Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Cateye Butterfloop AKA Catterfloop
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Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
I'll probably get yelled at for search doings, one of the reasons I never post on HoP, but here goes anyway.....
Okay, I haven't been in many of the "tech" poi discussions or around any spinners for quite awhile so I don't know how far people have gone with things as far as innovations and such. Recently I've been trying to conquer the cateye anti-spin ellipse stuff and as always working on tangle stuff, don't know what it is but I just can't stop with the tangles. So after being obsessed with isolated hyperloops and anti-spin isolated HL's for some time and trying to figure out how to iso a butterfloop, which I still haven't. Something came to me yesterday while working on cateyes and thinking about how cool anti-spin iso. butterfloops would be......cateye butterfloops!!!!!!
SO!
I think I have a theory that what I am doing actually takes what is your typical "unit circle" and makes it so its a half size smaller. I think the smallest circle you can make with poi is actually half the poi length with these....
So if you are doing a butterfloop and you drive from the cross point of your poi you have to do circles with the poi head, your hands, and the center point at one quarter your "unit circle" diameter so the largest circle is one half your typical "unit circle" which would be with the non anti-spin poi head. Does that make sense? Am I wrong with this? I'm really not sure if that would mean that a true "unit circle" would be half poi length or not, thoughts?
Has this been discussed much? Anyone playing with these at all? I've gotten them many times now but not cleanly yet....
EDITED_BY: Loki_the_trickster (1211303074)
I'll probably get yelled at for search doings, one of the reasons I never post on HoP, but here goes anyway.....
Okay, I haven't been in many of the "tech" poi discussions or around any spinners for quite awhile so I don't know how far people have gone with things as far as innovations and such. Recently I've been trying to conquer the cateye anti-spin ellipse stuff and as always working on tangle stuff, don't know what it is but I just can't stop with the tangles. So after being obsessed with isolated hyperloops and anti-spin isolated HL's for some time and trying to figure out how to iso a butterfloop, which I still haven't. Something came to me yesterday while working on cateyes and thinking about how cool anti-spin iso. butterfloops would be......cateye butterfloops!!!!!!
SO!
I think I have a theory that what I am doing actually takes what is your typical "unit circle" and makes it so its a half size smaller. I think the smallest circle you can make with poi is actually half the poi length with these....
So if you are doing a butterfloop and you drive from the cross point of your poi you have to do circles with the poi head, your hands, and the center point at one quarter your "unit circle" diameter so the largest circle is one half your typical "unit circle" which would be with the non anti-spin poi head. Does that make sense? Am I wrong with this? I'm really not sure if that would mean that a true "unit circle" would be half poi length or not, thoughts?
Has this been discussed much? Anyone playing with these at all? I've gotten them many times now but not cleanly yet....
EDITED_BY: Loki_the_trickster (1211303074)
My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
Discussion elsewhere.....
https://techpoi.tribe.net/thread/2f133d87...70-b729154a7626
Discussion elsewhere.....
https://techpoi.tribe.net/thread/2f133d87...70-b729154a7626
My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
I was reading your post on this on another board, but Alien beat me to posting and I just got lost. :P Let me try again..
what Im getting lost on is this: Are both hands performing individual cateyes? Im trying to envision this, but Im having trouble identifying if the tangle would add and subtract a twist within a single rotation (in which case, how are you managing that!?), OR if you isolate the hands and poi while already in a butterfloop, wouldn't you simply cause the tangle to release?
Its an exciting theory. Im playing with tangles, cateyes, and hybrids myself so I would love to understand this better and try it out. But, as you can see from my upchuck of a question, Im still rather boggled.
I was reading your post on this on another board, but Alien beat me to posting and I just got lost. :P Let me try again..
what Im getting lost on is this: Are both hands performing individual cateyes? Im trying to envision this, but Im having trouble identifying if the tangle would add and subtract a twist within a single rotation (in which case, how are you managing that!?), OR if you isolate the hands and poi while already in a butterfloop, wouldn't you simply cause the tangle to release?
Its an exciting theory. Im playing with tangles, cateyes, and hybrids myself so I would love to understand this better and try it out. But, as you can see from my upchuck of a question, Im still rather boggled.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
Okay lets see if I can clarify this for you a bit.....its still quite new to me and no one else is doing them apparently so here goes.....
Timing seems to be everything to keep the tangle, it seems like the cateye poi gets real lazy and almost falls over the other to stay tangled and keep the pattern. I've managed to keep it going for four rotations before loosing the tangle, its hard.
So lets begin with cateyes (non-butterfloop)....When doing these, in butterfly, one poi cateyes and the other is an extension. Your "drive" point is at your hands, they rotate around your "unit circle" and create the cateye pattern.
Now in butterfloop, I've been working on these in a "reverse" butterfloop because they are easier for me, enter your butterfloop as normal, hands separated and equal to your poi. (I'm going to use "unit circle" as a reference point for clarity even though they only apply to non-tangled poi) Your nexus now becomes your "drive" point and its at 1/2 your "unit circle" diameter. Your hands do circles in the same direction at 1/4 your "unit circle" and this will cause your cateye poi to rotate at 1/2 "unit" and your extension to travel at 3/4 "unit" I think....still a little unsure on those last two numbers.
The hardest part is at the bottom of the rotation and going back up. Thats where the laziness of the cateye poi comes in. The timing must be perfect and it almost seems that if you slow down in your hand rotation the poi will kind of flop over and stay tangled.
I think that makes sense, tell me if it doesn't, hope it helps!
Okay lets see if I can clarify this for you a bit.....its still quite new to me and no one else is doing them apparently so here goes.....
Timing seems to be everything to keep the tangle, it seems like the cateye poi gets real lazy and almost falls over the other to stay tangled and keep the pattern. I've managed to keep it going for four rotations before loosing the tangle, its hard.
So lets begin with cateyes (non-butterfloop)....When doing these, in butterfly, one poi cateyes and the other is an extension. Your "drive" point is at your hands, they rotate around your "unit circle" and create the cateye pattern.
Now in butterfloop, I've been working on these in a "reverse" butterfloop because they are easier for me, enter your butterfloop as normal, hands separated and equal to your poi. (I'm going to use "unit circle" as a reference point for clarity even though they only apply to non-tangled poi) Your nexus now becomes your "drive" point and its at 1/2 your "unit circle" diameter. Your hands do circles in the same direction at 1/4 your "unit circle" and this will cause your cateye poi to rotate at 1/2 "unit" and your extension to travel at 3/4 "unit" I think....still a little unsure on those last two numbers.
The hardest part is at the bottom of the rotation and going back up. Thats where the laziness of the cateye poi comes in. The timing must be perfect and it almost seems that if you slow down in your hand rotation the poi will kind of flop over and stay tangled.
I think that makes sense, tell me if it doesn't, hope it helps!
My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
I think it does, but I'll need to go home and get the poi to try it out. Sounds excellently challenging.
Just to clarify, are you slowing your motion on the way down and letting the cat eye poi fall back into the tangle? Or, are you slowing it down on the upward cycle?
It sounds like there might be a slight jerking motion as the cateye poi hits the 6 o'clock position, so that you have the energy to reach the top again.
Again, Ill have to try this first, but whoa! Very cool. Im already envisioning problems with me maintaining the proper tension, lol!
I think it does, but I'll need to go home and get the poi to try it out. Sounds excellently challenging.
Just to clarify, are you slowing your motion on the way down and letting the cat eye poi fall back into the tangle? Or, are you slowing it down on the upward cycle?
It sounds like there might be a slight jerking motion as the cateye poi hits the 6 o'clock position, so that you have the energy to reach the top again.
Again, Ill have to try this first, but whoa! Very cool. Im already envisioning problems with me maintaining the proper tension, lol!
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
I think I see what you did there
Helps me to understand somethin else I've been messing with; A stretchy circle-continuous butterfly airwrap, but alternating between inverted (The nexus and the poi heads inside your arms) and normal spinning outside the arms.
Does cat eye define a move as antispin?if so, I *think* it would require crossed arms at one point as well.
I think I see what you did there
Helps me to understand somethin else I've been messing with; A stretchy circle-continuous butterfly airwrap, but alternating between inverted (The nexus and the poi heads inside your arms) and normal spinning outside the arms.
Does cat eye define a move as antispin?if so, I *think* it would require crossed arms at one point as well.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
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SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
Thats one of the problems that I'm having, though a few times I've gotten a few rotations in a row and the tension has been fine. I think there is a way to get the tension right but I don't quite have it yet. Result: it's real sloppy so far...
Its real hard, theres just so much going on, but when it works the look of the move is real cool.
For frame of reference: I'm in Rev. Bfloop, rotating my nexus and hands clock wise, making my left hand poi my CE poi. Its hard for me to tell for sure, again because so much is going on, exactly where in the rotation certain things happen. I think, well it feels like, when the nexus is at 12 o'clock is where theres the lazy part. Thats when the CE poi falls over to keep the tangle and there is a weird jerk at 6 o'clock. I think I'm slowing my hands a bit from 12 o'clock to around 3 o'clock, again not to sure. I need to go play for a bit and see if I can figure it out.
I'll get back to you on that, or you can to me, as it gets figured.
My mind is starting to think of all the other applications that nexus moving could create. I want to figure a way to do point isolations for hyperloops, Basil on Tribe mentioned walking point iso HL's, or anti-spin iso. Hyperloop iso. buzzsaw fountains(was trying to figure out those last night, whole lot of iso. going on) Basically trying to figure out freedom of movement with tangles. These are all in theory as far as I know though I want to make them a reality
Written by :squid
Im already envisioning problems with me maintaining the proper tension, lol!
Thats one of the problems that I'm having, though a few times I've gotten a few rotations in a row and the tension has been fine. I think there is a way to get the tension right but I don't quite have it yet. Result: it's real sloppy so far...
Its real hard, theres just so much going on, but when it works the look of the move is real cool.
Written by :squid
Just to clarify, are you slowing your motion on the way down and letting the cat eye poi fall back into the tangle? Or, are you slowing it down on the upward cycle?
It sounds like there might be a slight jerking motion as the cateye poi hits the 6 o'clock position, so that you have the energy to reach the top again.
For frame of reference: I'm in Rev. Bfloop, rotating my nexus and hands clock wise, making my left hand poi my CE poi. Its hard for me to tell for sure, again because so much is going on, exactly where in the rotation certain things happen. I think, well it feels like, when the nexus is at 12 o'clock is where theres the lazy part. Thats when the CE poi falls over to keep the tangle and there is a weird jerk at 6 o'clock. I think I'm slowing my hands a bit from 12 o'clock to around 3 o'clock, again not to sure. I need to go play for a bit and see if I can figure it out.
I'll get back to you on that, or you can to me, as it gets figured.
My mind is starting to think of all the other applications that nexus moving could create. I want to figure a way to do point isolations for hyperloops, Basil on Tribe mentioned walking point iso HL's, or anti-spin iso. Hyperloop iso. buzzsaw fountains(was trying to figure out those last night, whole lot of iso. going on) Basically trying to figure out freedom of movement with tangles. These are all in theory as far as I know though I want to make them a reality
My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
Sorry to double post, you posted while I was writing that last one...
A cateye is an anti-spin ellipse
This is the one I'm doing but the yellow bit is the nexus of a butterfloop.
Hmmmm can you tell me a little more on that? I'm intrigued
EDITED_BY: Loki_the_trickster (1211232425)
Sorry to double post, you posted while I was writing that last one...
Written by :LTC
Does cat eye define a move as antispin?
A cateye is an anti-spin ellipse
This is the one I'm doing but the yellow bit is the nexus of a butterfloop.
Written by :LTC
Helps me to understand somethin else I've been messing with; A stretchy circle-continuous butterfly airwrap, but alternating between inverted (The nexus and the poi heads inside your arms) and normal spinning outside the arms.
Hmmmm can you tell me a little more on that? I'm intrigued
EDITED_BY: Loki_the_trickster (1211232425)
My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
I say we shorten this to catterfloop
I say we shorten this to catterfloop
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
Mike, I love it! I'll second that motion
Mike, I love it! I'll second that motion My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
gahh! That wont take a conversation or two to explain, will it?
Ill be honest, I had the hardest time understanding explanations about what a cat-eye was until I heard it called an antispin ellipse. After that, I felt so stupid, but hey all of a sudden I can "cat-eye" left, right, clockwise, counterclockwise, no sweat.
I guess Im just not inventive enough. :P Now I gotta go figure out how to add this tangle in there.
gahh! That wont take a conversation or two to explain, will it?
Ill be honest, I had the hardest time understanding explanations about what a cat-eye was until I heard it called an antispin ellipse. After that, I felt so stupid, but hey all of a sudden I can "cat-eye" left, right, clockwise, counterclockwise, no sweat.
I guess Im just not inventive enough. :P Now I gotta go figure out how to add this tangle in there.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
SILVER Member
travelling without moving
1,286 posts
Location: Maghull, Liverpool, United Kingdom
travelling without moving
1,286 posts
Location: Maghull, Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posted:
*sprints back to the beginner poi moves threads, dazed and confused, and also a little bit scared by the technical-ness of all this
*sprints back to the beginner poi moves threads, dazed and confused, and also a little bit scared by the technical-ness of all this
Heilige Scheiße, Batman kommt!
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O.B.E.S.E.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
are you trying to cateye the knot or just the entrance and exit?
since its bfly, by minimizing/altering the cateye to dragons tongue and elipsoid extension you can cheat the knot to get the effect. full circle cateyes wont work in a knot. but there's more than one way to skin a cat.
isolating the whole affair b4 you enter will actually be easier to "aim"if the isolations are smooth-less distance to travel, etc. but the only one who will see it is you
catterfloop rox
are you trying to cateye the knot or just the entrance and exit?
since its bfly, by minimizing/altering the cateye to dragons tongue and elipsoid extension you can cheat the knot to get the effect. full circle cateyes wont work in a knot. but there's more than one way to skin a cat.
isolating the whole affair b4 you enter will actually be easier to "aim"if the isolations are smooth-less distance to travel, etc. but the only one who will see it is you
catterfloop rox
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Farout
First techy poi thread I've looked at for ages and not only is it a gorgeous move (thanks for the vid, I am intensely visual and learn nix from written descriptions) but ARASHI is here!!
hello bro you lovely!
Farout
First techy poi thread I've looked at for ages and not only is it a gorgeous move (thanks for the vid, I am intensely visual and learn nix from written descriptions) but ARASHI is here!!
hello bro you lovely!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
Hunting robot foxes
1,046 posts
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England (UK)
Hunting robot foxes
1,046 posts
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England (UK)
Posted:
Oh dear, when I entered this thread I knew I'd had a drink last night. Now I think my brainmeats are trying to escape through both ears at once.
You guys are mint, but you're causing me actual physical pain with your supreme techiness
Oh dear, when I entered this thread I knew I'd had a drink last night. Now I think my brainmeats are trying to escape through both ears at once.
You guys are mint, but you're causing me actual physical pain with your supreme techiness
Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
can someone refresh my memory on what a Dragon's Tongue is, that Arashi was talking about? I know Ive heard the term, but I cannot remember what it is supposed to be.
can someone refresh my memory on what a Dragon's Tongue is, that Arashi was talking about? I know Ive heard the term, but I cannot remember what it is supposed to be.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Slack, like a whipe crack.
all I know,
:R
Written by
Squid
Can someone refresh my memory on what a Dragon's Tongue is, that Arashi was talking about?
Slack, like a whipe crack.
all I know,
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
But in conjunction with a butterfloop? Sounds a bit like a whip catch, but without letting go. I feel like Im missing something.
But in conjunction with a butterfloop? Sounds a bit like a whip catch, but without letting go. I feel like Im missing something.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
The cateye happens after the tangles nexus, just like if you were doing a regular cateye but instead of driving the move from your hands going around your unit circle diameter you are driving your nexus around in a circle half your unit. The goal is to be able to keep it going not just to intersect briefly. So far the most rotations I've gotten is 4 and it was sloppy but I have gotten 2 rotations clean and it looks real nice to me. The times I got it clean it seemed like my nexus was doing more of an elipse than a circle....
I think I'm missing something as well.....what is a dragon tongue?????
Written by :arashi
are you trying to cateye the knot or just the entrance and exit?
The cateye happens after the tangles nexus, just like if you were doing a regular cateye but instead of driving the move from your hands going around your unit circle diameter you are driving your nexus around in a circle half your unit. The goal is to be able to keep it going not just to intersect briefly. So far the most rotations I've gotten is 4 and it was sloppy but I have gotten 2 rotations clean and it looks real nice to me. The times I got it clean it seemed like my nexus was doing more of an elipse than a circle....
Written by :squid
Sounds a bit like a whip catch, but without letting go. I feel like Im missing something.
I think I'm missing something as well.....what is a dragon tongue????? My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
Sorry guys, I was talking about entering from both hands cateyeing. Actually even got a vid yesterday of it that way n now I'm realising it was for nothing wouldnt this be more of a hybrid caterfloop? with only one, you're on the right track. Ill post my dragons tongue comments on a cateye thread to keep this on topic.n stay tuned for lots and lots of cateye trix on video soon. meg has managed the impossible and gotten me on camera )
Gabe!!! Hey sweetie! Miss seein your cheerful aura. Makin plans to come that way!!
Sorry guys, I was talking about entering from both hands cateyeing. Actually even got a vid yesterday of it that way n now I'm realising it was for nothing
wouldnt this be more of a hybrid caterfloop? with only one, you're on the right track. Ill post my dragons tongue comments on a cateye thread to keep this on topic.n stay tuned for lots and lots of cateye trix on video soon. meg has managed the impossible and gotten me on camera )Gabe!!! Hey sweetie! Miss seein your cheerful aura. Makin plans to come that way!!
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
If you post your comments on another thread, could I bother you to link it here? It would be fab to be able to track down all the tangents and relate them back to the original thought.
Written by :arashi
Sorry guys, I was talking about entering from both hands cateyeing. Actually even got a vid yesterday of it that way n now I'm realising it was for nothing
Gabe!!! Hey sweetie! Miss seein your cheerful aura. Makin plans to come that way!!
If you post your comments on another thread, could I bother you to link it here? It would be fab to be able to track down all the tangents and relate them back to the original thought.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
Um. No promises. I'm doing this on me phone... Pasting etc. Is a bit too much.
Um. No promises. I'm doing this on me phone... Pasting etc. Is a bit too much.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
Ah. No worries. I understand.
Ah. No worries. I understand.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
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