisions about taking a knife to a boy's penis is the owner of the penis. Does anyone have to electively remove a part of a baby boy's body without his consent?



It appalls me that physicians will do this procedure on a newborn boy because it's more "fashionable." I, for one, refuse to perform circumcisions. If a patient requests one, I try to talk them out of it, (it is not recommended by the AAP and I explain why) and if they insist, then I have no ethical choice but to respect their wish and refer them to someone who will do it. But I specify that I want general anesthesia and treat it like a serious surgical procedure, including clotting labs.



I'd never step so low as to compare male circumcision to female genital mutilation, but it is equally unnecessary.



Circumcision for nobody. Yay! biggrin

EDITED_BY: Doc Lightning (1212607771)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:I had circumcision as an adult, went a bit wrong, had students looking at my "bits" for a lesson due to a LOT of swelling frown so not a fun proceedure as it did hurt for a LONG time.

On a plus side it was quite morale boosting to have a doctor say he'd never seen one so large before even if there was significant swelling ubblol

I am a little surprised that this "natural condom" only seems to create a barrier for aids and nothing else. not even other STD's


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:Lol. sorry everybody for the offense I caused, I was only joking. Joking gets me nowhere. Boo.



No-on circumcise anything, ok?!! biggrin



*EDIT*



excuse my ignorance but I just assumed that there would be anaesthetic!! eek redface surely that should be illegal? You can't just cut something off?! eek

EDITED_BY: jo_rhymes (1212619792)


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by :Mynci


I am a little surprised that this "natural condom" only seems to create a barrier for aids and nothing else. not even other STD's



I think because HIV is a virus which are much smaller than a bacteria that causes other STDs. And that particular type of skin (under the foreskin) is very thin or permeable in a particular way. According to the radio interview I heard, it only takes a tiny bit more thickness to stop the virus crossing through.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Doc, thank you. I love you. ubblove

I really do not agree with circumcisions. I've seen two done on my nephews when I was pretty young myself and just being there, and for the aftermath, traumatised me. I refused to ever put a child of mine through it.
I can't imagine a man every choosing to do it to himself. Oi!

Now, I know in the caribean they rub oil on the foreskin of a child and eventually part of it falls off. They do this to stave off infections generally caused in the tropical climate. I can't remember what oil it was, I can ask though.
It seems more humane at least.

And yes to your statement on women Mike. ThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyou hug

I dunno.
This idea seems very..limited. To men. To AIDS. To guys remembering to put it on wink
Like pills are for women, to pregnancy, to women remembering to take them. lol

I dunno. I'd rather be fully safe than sorry.
I say sheath that puppy and let the games begin! wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Circumcision is off topic.



Meanwhile condom resistance' is a big issue in HIV prevention for many reasons in many cultures. (Personally, I can understand that. I find them a complete turnoff, and I'm in a culture where they are cheap, readily available and culturally acceptable/promoted).



Using a cream would not stop an already infected man infecting a woman; but it would stop him getting infected in the first place. It needs to be put on regularly and in advance; but seeing it's in HIS interest not to get infected.. and it doesn't interfere with his pleasure, make his willy look silly or him feel like he's trying to have a shower with a raincoat on, he might even remember/want to do it! All part of the mix...



Hmm maybe they can market it as enlargement cream wink THAT would ensure use for sure! And it's even accurate (itsy bitsy just a few cells enlargement but hey...that's marketing)


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted:I agree with Doc Lightning, to circumcise a child, a procedure that may have life-long effects, before they have any ability to protest, let alone decide not to I think is morally wrong. It's anti-liberal and I don't like it.

Of course, if it happened to me as a child, I wouldn't remember it, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have implications upon my life. Further than that, even not knowing something ever happened, let alone forgetting it, doesn't mean that the event that occurred without your knowledge still didn't affect your life.

As for this not protecting women, it's a shame that nothing has been made to protect women, but the less men have the AIDS virus, the more women get protected by extension. If men give it to the women, surely the lower the population of men that have AIDS the fewer women will contract it? So indirectly, I think that this would protect women also.


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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Or get the Catholic Church which actively stands against contraception and therefore condoms OUT OF AFRICA.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:to direct people to other circusicion threads...



clicky clicky



clicky clicky 2

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1212635939)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by :NathanielEverist


Of course, if it happened to me as a child, I wouldn't remember it, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have implications upon my life



what implications would it have on your life?

 Written by :Doc Lightning

it is not recommended by the AAP and I explain why



why is it not recommended?


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :simta


 Written by biggrinoc Lightning

it is not recommended by the AAP and I explain why



why is it not recommended?



Because it is not of any medical benefit over not being circumcised. While it does reduce the risk of certain diseases (penile cancer) the number of circumcisions required to prevent a given case of penile cancer is so high that it approximates the complication rate. That is to say your risk of getting a disease that could be prevented by circumcision is approximately equal to the risk of getting a circumcision.

Given even odds, you should not recommend a procedure.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:??? My lingo is limited:

 Written by : Mike

your risk of getting a disease that could be prevented by circumcision is approximately equal to the risk of getting a circumcision



Had circumcision as a child, as far as I remember no knife no anaesthetics => didn't do me any harm.

No recommendation does not equal discouragement. Guess Pele was asking whether there is any alternative to knife and anaesthetics? Must have been the case with me, or my memory erres me.

 Written by : Newgabe


Using a cream would not stop an already infected man infecting a woman; but it would stop him getting infected in the first place. It needs to be put on regularly and in advance; but seeing it's in HIS interest not to get infected.. and it doesn't interfere with his pleasure, make his willy look silly or him feel like he's trying to have a shower with a raincoat on, he might even remember/want to do it! All part of the mix...



I for my part am just not certain what the continuous use of oestrogen cream will do to my... errm 'sensitive body part' and unless research has conclusively proven that I'm not harming my body more than I already do by my current lifestyle, I am not opting for it.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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