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Forums > Social Discussion > Youth violence in the UK - what the $*! is happening?

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:"Interesting" news coming from the UK...

Adults in scare of youths, kids scraed of each other only leaving their homes armed. Teens threatened with disfiguration of death when they cross invisibles lines in their neighbourhood or support the 'wrong' soccer club.

Knife attacks on the rise, one case of teen murder after the other. Robert Knox killed, Amar Aslam killed, two fathers killed in Bradford and Bristol, one dragged out of his car and stabbed, the other one stabbed as he tried to mediate a fight outside a pub.

Another pub in Bromley attacked by 15 men with knives and screwdrivers, injuring patrons - "the pub looked like a slaughterhouse". At the station in East Ham, police spotted a stabbed 19 year old, two 17 year old in the north of London suffered got shot, one died and another is still in grievous condition.

Hello from the UK umm

Daily Telegraph talking about similarities to the "lost generation": The lost generation of today is not dying in the trench at the Somme, but on Britains streets. They are not dying for their country, they don't even die for their iPods, they die because they are on the side of the wrong gang or the wrong side of the street.

Statistics claim that the cases of violence declined, but they don't even take the 'under-16-yr-olds' into account.

What's happening, UK?

umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:I can relate to this, i've been threatened a lot by random chavs on the street, most of the time it's turned out ok though. I have no idea why my generation is turning into this, but it's starting to scare me.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Yeah - the UK has turned to crap.

frown


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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:I think there is truth in this, I also thing it is just the mass media causing moral panic.

Yes there are alot of unsavoury characters about, my friend (named BIG DAVE as he is 6'5 and 2' wide!) got beaten up last year on his way home. I would have thought it impossible to beat Big Dave up, but a few people tried it.

I don't like how the media are causing this scaremongering. Love, not Fear people! meditate


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Yarp - bit off both really...

It's partly just a current "hot topic" and the media's all over it - which skews it's prevelance quite a bit, and also adds to the scaremongering.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:i've found that the threats, people shouting at you in the street, violence in schools etc has not changed apart from two things, 1, it used to be glass bottles, base ball bats,iron bars,bricks etc and 2, the media coverage.

I feel so much compasion for the "youth of today" the kids i see, even if they are hanging out in groups of 20+ look so lost, all trying to fit into an unstable and changing society. personaly i think it is the adults in the kids lives that need to be looked at in order to break the chain of behaviour.


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:I don't even know if I should comment in here :P

I think Frogette is right, the adults are the ones that need to step up in order to fix a problem with the youth. But that's part of what makes these things so difficult to deal with, the actual cause of the problem may go back for generations. It's not a simple fix.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Brenn
PLATINUM Member since Jun 2004

Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 3286
Posted:Hmm... just what i needed to hear before I travel there frown

hug


ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:I don't know what's happening, or why. I wish I did. What I do know is if you search for information for knife crime involving youth last year, the year before etc., you'll see that it's not a new thing, nor is it confined to London.

I think it's worth bearing in mind that traditionally Conservative media outlets like the Telegraph having a lot more to say about knife crime in London since their Tory mayoral candidate launched his campaign earlier this year may not be a complete coincidence. Violent crime is actually apparently falling, but Boris Johnson is happy to say it's rising, not to mention get away with it, to justify lack of privacy, less accountability for the police and all the usual you'd expect to find in Conservative policy.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Brenn - don't worry - We'll keep you safe biggrin

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Brenn, honestly, it's media hype. Don't let it put you off visiting the UK.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Brenn
PLATINUM Member since Jun 2004

Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 3286
Posted:UCOF: Yaaaay! biggrin



 Written by :jo_rhymes



Brenn, honestly, it's media hype. Don't let it put you off visiting the UK.





Thanks hug I needed to hear that from a local if that makes sense smile


ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:It's just like the news here. You'd think your not safe anywhere in Milwaukee. I've been down some of awful streets in the middle of the night...

If little old me will be fine, I'm sure the UK is fine. Simply be aware of your surroundings and when all else fails, poi is a great confidence booster

Media loves stuff like this. Because then you are afraid and then you watch more news to find out what's next


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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87wt2gxq7


87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 1502
Posted: Written by :Spanner

all the usual you'd expect to find in Conservative policy.



They....they have policies now?!


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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:And if you watch more news, you watch more commercials!!


My knowledge of UK violence is pretty much Clockwork Orange and Green Street Hooligans. Seems pretty bad, I suppose if I do go there though, I'd be going for PLAY and i doubt there is much violence at THAT hippy fest smile


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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willworkforfoodjnr
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

willworkforfoodjnr

Hunting robot foxes
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Total posts: 1046
Posted:Oh I dunno Poje - it was almost a full on riot at one point.

Lesson learned hopefully - if you're going to have a hugging workshop make sure you're ready for 100 angry hippies when you tell em the free loves over!


Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!

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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:nah... it was more like, 'go and spread the love my smelly beauties! Mwahahahahaha'
*cue random hug invasions of other workshops*
ubbangel


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Canada has had a lot of knifeings and shootings amongst large groups of youth reported lately too! What's going on?! It is world wide! Guess no where is safe! Head for the woods!!!

* wait a minute. I am in the already in the woods. Is it safe here? wink*

Seriously, I think there is probably not as much increase in violence as the media and govt would lead us to believe. People are easier to control when afraid, and media makes money of violence and fear.

On the other hand, it would not surprise me if there was more violence... Here is why:

I dont think a lot of the so called youth have been exposed to environments where they were encouraged to use their brains and imagination to keep themselves amused and productive. Yet they have been exposed to a lot of TV and video games where violence is depicted as entertainment. So, they are entertaining themselves ! Not surprising.

Meth is a drug also used a lot by "youth" in cities these days, was not around so much before. It has been suggested as an influence in some of the knife fight cases here. It is a very dangerous substance, and appears to increase irrational aggressive behaviour. Yukky stuff, but super cheap and readily available. Apparently massive amounts of restless bored youth are using it.

Head for the woods!!!!

( while you are there, drop by for a hug, and a visit while we barracade the cabin, drink herbal tea and bemoan the unhappy state of the dangerous youngun's today)


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Oct 2004

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:it should not put off anyone coming to visit, there are more fantastic people and places than bad it is just that they do not get on the news

Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I've lived in Canada for 3 months. In 1995. Knife crime was all over the newspapers on a weekly basis if not more then already... I still liked it. (Canada, not knife crime)

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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GeoffonTour04
SILVER Member since Nov 2005

enthusiast
Location: Oxford

Total posts: 360
Posted:As far as the UK goes, too many people not enough space, not enough to do.



If there's nothing to do at home, and nowhere else to go but hanging round on the estate with your mates, things quickly turn tribal, lord of the flies style. Also it only takes 10 - 20 people out of a community of hundreds to make an area 'dodgy'. Add to that violence on TV, computer games etc* and you have kids tearing each other apart on the streets.



Edit: This can't help either





*Disclaimer - I love violent films & games and I'm not violent in the slightest, same goes for most of the people I know -but- some people really are that impressionable.

EDITED_BY: GeoffonTour04 (1212173687)


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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:Isn't this merely a by-product of our disgusting "if it bleeds it leads" policy?



I mean... seriously?



Yes, the murders and whatnot (not just brushing this aside as nothing; it is a tragedy... but I'm in a rush) are horrible. But its not happening every day.



I agree with Joe... its true, but blown way out of proportion.



I mean... c'mon. British "gangs" are laughable wink



NSFW tongue



EDITED_BY: Fine_Rabid_Dog (1212241918)


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:Might wanna put a little NSFW warning on that video for language there Rabid wink

I'd have to agree though, kinda how FireTom thinks the US is the wild west with duels at high noon everyday at the town square tongue


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:There is little to put your tongue out, Lurch wink

Imagine these kids would have (more) access to firearms. Knives and bats are bad enough I reckon. Legally available firearms increase the availability of illegally available firearms...

In a time where youth is highly infected with a lack of perspective and role models, highly susceptible to violence and questionable values (not the least promoted by US media) the availability of handguns would be counter productive.

Not sure whether the media is blowing it out of proportion. It's certainly not getting better and what freaks me out the most are kids who gangrape or kill other kids, record it with their cellphones and send it to their mates... kind of eek

I clearly remember my time in school and my scare of being a victim to violence (which I frequently have been). Things didn't get better really - definitely the perspective of youths didn't improve. Hooliganism had swept to mainland Europe more than two decades ago. Funny enough I met a bloke who has been one of the most violent and infamous hooligans in my town after 25 years. I couldn't recognize him, as he had the sweetest and most peaceful attitude I came across in a long time.

I don't look at the US having shootouts everyday at the town square, never did - hopefully never have to. Keep your provocation please. Pick and mix the opinions presented (against yours in the gun thread) by a few people and then exclusively aim it at me is not serving your intelligence - does it? wink

Youth violence will increase the more they lack in perspective and ability to express their potential. We've not even remotely arrived in the "crazy times", I'm afraid...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Its just the same as violence anywhere, people get pissed off and mess other people up, or they do it to seem 'hard' to their mates, or theyre drunk, or they are just nutters who do it for fun. The only difference is it gets publicised more here, theres daily scare stories, but in reality its nonsense, the UK isnt a dangerous place compared to a lot of the rest of the world. As for the so called rise in knife crime, I see that as nonsense aswell, crime is a pretty random thing and due to this nature I dont think statistics about it can really prove anything for good or bad. There are people who get a raw deal in life everywhere, some of these people will just get on with things and others want to lash out, geography is irrelevent. - SS
EDITED_BY: Rellizate (1212326058)


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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Tom, yes these things are happening but they are rare. They make it onto the news because they are horrific.

Most kids today just want to hang out with their friends and not get into trouble.

Creating all this fear about them does not help anything.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:yeah,ditto! if you scare everyone about violence in the cities they will run away to the wilderness, and then it will get crowded out here. I want my space. settle down folk! wink

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:I agree with Jo, a lot of it is the media kicking up a panic, there have always been kids knifing and attacking each other. I agree lately it seems to be on the rise, but maybe thats because it's only been reported more lately.

I have to say also that (gulp)....in my day.... I would never have thought of doing half the crap kids get up to these days. I would like to say we went scrumping for apples and knocking on doors for kicks back in my day. Well the door knocking maybe wink


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:So knife attacks in the media is fear monger, but shootings are not? confused

The reason things like this are so "common", especially to specific areas, is because A: it works, and B: they get away with it.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I thought some of the problem would have had to do with lack of jobs due to industry going off shore to countries with cheap labour. Then I watched that umm chav rap video posted earlier. It reminded me of this article I read last week: Hip hop fuelling violence, UK star says:

HIP HOP music is fuelling gun and knife crime in Britain, says music star Tricky. He says some parts of the United Kingdom are now worse than New York's notorious Bronx district.

"I love hip hop. But it has to take some responsibility for the gun culture we've got over here. We're getting super-violent," the Press Association reported Tricky, whose real name in Adrian Thaws, telling Uncut music magazine. "You can walk around the Bronx for days on end and nobody bothers you.

"In England, you can say the wrong thing in a pub and, before you know it, you've got a bottle over your head or a bullet in your brain. English people have got quicker tempers"

Tricky, 40, says modern fashion also has contributed to violence among young people.

"What have they got to get them through hard times? We had punk rock and ska and bands that made you feel you could do anything," said the musician, singer and producer.

"We were into clothes in a big way. Anything to take our minds off the stress. They don't have to think about getting dressed. They get the baseball cap and trainers on, that's all it is.

"But they've got nothing to take the pressure off. That's maybe why they are more violent than we were. That and the fact they have access to serious artillery.

"We used to throw stones at each other. Now they shoot bullets at each other. Hip hop has got a lot to do with that."


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted: Written by :Stone


"In England, you can say the wrong thing in a pub and, before you know it, you've got a bottle over your head or a bullet in your brain. English people have got quicker tempers"




We are talking about the same country that I live in here, right? The pubs I go to, you say the wrong thing, you can get some really nasty looks..

Yeah, there's fights, but- number of people I know that have been knifed during fights =0, number of people I know that have been shot =0; punched, yep, thrown in the canal, yep..
My brother lived in what is supposedly the most dangerous area of Britain (one of the Nottingham Suburbs) for 5 years, and *he* doesn't know anyone who's been knifed or shot either.

Okay- one of his mates did get shot with an air rifle once.. I'm not sure if that counts.

Most of the serious violent crime is within or between gangs (most of the less serious being between drunks). I'm not saying that's not a problem, it is, of course, but it's not as though people don't go out on the streets without a bulletproof vest on. You sort of have to go looking.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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