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Forums > Social Discussion > Rising petrol prices - turning to cycling

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:I honestly never thought that I would ever say this.

But, I am going to become.... a cyclist.

After all the years of hating getting stuck behind people on bikes, and of them scaring me by suddenly pulling out in front of me etc. I am going to join their ranks.

Petrol is becoming so expensive, that I can't afford to save up for travelling, and pay for petrol to get me to work. (At the time of writing, its on average 1.13/litre eek) So I'm going over to the dark side. And I'm actually, really quite excited about it.

But I was wondering, how long on average, would it take to cycle the 10miles aprox to work? It takes me about 50 minutes to drive (all in heavy traffic). Does anyone have any handy hints/tips/links to cycle route planners etc. Is it too big a distance to cycle?

I need to find somewhere to store my bike, and I might not be allowed into work wearing cycling gear, even if I change as soon as I get in. That bit worries me.

Has anyone else done this? I know its not exactly a new concept for many out there, but I was wondering how many other people are going to get converted due to the cost of petrol. Is that the main motivation factor for you?

The exercise benifits are not really that important to me, as I already do a hell of a lot of dancing etc, but I do worry as to whether I'm going to be fit enough for doing it, I have very low stamina when it comes to cycling and running! The fact its green is a big bonus for me, but again, its not really a motivational factor in my decision.

Just interested. ubbrollsmile


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by : OWD


To car drivers, if that happened to them, the other guys going to lose his door and, hopefully, their no-claims bonus- to a cyclist, it's serious injury or death.




I think that's a great point. I don't think enough drivers realise just how vulnerable cyclists are.

Along similar lines, there was so bad press a few months back because a cyclist seriously injured a pedestrian, and naturally that meant that cyclists were evil and needed to be stopped. But did people turn around to put it into perspective about how many motorists seriously injure people compared to how many cyclists do? Not to mention how many cyclists are seriously injured by motorists?
Of course that was never mentioned!


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:Some areas have a really bad attitude here towards cycling- and our bike lanes can be spectactularly bad too- there's a road not far from where I live where they've just painted them on the side of the road, where it's actually impossible for two cars to pass and stay out of the 'cycle lanes' as the road's so narrow.

We also have ones which just end halfway down a road, with a fence on one side, and a sudden narrowing of the road- I've actually been on a bus where the driver hit a cyclist on that one, and didn't even stop..

The bus then got stuck in traffic a few hundred metres further up, and the cyclist (who luckily wasn't really hurt, just very shocked) came up and started banging on the door- the bus driver, when he finally opened up, claimed he 'hadn't noticed he'd hit anyone' despite the fact he knocked the guy off with the mirror on the front, and I heard the collision right at the back of the bus..

When we got home, my ex phoned up the bus company to complain- they first off told us they couldn't do anything without having a ticket bought on that bus to ID the driver- then when we produced that, they then claimed they couldn't do anything unless the cyclist themselves called to complain.

How exactly is a cyclist who got hit by a bus supposed to get a ticket??

I just walk everywhere here.. I did get a bike, but was too scared to ride it on our roads.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:OWD: oh I didn't know that was ok... To clarify the example I was thinking of, it was less defensive cycling and more about the cyclists chatting to each other as they cycle along.

And a warning about lorries at lights:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1695668.ece


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Would your bike fit into your or onto your car? If it will for the first few times try driving half way and then cycle the rest and slowly drop the distance you drive each day and cycle further. That way you build up slowly.

As for the cycle helmet... always wear one. My sister was nearly killed a few years ago when a car hit her at a junction. She wasn't wearing a helmet and she hit the road head first. She got lucky and survived, but it really isn't worth the risk.She always wears one now.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Guy, that article is scary!

 Written by : the article


It seems that you need to be aggressive and assertive to survive as a cyclist



I'd definitely agree with that.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Wirewood
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Wirewood

journeyman
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 90
Posted:Just to clarify one thing for cyclists in Perth - you can ride 2 abreast on the road (why you would want to I'm not sure of) but NOT on cycleways (aka PSPs=Princaple Shared Pathways). The number of near-misses I've had with arrogant cyclists riding 2 abreast on these pathways is mind-boggling (most of them are "training" - training to be f---wits if you ask me). Keep left (in Australia & NZ at least) and we'll all be healthy and happy cyclists.

Ok, so this is a pet peeve for me but head-on accidents between cyclists has left many people badly injured (and in 1 case I know of paralysed for life) and it's often due to people riding on the wrong side of the PSP due to being 2 abreast.

Ok, rant over, back to happy thoughts now...


"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :LazyAngel


OWD: oh I didn't know that was ok... To clarify the example I was thinking of, it was less defensive cycling and more about the cyclists chatting to each other as they cycle along.





A lot of people don't know it's OK, including many car drivers who really should, as it's clearly stated in the Highway Code book.

Another misconception car drivers often have, is that, if there is a cycle lane available, cyclists are obliged to use it.

Cylists are not obliged to use cycle lanes and, in the case of experienced cyclists, they will specifically avoid them in certain circumstances, as, to use them, would increase the risk of injury.

Many are placed on road edges with serious potholing or rubbish in the gutter.

Also, as previously mentioned, in some circumstances it is dangerous to be cycling at the edge of the road, cos many car drivers will try to squeeze by when space is inadequate.

(Passing cars should give at least as much space to a bicycle as they would a car- this is also stated clearly in the Highway Code, which also points out to drivers that cyclists may have to swerve suddenly to avoid bad road conditions).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:One reason cycling groups oppose compulsory helmet laws is that they believe compulsory helmet laws make cycling more dangerous.

Not that wearing a helmet increases danger for the user of course, there are many circumstances where helmets can cut injury severity.

But, on the big picture, they argue that the most effective factor in cycling safety, is that there is a big proportion of cyclists on the road- it's known that this increases safety, car drivers become more aware of cycling, get more used to altering their driving around them and understand more about the issues- thus the accidents caused by car driver mistakes are lower.

The more cyclists are on the road, the more the injury rate goes down.

In areas where compulsory helmet laws are brought in, generally less people cycle and the injury rate goes up.

So, the opposition isn't towards helmets, it's towards compulsory helmet wear.

As I mentioned earlier, though I oppose compulsory helmet wear, I always wear one when out on the unicycle, whether I'm riding on the road or not.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I'd agree with you on the potholes/drains thing. Remembering that I did my years of cycling in London, not Oz.. the traffic was heavy but tended to be slower than here. The roads were more dangerous than the cars!

And getting well away from lorries isn't aggressive.. it's very defensive! The best place for cyclists is as far from cars/trucks as they can get. And vice versa.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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roarfire
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside

Total posts: 2676
Posted:With petrol rising as it is...I filled up at AUD$1.59 a litre last week, prices got up as high as $1.63 with predictions it will hit the $1.70 mark in the near future. I also want convert to cycling. The extent to which I ride my bike is only to tennis every Monday evening which is about 1.5k away so it's just a short ride. I want to get into it more but I need to get the confidence, and the fitness. Going from someone who drives everywhere to a cyclist is pretty daunting for me, because you are so exposed, and it is highly dangerous in the CBD.



Another downside is that I live in a ridiculously hilly area, so while it's great riding down to tennis, it is not pleasant having to walk your bike the majority of the way back up!


.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Roarfire I used to feel the same way about hills. Getting off and pushing up the hills was my preferred method, until it became obvious, living in Wales as I do, that I would take forever to get where I want to go. Once you build up your muscle power, hills don't seem so daunting and you ride up them without really noticing them so much. Well that is except for the ones that are so steep they give you vertigo just to walk up them let alone peddle.

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I was talking to a colleague at work today whose son has brain damage from being hit by a truck while cycling on a straight, clear road with plenty of room. The truck driver said that he 'swerved' in front of the truck.. examination of the road conditions showed a combination of gravel and an oily puddle at the side of the road. Avoiding a puddle, a skid... stuffed. cycling is great... but no matter how many clever turns or care you take... you are terribly vulnerable. Take more than care! Get insurance.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:We do have free med care over here y'know, and insurance won't stop you from having an accident..

Unless you meant the 'my little friend' sort of 'insurance' which probably would make car drivers take you a little more seriously wink


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Well, my Dad brought my bike over today, and I gave it a test ride, and I made it a whole, wait for it, 2.5 miles. And was exhausted by it! Mmmm... the 9 miles to work is looking a very long way away at the moment!

I was plesantly suprised by how much room everyone gave me. (or maybe I just looked like I was about to fall off, which is probably about right!)

The only thing I realised is, I have no idea how to turn right at traffic lights. If the car next to you is either going straight on or right and you don't know, and the cycle lane is obviously on the left side, then what do you do? (all from the perspective of driving on the left).

Help please! I very nearly caused an accident because of this redface I'm finding it hard to get into the mindset of being a cyclist. I feel too safe at the moment.

P.S., Yes I have a helmet thanks, don't worry.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:Hey holly,

I often cycle to work, which is 13 miles, so i do a 26 mile round trip. It takes about 50-55 mins tog et there, I go about 16-17mph an hour average.

My tips would be get yourself a speedometer, also make sure your bike has a water bottle attachment so you can keep hydrated!!

And naturally make sure you wear a helmet!!

It sounds like it will actually be quicker for you to cycle than drive.


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:I didnt notice the second page!!

About your question about turning right start to signal your intention to turn right about 50 metres or so before the actual turn, and HOPEFULLY the driver behind you should give way, I usually signal and when I have a bit of a gap I edge out, and people are forced to slow down. You have rights you know.

Slowly edge out so you are more towards the middle of the lane and that should make your intentions clear. Although always air on the side of caution, you never know what idiots are behind the wheel!


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by :pricklyleaf


The only thing I realised is, I have no idea how to turn right at traffic lights. If the car next to you is either going straight on or right and you don't know, and the cycle lane is obviously on the left side, then what do you do? (all from the perspective of driving on the left).



If you're not confident with right hand turns yet, give the hook turn a try until you get more comfortable on the bike.

Plus the car should be indicating if it's turning right, so if it's not and it turns right it's 100% in the wrong (I'm assuming it's illegal to turn without indicating, especially right in the UK as well as here)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:LazyAngel, thats a great article about lorries at traffic lights, especially the bit about more than half the fatal crashes involved lorries turning left. As they say, passing on the left side is the suicide.

I often wonder if any of the people who criticize car drivers have ever actually done much driving. Because of all the road users out there, cyclists seem to be the ones that stick out the most because they totally lack road craft. By road craft I mean learning to read the road and traffic conditions, instead of relying on attitude and barreling along with little heed for other road users.

 Written by Rouge

Why would a driver need to brake in the middle of an intersection and get pranged in the side if a cyclist was doing a hook turn?



Because the cyclist decided to continue their hook turn against a red light. Ill also add that on the road, it is not often that one party is absolutely 100% right or wrong in an accident.

 Written by OWD

Of course they wouldn't ride like that all the time- annoying car drivers unnecessarily is counter-productive and just inflames the car/bike conflict, but, in certain situations, it is definitly the right thing to do.



Good point OWD, blocking lanes during peak hour, for example, is really counter productive and very dangerous for cyclists.

Anyhow, Im wondering how do you stop a unicycle? Im thinking many probably have fixed wheels and no brakes. And if they have brakes, then hitting the brakes suddenly in an emergency stopping situation would likely see the rider going end over.

Im also wondering how many cyclists have read the Highway Code. Because cyclists dont have to pass a riding test or have a licence to ride a cycle on the road. Cycles arent registered and riders dont pay registration or road tax, or have any insurance.


 Written by Roarfire

Another downside is that I live in a ridiculously hilly area, so while it's great riding down to tennis, it is not pleasant having to walk your bike the majority of the way back up!



Roarfire, has your bike got appropriate gears for a hilly area? Gears can make a real difference on the hills.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by :Stone


 Written by Rouge

Why would a driver need to brake in the middle of an intersection and get pranged in the side if a cyclist was doing a hook turn?



Because the cyclist decided to continue their hook turn against a red light. Ill also add that on the road, it is not often that one party is absolutely 100% right or wrong in an accident.




I like how there was automatically an assumption that the cyclist was going to do an illegal thing and turn against the red light. Do people assume that a car will turn against a red light? So why would they just assume that a cyclist would?

 Written by : stone


Because of all the road users out there, cyclists seem to be the ones that stick out the most because they totally lack road craft.



Again, an assumption that cyclists are in the wrong. There are bad drivers out there as well. Probably in similar percentages but because they're the majority they dictate the attitudes and therefore the attitude that cyclists are in the wrong.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted: Written by :Stone



Because of all the road users out there, cyclists seem to be the ones that stick out the most because they totally lack road craft. By road craft I mean learning to read the road and traffic conditions, instead of relying on attitude and barreling along with little heed for other road users.







{offensive response removed}



Some of us on bi/tri/recumbent cycles display considerably more road sense than anyone in a tin box. We have to. Our lives depend upon it. We don't have crumple zones and airbags and an unrealistic expectation of what our brakes are capable of.





Certainly ther are (increasingly, it saddens me to say) cyclists with no regard for the rules of the road (or pavement/sidewalk) who run red lights, who wear all black and have no lights after dark, who ride in ipod land, and I assume that it is those to whom you refer.



It is exactly that attitude which you have just displayed that has me, a cyclist, venting spleen. Whenever I see a human powered vehicle who's rider disregards the rules of the road, I will pass loud comment as I pass them (being a strong cyclist gets you there faster than running red lights does). Every time a driver sees a cyclist riding badly, they remember it, and it lowers their opinion of cyclists. Thus, every time a cyclist does something stupid/illegal, it makes my life as a cyclist more precarious, even though I am ALWAYS riding within the rules of the road, because the attitude of car drivers toward cyclists started out low enough, and then got lower when they saw that red light ignored/didn't see the idiot with no lights after dark/had to brake suddenly for the random across-traffic turn. Guilty by association because, as you have implied, we are all the same.

EDITED_BY: PinkNigel (1212786267)


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted: Written by Rouge

I like how there was automatically an assumption that the cyclist was going to do an illegal thing and turn against the red light. Do people assume that a car will turn against a red light? So why would they just assume that a cyclist would?





Its an observation that cyclists dont like stopping for red lights; it slows the momentum. That was how that pedestrian was killed on Beach road. Also, when stopped at traffic lights cyclists also seem to jump the gun, and are often half way across the intersection before the light goes green. As for cars, watch for car drivers who continue to cross the intersection on amber and then red lights.



 Written by stone

Because of all the road users out there, cyclists seem to be the ones that stick out the most because they totally lack road craft.



 Written by Rouge

..Again, an assumption that cyclists are in the wrong. There are bad drivers out there as well. Probably in similar percentages but because they're the majority they dictate the attitudes and therefore the attitude that cyclists are in the wrong.







No not wrong. Its just that many cyclists seem to lack road craft, or experience if you like. Which is not surprising as many cyclists have no instructions in road use or road rules before they take to the road. On the other hand, car drivers spend time learning to drive under instructors, and have to pass a driving test before they can use the road.



 Written by PinkNigel

..........





Thanks, thats the typical attitude I see displayed by many cyclists on the road. An attitude, that contributes to the conflict.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1213098572)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Yet another thing non-cyclists don't realise - we have momentum too and therefore stopping distance too! We can't just plant our brakes either. We don't even have seatbelts to prevent us becoming airborne like cars do. We have to utilise amber lights as well or we'll be off our bike in the middle of the road because we planted our brakes at the last second and because we didn't have a seatbelt we'll fly.

The man who was killed on Beach Road walked out in the middle of a peleton. Yes, the peleton was in the wrong for not stopping at a red light, but if you see a car that's not going to stop at a red light do you walk out infront of that? Course you don't! And the reason the man didn't stop wasn't because it would slow his momentum, but because if he had stopped there would have been a pile-up of 50ish cyclists in the middle of the road. Just like when you're in a car and you brake suddenly, the cars behind you pile up.

Does anyone stop to think how many CARS kill people each year compared to cyclists? Or how many CARS have killed people since the accident on Beach Road? So why do they keep bringing up Beach Road? Anti-cyclist sentiment.

 Written by : Stone


Thanks, thats the typical attitude I see displayed by many cyclists on the road. An attitude, that contributes to the conflict.


Once again, it was the cyclist at fault, not the comments from yourself generalising all cyclists to be bad.
We stick together. We have to, because no-one else will. The government learnt that the hard way in January this year.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Rouge, for a start its a big assumption on your part that we are all non-cyclists, and dont appreciate your concerns. Its just the the .... attitude " against motorists, that has already been expressed here, that I object to. Thats where the anti-cyclist sentiment comes from.



 Written by Rouge

Yet another thing non-cyclists don't realise - we have momentum too and therefore stopping distance too! We can't just plant our brakes either. We don't even have seatbelts to prevent us becoming airborne like cars do. We have to utilise amber lights as well or we'll be off our bike in the middle of the road because we planted our brakes at the last second and because we didn't have a seatbelt we'll fly.





You dont have to go against the lights to turn safely. Part of the problem seems to be experience and skill level. Perhaps some braking instructions will help solve that problem. Ive done advanced riding courses and suggest other cyclists could do a course, or check out something like these Skill-up video clips.



The elderly pedestrian who was killed on Beach Road was crossing with a green light. He had signalled his intention to cross the road as the cyclists approached, but he was struck down and received serious head injuries. It is not an excuse to say that just because 50 to 100 cyclists are racing on the Hells Ride that they couldnt stop for a red light. There are road rules, and they apply to cyclists as much as any other road users.



People keep bringing up the Hells Ride incident because the cyclists were out of control.



 Written by Stone

Thanks, thats the typical attitude I see displayed by many cyclists on the road. An attitude, that contributes to the conflict.



 Written by Rouge

Once again, it was the cyclist at fault, not the comments from yourself generalising all cyclists to be bad.







Hey, Im not the one going on to public roads with a bad attitude towards other road users. Its really up to you. If cyclists continue with this bad attitude towards motorists then there will always be conflict. Suggest cyclists leave the bad attitude at home before riding on the road.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1213098521)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by : stone

Suggest cyclists leave the bad attitude at home before riding on the road.



And I suggest drivers do the same.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Good lord, how did this get adversarial!



There are attitudinal idiots in all sorts of conveyances.



The questions Prickyleaf are asking are about how she can get to be a fairly serious cyclist quickly... serious meaning longish distance, all weather, city conditions and safe. And in a fit state to work afterwards. Slagging off car drivers.. apart from pointing out the obvious fact that many of them are not-cycle conscious and often can't see cycles even if they are (due to lack of lights/ visibiity vest/coming into blind spots etc) doesn't help at all.



This Hell's Ride thing sounds strange though. Not relevant to the average cyclist but....how come they were racing on public roads?



Ah OK. edit... googled... I hadn;t heard about it up here, though I gather it was pretty big deal in Melbs. Crikey. I didn't know there were bicycle hoons!


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted: Written by :Stone



Hey, Im not the one going on to public roads with the {offensive bit taken out}attitude towards other road users.





And neither am I. Read the post again, that was for saying that all cyclists are the same. I am not. I obey the rules of the road, and have huge objections to cyclists who don't as they endanger me by association. Which is exactly how your post reads, you generalise about all cyclists based on the actions of not all of us.

EDITED_BY: PinkNigel (1212786942)


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :newgabe


Good lord, how did this get adversarial!





 Written by :PinkNigel


 Written by :Stone


Because of all the road users out there, cyclists seem to be the ones that stick out the most because they totally lack road craft. By road craft I mean learning to read the road and traffic conditions, instead of relying on “attitude” and barreling along with little heed for other road users.




Well f*** you very much.




That's the point at which it got adversarial and, not surprisingly.

I have of course reported it to the mods and, as usual, am the first one to do so, despite the fact that language like that clearly adds nothing to the discussion other than leading it into a flame war.

The car/bike thing crops up on many forums and, I've yet to see one that didn't get flamey.

The reason I've reported that comment to the mods is cos I can see this thread developing into the typical war in which, 5 pages down the line when it's totally out-of-control, Stones going to end up getting half the blame- as far as I'm concerned the root of this is the 'Well f*** you very much' comment, the only purpose of which is to provoke a response.

IMO, an apology would be appropriate.

If people do fancy a flame war on this issue, then simply type 'cars' and 'bikes' into a search engine and visit one of the many other boards where this issue has been 'discussed' in a totally unproductive and angry fashion- there's no need to do it again on HOP.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:It is of course true that many motorists (not all, some car drivers are also cyclists themselves) generalise about cyclists being ignorant of road rules.

Equally though, there are probably a similar portion of cyclists who run red lights (indeed, it's a point of debate on cycling forums as to whether it's better to run reds) and put pedestrians at risk by riding (fast) on pavements and not stopping at pedestrian crossings.

It's human nature that,in any groups,a percentage will be selfish/idiotic.

A thing to remember is that, where cyclists are concerned, if a car driver messes up, the cyclist could easily be dead, whereas the driver gets just a scratched car.

And it's not just a possibility- hundreds of cyclists get killed, maimed or injured on the roads, in many cases due to no fault of their own.

Pedestrians killed/maimed by cyclists are reletively rare, but, IMO, in those cases, if it's due to the cyclist being stupid, they should be locked up.

------------------

My feelings are that, during driving tests and lesssons, a great deal of emphasis should be placed on the car driver understanding the issues where cyclists are concerned.

And on understanding the law where cyclists are concerned- it's amazing how,on online discussions, there are car drivers who believe that-

1. cyclists are obliged to be on cycle lanes if there's one available
2. that it's illegal for cyclists to ride 2 abreast

They're supposed to have passed their test and understood the highway code! It just shows the total disregard that some have for cyclists.

Secondly, there should be a funded initiative to get a small group of cyclists, bedecked with unobtrusive video cams, to ride around and, in every instance where a car does an illegal and endangering manouver that could lead to the cyclist being hurt, it's logged and the driver taken to court with the video evidence- and that includes instances of passing and not leaving enough space.

There should be legislation that all lorries/vans have sufficient mirrors that there is no 'blind-spot' excuse if they crush a cyclist on a left turn- if the cyclist is within the law and they get killed, then the lorry driver faces a murder charge.

Basically, do what is necessary to get all drivers to take this annual culling of cyclists a lot more seriously.

Similarly, every cyclist who shoots a pedestrian crossing or any action that puts others at risk, should be treated very harshly as well.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:OWD, good comments, but Im still wondering how you stop a unicycle? Im still thinking many probably have fixed wheels and no brakes. And if they have brakes, then hitting the brakes suddenly in an emergency stopping situation would likely see the rider going end over.

You make many comments about cyclists, but they all involve blaming the motorist. The motorist is always is always wrong. The motorist should do this or fit 20 mirrors, or something else.

Isnt about time cyclists took some responsibility for actually sharing the road with other road users.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by :Stone


You make many comments about cyclists, but they all involve blaming the motorist. The motorist is always is always wrong. The motorist should do this or fit 20 mirrors, or something else.

Isnt about time cyclists took some responsibility for actually sharing the road with other road users.



Yet you say it's the cyclists' fault? Fair's fair. So far the cyclists on here have acknowledged that there are cyclists out there who disobey the law. What more do you want us to say? Agree with you that we're all bad because of a minority we're being grouped into? Because to me that's what you're asking.

And how about the cars taking responsibility for sharing the road with other road users? I know the two times I was hit by a car they were in the wrong (unless a car driving in the bike lane and entering a round-about without looking was my fault?)


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Page: 1234

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