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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Transitioning into the buzzsaw?

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Page: 12
FoxxyLove
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

FoxxyLove

~An elegantly bound book in a language you can't read~
Location: Moscow, Idaho

Total posts: 43
Posted:Need I ask more? Right now I'm going backwards, a quick wrap around the wrists and voi-la...it's not quite that easy for me yet of course because I'm still practicing but yeah...just curious how everybody here goes about it. Much <3!~J

"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? -Alice

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:I've got a tutorial up on youtube about shortening your poi, it may help a bit. I also talk a bit about it at the start of this tutorial, mainly just showing that you can shorten your poi from spinning forwards too, but afterwards I go on to talk about buzzsaw fountains and variations, so that may not interest you.



Hope this helps



If you want more ways to seamlessly shorten your poi, let me know and I'll post a video showing some of the various ways I like to shorten my poi.

EDITED_BY: NathanielEverist (1211982026)


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Might be worth seeing anyway. wink

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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FoxxyLove
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

FoxxyLove

~An elegantly bound book in a language you can't read~
Location: Moscow, Idaho

Total posts: 43
Posted:Yeah go on and post it, anything helps and thanks so much!

"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? -Alice

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:Alright, I'll make the video today. It should give you a few ideas on how to shorten your poi without breaking the flow of your moves.

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poinoob
SILVER Member since Oct 2007

member
Location: louisianna, new orleans

Total posts: 45
Posted:with practice in shortening your strings/socks/chains and plane control it is easy to transition into this from any of your weaves forward or reverse

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FoxxyLove
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

FoxxyLove

~An elegantly bound book in a language you can't read~
Location: Moscow, Idaho

Total posts: 43
Posted:Wow that sounds challenging...*ponders*

"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? -Alice

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:I've done my video. Sorry it was such a long time coming, but hopefully it helps you out and gives you some ideas. It's just something you get a feel for through practice and trying new methods.




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FoxxyLove
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

FoxxyLove

~An elegantly bound book in a language you can't read~
Location: Moscow, Idaho

Total posts: 43
Posted:Thank you Nathaniel!!!

"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? -Alice

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NathanielEverist
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

NathanielEverist

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 315
Posted:No problem, looking back on it, it wasn't my best, just remember the concepts of when in reverse, it shortens on the outside of the forearm, and lengthens on the inside. And when forwards, it's lengthens on the outside, shortens on the inside. Keeping that thought in mind, try and make up your own methods, you can do it from anything, a nice easy one is from reverse thread the needle, I should've mentioned that.

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mangomaz
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

Member
Location: North London

Total posts: 3
Posted:I personally dont bother shortening and lengthening when transitioning between buzzsaw and other stuff.... I keep my poi a length so that I can move in and out of buzzsaw without having to worry about that.

Right I am about to experience for the first time trying to explain how I do something in writing!! bwahaha

I normally go into it from an isolation on the side (the type you can get when breaking apart the weave) and from there move into buzzsaw just by moving the isolation in front of me and letting the poi that was previously spinning on the outside to spin inside so that they are both inside and therefore doing buzzsaw.

I have NO IDEA if that makes any sense. But the great thing about this move is that it lets you seamlessly move between weaves and isolations and buzzsaws. It kind of gives you a different way of looking at the way you break moves down as well as you can literally do one buzzsaw spin, change it into an isolation on the left, back into a buzzasw in the middle, isolation on the right and carry on with this sequence with backward circles.

Ramble ramble! I dont really know how all this explain moves on an internet forum thing works lol.


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swirlygrrl
SILVER Member since Dec 2006

swirlygrrl

newbie
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Total posts: 34
Posted:I was just horsing around the other day and came up with a transition between the corkscrew and the buzzsaw. Let me see if I can explain it. As the bottom hand comes up to the top of the corkscrew, turn it upside down to go into a sideways buzzsaw and then just flip the move right side up.

If this doesn't make any sense and you'd like to see what I"m talking about, I can post a clip.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:It didnt really make sense to me, swirlygrrl but I can do the transition. The way I do it is by going from top down and just giving it a little flick to change the momentum so its diagonal, then very quickly straighten it up(its actually indistinguishable that it really was a diagonal)

I use a bit of a sweeping movement with my arms in order to make it come into line.

I think what I'm doing is what you're doing from the top down rather than from the bottom up...


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swirlygrrl
SILVER Member since Dec 2006

swirlygrrl

newbie
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Total posts: 34
Posted:That's what it sounds like to me. I alway have trouble explaining or understanding poi moves without a visual. rolleyes

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:You do this... then this one here, goes in there - keep it spinning - then do this and voila biggrin

wink


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
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swirlygrrl
SILVER Member since Dec 2006

swirlygrrl

newbie
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Total posts: 34
Posted:Wow! I understood that completely! Why can't typed instructions be so clear??? ubblol

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Durbs: I did not quite understand that one. I can do this... then this one here, but it falls apart trying to get it [i[there.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Ah - do *this* little flick there... see it? Like *this*.
It's quite a subtle shift, but once you got it you can do this, this and this anti-spin version much easier.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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swirlygrrl
SILVER Member since Dec 2006

swirlygrrl

newbie
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Total posts: 34
Posted:You, know I've been struggling with that very transition, Durbs! I keep doing *this* instead of *this* and my hands just don't want to move like that so the chains keep getting tangled up like so.

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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere

Total posts: 290
Posted:Snoop Dogg was a master of explaining poi moves, way back in '93: "...It's like this and like that and like this and uh..."

+Alien Jon

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swirlygrrl
SILVER Member since Dec 2006

swirlygrrl

newbie
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Total posts: 34
Posted:HAHAHAHA (We have so hijacked this thread and run off the track with it. :P)

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I had a go with this transition last night, and I can't say I'm enamoured with it.

When it comes to the wrapping with the hand up, or down I found that since I prefer to wrap my poi in only one direction if I'm going to shorten it and grab the chain, I was trying to wrap with one hand up, and the other down, and trying to retain a reasonable facsimile of split time in the process.

Now my poi are about as long as they can be ( just short enough that i can do a full arm circle wit the poi head just skimming the ground ) and i like my buzzsaw on the short side so I'm not having to work with a BS 'twixt fully extended arms giving me more room to move around rather than standing there all ridged, keeping the poi from hitting me....I have to wrap my chains around my hands twice.

So between the one up, one down and the ok, do it again...I found myself flailing awkwardly as I tried this transition to get into the horizontal BS....I tried going into a very short chain corkscrew, I tried going into that "corkscrew in front of you" and I tried bending planes into a regular BS...all resulting in a transition that most likely won't pursue getting smooth.

I much prefer getting into the BS from the three beat weave by doing one wrap of the hand per cycle of the weave, therefore taking two complete cycles of the weave to get the chains shortened enough. Sure, it takes a few seconds but this technique serves to hide the fact that anything is going on and creates the illusion that the chains are somehow "magically" getting shorter.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:I believe I understand your post, Stout. I guess the reason I find that so much easier is because one of the things I love doing most is wrapping them around my fingers, my socks are so long that I have to have them wrapped around my fingers a little in order just to have them short enough for normal use...

But spiral wraps with them ridiculously long are so nice... So shortening the poi in the middle of the transfer actually happens quite naturally for me just by letting the poi wrap around two fingers then one at the end, I'll get one wrap in the transition and the next wrap in the first beats of the buzzsaw.

I doubt that'd help you at all, but perhaps if you wanted to get better at lengthening and shortening more intuitively you could look at the way you hold them? If you're using double finger loops I could understand how it'd be difficult. I wrap mine around the index and the middle finger together(To take the weight), then just around the index finger (just for control) And I wrap further up by going around the two again (So I control WITH the weight) or can even go shorter again wrapping around the index finger, controlling without the weight...

That'll be useful for someone, I guess... All my poi are quite long, though. ^_^

Good luck!


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Ah...finger wrapping. I briefly experimented with that and found I preferred the double loop method of holding my poi, mostly because I like being able to transfer the weight and control between the ends of my fingers and right down to the base of my fingers, mid spin.

It's a plane control thing thing really, as some moves I feel "work better" with the poi held in those different positions, like spiral wraps and extensions just feel more controlled with the poi at the base of my fingers.

I'll get out the socks this afternoon and play around with wrapping in the other direction. Right now, with my current set up, the grip when I wrap in the "wrong" direction ( forwards ) just doesn't feel as secure as the reverse does.

Hmmm.,,, wrapping in the first beats of the buzzsaw? I hadn't thought of that., hang on a sec let me try it out....wow, works a treat...thanks.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:As much as I am all for people having their own preference of holding poi, I see the double loop as being incredibly limiting in general... Sure, Yuta does use the double loop but I don't think you can QUITE categorise him as a general example...



Perhaps the double loop just doesn't suit my style... and I've not really developed any real technique in using them(In which case I'd love to hear from someone who does use double loops to describe how they utilize the benefits of the double loop.)



I think I get what you mean by the spiral wraps somewhat, though I LOVE spiral wraps, so they're natural as anything else for me no matter how I hold the poi..., but

extensions I just don't understand, because with the poi attached to the back of my fingers I feel ever more that they're ATTACHED to me, rather than being an extension of me. If that makes any sense... I understand how it could feel right for you, but it just never has for me. Its probably got to do with my personality, I hate feeling locked into anything at all.



Digression!



But I strongly recommend you learn to control the length of your poi... Controlling the length and speed of your poi are IMHO just as important as plane, direction, timing in many ways. (Though I guess without one you can't have the other)For overall performance they're probably all about even, if not perfectly even... I wanted to say imperative, but that really is a judgment call.



How far off topic am I? A fair way, I dare say. Though.. I guess its about shortening and lengthening still, which relates to buzzsaws. ubbidea

EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1219592361)


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I suppose the handles all depend on what you're used to. I started out with double loops and didn't really consider anything else until the whole concept of throws and weighted handles came up. In short, I thought all poi had double handles.

Then came the socks, but I found I'd me in the middle of a relaxing spin, then suddenly, there's a sock flying off into the distance, so after a year of constantly thinking about holding onto the knots, I finally put double loops on my socks ( ok you can stop laughing now wink ) I'll use single loop,,,but only for really heavy poi, like doubles, or monster sized cathedrals.

I'm all up for varying the length of my poi. Sometimes I'll use that weave method I mentioned upthread, but only shorten one poi to buzzsaw length and spin with one long, one short and quite often I'll wrap them once if I need a shorter chain for things like bicep wraps or Durb's "swishy swishy"

Another interesting way into buzzsaw that I use is from rev BF...wrap twice, then turn into a BF BS, and either stall one, or do a series of 3 stalls to get into either a FWD or REV BS.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Hahah! Understood about the poi flying off into the distance, happened to me often, but thats why I wrap em round my fingers, biggrin

One more way into the buzzsaw I've been playing with which is almost identical to Stouts, from a butterfly, into a throw into a stalled catch, into the buzzsaw. (My socks are only JUST weighted well enough to throw, if I throw them with a flick they'll do the full turn, otherwise they have to be caught in a stall.)


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:My swivel broke on my practice poi. Nearly hit an unsuspecting drummer....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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CPlater1
SILVER Member since Aug 2008

CPlater1

newbie
Location: Bristol, Penrith for uni

Total posts: 28
Posted:Ive seen poipoi break and fly off (3 or 4 in a session with beginners.)

I find it really difficult to go into buzzsaw, apart from spinning a wrap of string once round my hand to shorten it.


If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it most probably is a duck!

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:OK...after some experimentation, I've figured the direction which the poi wrap around my hands isn't so crucial when I'm spinning socks, especially if I'm willing to wrap around my fingers, rather tan my whole hand like I do with chains.

It appears to have something to do with having to get my fingers out of the way as well as the grip I end up when I wrap "in the wrong direction" feeling more secure with socks.

I did get that CS -> BS transition working, but it's still one I'm not fond of due mostly to the fact that I don't use the 2 bt CS at all. I love the 4 bt CS, and there's potential for using this transition at to top of that pattern.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Jah, jah, I don't tend to do 2 beat either. Also, as a side note just having the poi at the top and spinning around with them held at your shoulders works really well when you sweep down into the buzzsaw, feels nice and swishy.

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Page: 12

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