Forums > Social Discussion > Youth violence in the UK - what the §$*! is happening?

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FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
"Interesting" news coming from the UK...

Adults in scare of youths, kids scraed of each other only leaving their homes armed. Teens threatened with disfiguration of death when they cross invisibles lines in their neighbourhood or support the 'wrong' soccer club.

Knife attacks on the rise, one case of teen murder after the other. Robert Knox killed, Amar Aslam killed, two fathers killed in Bradford and Bristol, one dragged out of his car and stabbed, the other one stabbed as he tried to mediate a fight outside a pub.

Another pub in Bromley attacked by 15 men with knives and screwdrivers, injuring patrons - "the pub looked like a slaughterhouse". At the station in East Ham, police spotted a stabbed 19 year old, two 17 year old in the north of London suffered got shot, one died and another is still in grievous condition.

Hello from the UK umm

Daily Telegraph talking about similarities to the "lost generation": The lost generation of today is not dying in the trench at the Somme, but on Britains streets. They are not dying for their country, they don't even die for their iPods, they die because they are on the side of the wrong gang or the wrong side of the street.

Statistics claim that the cases of violence declined, but they don't even take the 'under-16-yr-olds' into account.

What's happening, UK?

umm

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Yeah - the UK has turned to crap.

frown

jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
I think there is truth in this, I also thing it is just the mass media causing moral panic.

Yes there are alot of unsavoury characters about, my friend (named BIG DAVE as he is 6'5 and 2' wide!) got beaten up last year on his way home. I would have thought it impossible to beat Big Dave up, but a few people tried it.

I don't like how the media are causing this scaremongering. Love, not Fear people! meditate

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Yarp - bit off both really...

It's partly just a current "hot topic" and the media's all over it - which skews it's prevelance quite a bit, and also adds to the scaremongering.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


GothFrogetteBRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom


Posted:
i've found that the threats, people shouting at you in the street, violence in schools etc has not changed apart from two things, 1, it used to be glass bottles, base ball bats,iron bars,bricks etc and 2, the media coverage.

I feel so much compasion for the "youth of today" the kids i see, even if they are hanging out in groups of 20+ look so lost, all trying to fit into an unstable and changing society. personaly i think it is the adults in the kids lives that need to be looked at in order to break the chain of behaviour.

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows


LurchBRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA


Posted:
I don't even know if I should comment in here :P

I think Frogette is right, the adults are the ones that need to step up in order to fix a problem with the youth. But that's part of what makes these things so difficult to deal with, the actual cause of the problem may go back for generations. It's not a simple fix.

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals


BrennPLATINUM Member
Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
3,286 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Hmm... just what i needed to hear before I travel there frown

hug

ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Brenn - don't worry - We'll keep you safe biggrin

jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Brenn, honestly, it's media hype. Don't let it put you off visiting the UK.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


BrennPLATINUM Member
Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
3,286 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
UCOF: Yaaaay! biggrin



 Written by :jo_rhymes



Brenn, honestly, it's media hype. Don't let it put you off visiting the UK.





Thanks hug I needed to hear that from a local if that makes sense smile

ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy


faith enfireBRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA


Posted:
It's just like the news here. You'd think your not safe anywhere in Milwaukee. I've been down some of awful streets in the middle of the night...

If little old me will be fine, I'm sure the UK is fine. Simply be aware of your surroundings and when all else fails, poi is a great confidence booster

Media loves stuff like this. Because then you are afraid and then you watch more news to find out what's next

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed


Fire_MooseSILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA


Posted:
And if you watch more news, you watch more commercials!!


My knowledge of UK violence is pretty much Clockwork Orange and Green Street Hooligans. Seems pretty bad, I suppose if I do go there though, I'd be going for PLAY and i doubt there is much violence at THAT hippy fest smile

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!


willworkforfoodjnrSILVER Member
Hunting robot foxes
1,046 posts
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England (UK)


Posted:
Oh I dunno Poje - it was almost a full on riot at one point.

Lesson learned hopefully - if you're going to have a hugging workshop make sure you're ready for 100 angry hippies when you tell em the free loves over!

Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!


LazyAngelGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK


Posted:
nah... it was more like, 'go and spread the love my smelly beauties! Mwahahahahaha'
*cue random hug invasions of other workshops*
ubbangel

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi


BansheeCatBRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada


Posted:
Canada has had a lot of knifeings and shootings amongst large groups of youth reported lately too! What's going on?! It is world wide! Guess no where is safe! Head for the woods!!!

* wait a minute. I am in the already in the woods. Is it safe here? wink*

Seriously, I think there is probably not as much increase in violence as the media and govt would lead us to believe. People are easier to control when afraid, and media makes money of violence and fear.

On the other hand, it would not surprise me if there was more violence... Here is why:

I dont think a lot of the so called youth have been exposed to environments where they were encouraged to use their brains and imagination to keep themselves amused and productive. Yet they have been exposed to a lot of TV and video games where violence is depicted as entertainment. So, they are entertaining themselves ! Not surprising.

Meth is a drug also used a lot by "youth" in cities these days, was not around so much before. It has been suggested as an influence in some of the knife fight cases here. It is a very dangerous substance, and appears to increase irrational aggressive behaviour. Yukky stuff, but super cheap and readily available. Apparently massive amounts of restless bored youth are using it.

Head for the woods!!!!

( while you are there, drop by for a hug, and a visit while we barracade the cabin, drink herbal tea and bemoan the unhappy state of the dangerous youngun's today)

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."


GothFrogetteBRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom


Posted:
it should not put off anyone coming to visit, there are more fantastic people and places than bad it is just that they do not get on the news

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows


BirgitBRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)


Posted:
I've lived in Canada for 3 months. In 1995. Knife crime was all over the newspapers on a weekly basis if not more then already... I still liked it. (Canada, not knife crime)

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


GeoffonTour04SILVER Member
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom


Posted:
As far as the UK goes, too many people not enough space, not enough to do.



If there's nothing to do at home, and nowhere else to go but hanging round on the estate with your mates, things quickly turn tribal, lord of the flies style. Also it only takes 10 - 20 people out of a community of hundreds to make an area 'dodgy'. Add to that violence on TV, computer games etc* and you have kids tearing each other apart on the streets.



Edit: This can't help either





*Disclaimer - I love violent films & games and I'm not violent in the slightest, same goes for most of the people I know -but- some people really are that impressionable.
EDITED_BY: GeoffonTour04 (1212173687)

Fine_Rabid_DogInternet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...


Posted:
Isn't this merely a by-product of our disgusting "if it bleeds it leads" policy?



I mean... seriously?



Yes, the murders and whatnot (not just brushing this aside as nothing; it is a tragedy... but I'm in a rush) are horrible. But its not happening every day.



I agree with Joe... its true, but blown way out of proportion.



I mean... c'mon. British "gangs" are laughable wink



NSFW tongue



EDITED_BY: Fine_Rabid_Dog (1212241918)

The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."


LurchBRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA


Posted:
Might wanna put a little NSFW warning on that video for language there Rabid wink

I'd have to agree though, kinda how FireTom thinks the US is the wild west with duels at high noon everyday at the town square tongue

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
There is little to put your tongue out, Lurch wink

Imagine these kids would have (more) access to firearms. Knives and bats are bad enough I reckon. Legally available firearms increase the availability of illegally available firearms...

In a time where youth is highly infected with a lack of perspective and role models, highly susceptible to violence and questionable values (not the least promoted by US media) the availability of handguns would be counter productive.

Not sure whether the media is blowing it out of proportion. It's certainly not getting better and what freaks me out the most are kids who gangrape or kill other kids, record it with their cellphones and send it to their mates... kind of eek

I clearly remember my time in school and my scare of being a victim to violence (which I frequently have been). Things didn't get better really - definitely the perspective of youths didn't improve. Hooliganism had swept to mainland Europe more than two decades ago. Funny enough I met a bloke who has been one of the most violent and infamous hooligans in my town after 25 years. I couldn't recognize him, as he had the sweetest and most peaceful attitude I came across in a long time.

I don't look at the US having shootouts everyday at the town square, never did - hopefully never have to. Keep your provocation please. Pick and mix the opinions presented (against yours in the gun thread) by a few people and then exclusively aim it at me is not serving your intelligence - does it? wink

Youth violence will increase the more they lack in perspective and ability to express their potential. We've not even remotely arrived in the "crazy times", I'm afraid...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Tom, yes these things are happening but they are rare. They make it onto the news because they are horrific.

Most kids today just want to hang out with their friends and not get into trouble.

Creating all this fear about them does not help anything.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


BansheeCatBRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada


Posted:
yeah,ditto! if you scare everyone about violence in the cities they will run away to the wilderness, and then it will get crowded out here. I want my space. settle down folk! wink

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."


PyroWillGOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom


Posted:
I agree with Jo, a lot of it is the media kicking up a panic, there have always been kids knifing and attacking each other. I agree lately it seems to be on the rise, but maybe thats because it's only been reported more lately.

I have to say also that (gulp)....in my day.... I would never have thought of doing half the crap kids get up to these days. I would like to say we went scrumping for apples and knocking on doors for kicks back in my day. Well the door knocking maybe wink

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian


LurchBRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA


Posted:
So knife attacks in the media is fear monger, but shootings are not? confused

The reason things like this are so "common", especially to specific areas, is because A: it works, and B: they get away with it.

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
I thought some of the problem would have had to do with lack of jobs due to industry going off shore to countries with cheap labour. Then I watched that umm chav rap video posted earlier. It reminded me of this article I read last week: Hip hop fuelling violence, UK star says:

“HIP HOP music is fuelling gun and knife crime in Britain, says music star Tricky. He says some parts of the United Kingdom are now worse than New York's notorious Bronx district.

"I love hip hop. But it has to take some responsibility for the gun culture we've got over here. We're getting super-violent," the Press Association reported Tricky, whose real name in Adrian Thaws, telling Uncut music magazine. "You can walk around the Bronx for days on end and nobody bothers you.

"In England, you can say the wrong thing in a pub and, before you know it, you've got a bottle over your head or a bullet in your brain. English people have got quicker tempers"

Tricky, 40, says modern fashion also has contributed to violence among young people.

"What have they got to get them through hard times? We had punk rock and ska and bands that made you feel you could do anything," said the musician, singer and producer.

"We were into clothes in a big way. Anything to take our minds off the stress. They don't have to think about getting dressed. They get the baseball cap and trainers on, that's all it is.

"But they've got nothing to take the pressure off. That's maybe why they are more violent than we were. That and the fact they have access to serious artillery.

"We used to throw stones at each other. Now they shoot bullets at each other. Hip hop has got a lot to do with that."

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


hamamelisBRONZE Member
nut.
756 posts
Location: Bouncing off the walls., England (UK)


Posted:
 Written by :Stone


"In England, you can say the wrong thing in a pub and, before you know it, you've got a bottle over your head or a bullet in your brain. English people have got quicker tempers"




We are talking about the same country that I live in here, right? The pubs I go to, you say the wrong thing, you can get some really nasty looks..

Yeah, there's fights, but- number of people I know that have been knifed during fights =0, number of people I know that have been shot =0; punched, yep, thrown in the canal, yep..
My brother lived in what is supposedly the most dangerous area of Britain (one of the Nottingham Suburbs) for 5 years, and *he* doesn't know anyone who's been knifed or shot either.

Okay- one of his mates did get shot with an air rifle once.. I'm not sure if that counts.

Most of the serious violent crime is within or between gangs (most of the less serious being between drunks). I'm not saying that's not a problem, it is, of course, but it's not as though people don't go out on the streets without a bulletproof vest on. You sort of have to go looking.

THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
The “quote” was from an article by Tricky, whose real name in Adrian Thaws.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


FireTomStargazer
6,650 posts

Posted:
So it's all a media hype? umm Getting ppl scared and paranoid to fuel more police? Or is it simply because it is what ppl (don't) want to hear about their country?

Really don't know. The statistics do not include minors >16 and the violence in this group is on the rise - not just in the UK. Some of the guys that are charged with the murder of Amar Aslam had been between 12 and 15 only.

Is it not fact that "the youth" (omg do I sound like a granddaddy?) is getting more violent and more ruthless in their crimes. Violence from adolescent teens is not new at all but the 'quality' of crimes seem to increase - am I wrong?

I see it all over Europe - not just in the UK. Gang rape, knivings, even teens that act as pimps to their classmates.

It's no reason to smirk, Lurch. Youth violence (to a certain degree in quality) has a higher tradition in the US. I've seen violent cartoons as a kid (Tom and Jerry ubblol ) seen violent movies and played violent PC games - so has my entire generation. Dunno why it's only recently that youth violence got so incredibly bizarre?

Just searching for a "teen pimp" umm

However. According to this website:

"Violence is a learned behavior. Children learn violent behaviors from their family and peers, as well as observe it in their neighborhoods and in the community at large. These behaviors are reinforced by what youth see on television, on the Internet, in video games, movies, music videos, and what they hear in their music.

When children are disciplined with severe corporal punishment or verbal abuse, or when they are physically or sexually abused, or when they witness such behavior in their home, it is not surprising that they behave violently toward others.

Research studies have shown that violent behavior can be decreased or even prevented if these risk factors are significantly reduced or eliminated:

* Being the victim of physical abuse and/or sexual abuse
* Exposure to violence in the home and/or community
* Exposure to violence in media (TV, movies, etc.)
* Use of drugs and/or alcohol
* Presence of firearms in home
* Combination of stressful family socioeconomic factors
(poverty, severe deprivation, marital breakup,
single parenting, unemployment, loss of support from
extended family)."

When looking at the current economical development in the UK and Europe, the socio-economical part is not likely to improve shortly, is it?
Exposure to violence in the community - well this is on the rise as it seems.
Exposure to violence in the media - this is unlikely to diminish, who nowadays is watching Winnie Poo as a 14 yr old?
Use of drugs and alcohol: Europe's alcohol abuse (and foremost that in the UK) is also unlikely to improve in the near future... beerchug
'Fortunately' the firearms-problem greatly remains one of the US... wink

Play more Poi weavesmiley may be a good advice/beginning ...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Hammelis, I agree, my brother lives in Southmead, Bristol. Yes it is rough.
I don't know one person who's been stabbed or shot. Not even heard of a friend of a friend that that has happened too.

Of course not all of it is media hype, but it's rare to hear of these things happening on your doorstep.

There are rough parts of Britain, granted, with territorial gangs. To think that that's commonplace though is delusional.

To spread fear over youth is to give them more power. There is no need for anyone to be intimidated by youngsters, or Britain!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


LurchBRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA


Posted:
 Written by : FT

It's no reason to smirk, Lurch. Youth violence (to a certain degree in quality) has a higher tradition in the US. I've seen violent cartoons as a kid (Tom and Jerry ) seen violent movies and played violent PC games - so has my entire generation. Dunno why it's only recently that youth violence got so incredibly bizarre?



Well not to be fair Tom I've been saying that the media has been influencing violence, and having a detrimental effect on our communities this whole time. You can't really rub that in my face.

Violence is not entirely a learned behavior, in the sense that it is learned from watching others. It can be "learned" in the sense that it is effective at getting what you want though. Especially as a child. The 'nanny' state that we live in today, with the overly PC society and huge push towards niceties does little to correct problem behaviors in children.

So you ask why there is so much more youth violence? I agree with you that it is at least partially due to the media in its current state. How many of these children have ever been taught that violence for violence sake is wrong? They don't have positive role models, and the media does little to help that.

As for the 'firearms' problem being a US thing, go back 50 years when you were given guns as a coming of age present when you'd turn 10. There were shooting clubs in school. Trucks would be parked in front of highschools with hunting rifles in them, yet there was far less extreme violence in the community. Guns have decreased, crime has increased. I'm not saying the guns prevented violence, merely that this overprotective culture we have breeds and encourages those with a predisposition for violent behavior to take control by not doing anything to nip it in the bud.

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals


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