• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 200.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 123
ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:so while reading up on new technologies and products i came across this

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/magazine/11ideas1-4.htmlhttp://

looks like it may have fallen over though since www.rapestop.net/ hasnt been updated since 2006

I think its a great invension as the rapist would have to go to hospital to have it removed and would be reported to the police. However the downside is the device could be worn for consensual sex as part of a malicious act of revenge or cruelty. Thoughts?


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted: Written by :ben-ja-men


 Written by : Dr_Birgit


I'm sure they'll get there no problem and will be delivered to every woman who needs them.

even if it only reached one woman who needed it wouldnt it go a good thing?



As many others, I think in a situation like that (you brought up Sudan - I'll stick with that example) causing the rapist pain is not advisable, which is why they don't kick and bite when they get raped in order to survive and bring "home" (if you can call their camp that) the supplies they went out for. Or they don't want to cause a fuss while being raped in the place they share with their kids.

 Written by :ben

any form of deterent is better than no deterent particularly if it requires surgical removal to prevent permanent damage, having to go to hospital and fess up, in a resource poor country repeat offenders could be denied treatment ...


Ideally that'd work. Realistically if that country provided women with that kind of help they probably wouldn't live in fear of rape on a regular basis.

 Written by :Ben

mass manufacture makes for low unit prices, governments spend huge amounts on aid, if the US government contributed 0.0001% of its $700 billion defense budget it wouldnt be a problem to supply most of the world.


Maybe, I'm not too worried about the cost but about the actual getting it to women who are in situations where they are repeatedly in danger of abuse. We assume having a local network that distributes the things out of sight/control of the potential offenders and having a second system in place that deals with the offenders afterwards. These are both not present in most cases.
Sure if it does help one woman, fine, but I'm with faith and others on that it'd most likely be turned against the woman, if not immediately then as revenge.
Many systematic rapes are group activities for thugs anyway, so what do you think will the rest of the gang do if one of their buddies hobbles off with both hands around the offending organ?

 Written by : Ben

 Written by : Dr_Birgit

When UN peacekeepers - the ones who WOULD be giving out the condoms I suppose - abuse children, how's that going to work?

not ALL peacekeepers abuse children


Luckily, no. Most are great people who sacrifice a lot to help. However, it was one of the examples that was brought up and in which case I think the condoms wouldn't be helpful at all.

 Written by :Ben

 Written by : Dr_Birgit

So what if someone just likes a helpless person to stroke their bits? Or practices anal abuse? What about beatings?

its not the solution to the worlds problems .... im not sure what gave you the impression that I thought it was .... im simply saying that it is an option that could help SOME people, surely it would be useful to the women you mentioned who get raped going to the river to get water for their families ..... possibly there would be retribution but atleast they have another option apart from being raped.


I never said what you imply. I fail to see how it would be useful for that woman, having been pinned down, humiliated and penetrated. The only use would be in the prevention of HIV etc, but a condom that doesn't bite does that, too.
Most of the damage, especially psychologically, has already been done at the point when the condom starts doing its job, and I doubt that many women will feel empowerment at the sight of a swearing scumbag who kicks them a few times or pulls his knife/gun before running off to the nearest doctor.

I just can't envision an example of a group of people for whom these would actually be useful.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted: Written by :ben-ja-men


 Written by :NathanielEverist


What needs to happen is a shift in perceptions, and less corrupt governments (assuming we're still talking about the military dictatorships). Obviously this is hard, but until those inherent problems are fixed, women in those countries are going to remain objects, for use as sexual gratification or target practice should the soldiers be so inclined...


Sorry I think I missed the alternative you where suggesting .... was it simply do nothing because we dont live in an ideal world?



I'm sorry you missed my point, but it was far from do nothing, that doesn't really make much sense. You got the not living in an ideal world part, but I was suggesting that we need to change the aspects that make that word so unideal. In the case of corrupt nations like Sudan, this involves far more than giving women rapex condoms. It involves repairing a broken government, a system of education that involves the instillation of moral values, not just to children, but in soldier's training also. They are more specific examples of what I meant by "a shift in perceptions, and less corrupt governments".

And in answer to your question, no, I've never been to Sudan, and I'm sure there are good people there, I never thought for a second that Sudan was a place just full of bad people, I'm just saying that there is a lot of internal corruption there. I don't think the fact that I haven't been somewhere exempts me from forming an opinion about it.



Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted: Written by :Icarus


Anti-rape condoms are designed for one purpose. To be worn by women who fear they may be raped.

Women should not have this fear.

Stop defending your sex and think about it. It is something that needs to be understood by everyone. It is not the responsibity of women to physically guard themselved from the possibility of rape. Their only responsibility is to make it clear that it is a horrendous and inhuman act. Same responsibility as every other person in this world.





well said Icarus

I'd like to know what men are doing within their own culture to send the message to fellow men that rape is wrong, wrong, wrong?

I see a lot of men patronising women and perpetuating the fear. Where are the conversations calling men out on their attitudes to women?



Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:The thing that really gets me about this thread is that so far, no woman/girl has said it's a good idea or they would use one. Including ones that have been raped. I guess that's a bit of a giveaway.
EDITED_BY: Dr_Birgit (1212655833)


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:I still can't read the article, even from the second link, but from what people have been saying here I don't like it, pretty much for the same reasons everyone else has said.

I shouldn't have to insert something in me every time I go out. And considering rape is about power over the victim, something that makes them lose power (like this) is only going to make them angry. Especially if in an abusive relationship!


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:Um.. I can't believe no one has noticed this fairly major point..

They actually require you to be raped to work! eek

THAT is the difference between these and pepper spray/self defence techniques.

They don't prevent rape- the best they can possibly do is stop a rapist midway through.

And.. it can only possibly stop one guy. In the countries where rape is commonplace, it's often *not* one guy.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?


Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted: Written by :hamamelis


Um.. I can't believe no one has noticed this fairly major point..

They actually require you to be raped to work! eek


And.. it can only possibly stop one guy. In the countries where rape is commonplace, it's often *not* one guy.



The reason you can't believe it is because you're wrong, I have mentioned both those points tongue hug


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:Yep- I did miss that part of your post, you used big words, so my little brain missed 'em. smile

THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?


FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:What Rouge said...

One side is that nobody should be forced to have sexual conduct - that's the ideal situation. Unfortunately it's reality that women and children are getting (sexually) abused. Sadly it's not a new phenomenon.

So where to go from there and what to do about it?

Even in the West it often is "look the other way" - I remember the story of a young women gettnig raped in a local train with other passengers keeping mum. But definitely a perpetrator who forces himself on a woman or child will get outraged if getting clamped.

The only benefit I could see is that the victim gets the moment of surprise to overpower the assailant and escape. Other than that I would regard it as a bad idea.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted:To give a bit of an abstract analogy, this is a bit like car stereos that, as an anti-theft feature, have a code that you have to enter to turn them on, the idea being that once the theif steals the head unit, soon after they'll realise it's useless because they don't know the code. The thing is, this really isn't a deterreant, because hardly any stereos actually have this feature turned on so a theif isn't going to look at a car and go "Nah, i don't think it's worth it, it's probably locked by a code". Likewise, hardly any women wear rapex condoms so a rapist isn't going to think "I'm not going to rape her because she might be wearing a rapex". It'd only work if practically all women wore rapex condoms in all dangerous situations, which I can't really see happening. And if it did, the rapists would get hold of unlocking devices.


jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:hmm, i don't know if i like the analogy of being compared to a stereo that needs to be unlocked, but i see your point!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:It wouldn't even work then- they're obviously fairly easy to remove, or it wouldn't be possible to change them every 24 hours- so.. it wouldn't be a deterrent if potential rapists didn't know about the possibility, and if they did.. well.. they'd remove them.

Unless you could figure out one you needed a pincode to remove, it wouldn't work the same way.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?


roarfire
roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside
Member Since: 8th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2676
Posted:It's definitely more reactive than proactive. One shouldn't have to rely a drastic measure for a 'just in case' situation.



I agree with whoever said it earlier - the fear should not be there at all.



I wouldn't wear one even if they were readily available


.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.


pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted: Written by :FireTom



The only benefit I could see is that the victim gets the moment of surprise to overpower the assailant and escape. Other than that I would regard it as a bad idea.



I totally agree. I think this is a pretty bad idea for so many reasons.

Many of you have been talking about rape in seriously impoverished areas. I'd just like to point out, that in these cases, there would be very limited, if any, medical care available, certainly no surgery available, and even if there was, the perpertrator would be unlikely to be able to afford it. I would also like to point out, that these situations are probably a bit rarer than you think.

As impractical as this idea is, I do think that at least someone is trying to make a difference. And thats important. Sometimes we have to think of a thousand different ideas, before we find a decent solution. (I doubt we'll ever find one that works 100%, but even one that worked 70% would make a massive difference!)


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted: Written by :hamamelis


It wouldn't even work then- they're obviously fairly easy to remove, or it wouldn't be possible to change them every 24 hours-



OK, have you ever tried to get your fingers or any sort of instrumentation into the vagina of a woman who is kicking and screaming?

I have. She was an autistic teenager and I won't say why we needed to get up there because it's gross. She had to be sedated. There is a kicking leg on either side of that orifice and if you need to get in there, there's just no good way without having both hands free.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Doc - can't share your experience.



I haven't even tried to make love to a woman that is kicking and screaming, to me it would be (a perversion of the terms anyway, apart from that being) impossible with both hands busy to restrain her. I need them for gentle acts of caressing.



Sadly your example is a good one, I hope you did have help. Thus said I fear that perpetrators in those areas we're grossly talking about - they also will have help. (For example in India unfortunately 'Gang rape' is much more common than you may think - same will apply to Africa and other parts of the Middle and Far East, especially when (para)military personnel is involved).



As for the West, it is a disgrace that this fear is still present and women have to take precautions.

Yet let's face the facts:



Rapex will not eliminate the urgent need for a healthy, empowering self-defence course ideally in Wing-Chun.



My advice: Girls please do it.

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1213518902)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning


 Written by :hamamelis


It wouldn't even work then- they're obviously fairly easy to remove, or it wouldn't be possible to change them every 24 hours-



OK, have you ever tried to get your fingers or any sort of instrumentation into the vagina of a woman who is kicking and screaming?

I have. She was an autistic teenager and I won't say why we needed to get up there because it's gross. She had to be sedated. There is a kicking leg on either side of that orifice and if you need to get in there, there's just no good way without having both hands free.



Rape is a very violent act committed by violent individuals with no respect for the victim as a human being.

I would imagine that most rapists would happily punch that victim unconscious if they deemed it necessary.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted: Written by :FireTom


I haven't even tried to make love to a woman that is kicking and screaming, to me it would be (a perversion of the terms anyway, apart from that being) impossible with both hands busy to restrain her. I need them for gentle acts of caressing.


Toot your own horn much? wink spank ubbangel
 Written by


Sadly your example is a good one, I hope you did have help. Thus said I fear that perpetrators in those areas we're grossly talking about - they also will have help. (For example in India unfortunately 'Gang rape' is much more common than you may think - same will apply to Africa and other parts of the Middle and Far East, especially when (para)military personnel is involved).



So what you're saying is that this condom wouldn't be 100% effective. Well that's fine because NOTHING is 100% effective. Even if this reduces rape by, say 20%, that would be a big step forward.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning


Toot your own horn much? wink spank ubbangel




You know you want him wink


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol not available however biggrin

If rapex would reduce rape by 20% - would you make it mandatory? wink

In the West it might be better than nothing but still I would favour a course in Wing-Chun - it's much better than that (IMHO)...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_condom
http://www.antirape.co.za/index.htm

Vagina Dentata.
No No No and 1000 times No
This is a very bad thing.



NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted:I just realised something that I don't think has been brought up yet. One of the premises of this device is that the medical attention required to remove the barbs brands the person a rapist, resulting in the hospitals informing the authorities and leading to an arrest.

Isn't this a breach of doctor-patient confidentiality? I'm fairly sure it is, meaning that informing the authorities would be illegal, and as such, may result in either doctors not informing the authorities for fear of reprimand, or the evidence of the patient's injuries as proof of rape being severely legally diminished as is all evidence gathered under illegal circumstances.

This may also lead to "victims" of the rapex not seeking medical attention, and possibly dying from ignoring it, or seeking medical help outside of hospitals through amateurs, non-legally practicing doctors or even bribing or threatening a doctor at gunpoint to remove the barbs.

I'm not saying that the rapist doesn't deserve to die, I'm not saying he does, that's a different argument altogether, and I'm not sure of confidentiality or evidence laws in poorer countries. I just think the above are a few points to consider. What do you think?



Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:I can't imagine the confidentiality laws are too strict in the countries where rape is so prevalent.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by :NathanielEverist


Isn't this a breach of doctor-patient confidentiality? I'm fairly sure it is, meaning that informing the authorities would be illegal


No, it would be the same as manditory reporting of gun shot wounds. Or the same as manditory reporting of suspected abuse. The Dr has a duty of care to both the patient and the public. A psychologist can break doctor-patient confidentially if they have reason to believe that the patient will harm themselves or others.

 Written by :NathanielEverist


This may also lead to "victims" of the rapex not seeking medical attention, and possibly dying from ignoring it


good


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted: Written by :ben-ja-men


No, it would be the same as manditory reporting of gun shot wounds. Or the same as manditory reporting of suspected abuse. The Dr has a duty of care to both the patient and the public. A psychologist can break doctor-patient confidentially if they have reason to believe that the patient will harm themselves or others.



Interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

 Written by :ben-ja-men


 Written by :NathanielEverist


This may also lead to "victims" of the rapex not seeking medical attention, and possibly dying from ignoring it


good



Tough justice. I used to think that rapists deserved to die too, but my views on morality and justice have changed over the years. I'm still not solid, of course if a rapist died, I wouldn't be shedding any tears, but if I had the choice of killing one, I probably wouldn't.

"We are all guilty"

I believe that a large proportion of our psyche is determined by events that occur throughout our lives, we are molded by our experiences and surroundings, so really, it isn't the person's fault they are a rapist, previous events have transpired to "sculpt" them as such. If a child was raised by a sexist pig, and as a result was himself (or herself) sexist, could you really blame them for that? That doesn't go to say that they should go without punishment, but death?

I only support the death sentence in instances where the issue is neurological or beyond the point of rehabilitation. If they can be rehabilitated, then it allows for them to be able to serve society for good. I believe that nearly everybody can be a vessel for good, some just need to be "shown the light" so to speak.

These views aren't set in stone in my mind, but I hold them currently. If you can convince me otherwise I will gladly alter my beliefs, so long as it's based on solid logical argument.



UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by : NathanielEverist

I believe that a large proportion of our psyche is determined by events that occur throughout our lives, we are molded by our experiences and surroundings, so really, it isn't the person's fault they are a rapist, previous events have transpired to "sculpt" them as such.



Oh don't get Ben started on that again! wink nana



NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted:There's been a discussion on this before? Under what topic?


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:No no no, there hasn't. biggrin

(or I can't remember that there has been)



Those who know, will, those who don't, don't need to smile



NathanielEverist
NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 20th Aug 2007
Total posts: 315
Posted:Ok, I'll remain blissfully ignorant. I hope I'm not touching any sensitive issues with Ben-ja-men here, am I overstepping my bounds?


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Dont think so.
It is an internet forum after all smile



Page: 123