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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:reading this-



http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1



and this-



http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/2



i felt the need to make comment, but, the reply button would not work on either, so I guess they've been locked?



From the perspective of a (long-standing) member of the HOP community, i felt it was important to put forward two points-



1. why some may feel the need to talk about the banning of another long-standing member of the community, not necessarily to criticise those who made that decision, but, simply because that is what community members do when someone is exiled- they feel the need to talk about it



2. address the posted comment by a mod that, from the perspectice of a mod, any discussion of said members banning, is necessarily disrespectful to the mods



To elaborate on point 2, IMO, the discussion on the threads that have been removed or locked, did not come across as disrespectful to the mods.



To question a decision is not necessarily disrespectful.



It's true that the banning of NYC has gone largely unnoticed, till now. But, now, it has very much been noticed and, to expect this community to not talk about it, is, IMO, unrealistic.



There may be very good background reasons why it's seen as best for no discussion to take place, but, obviously, from the perspective of the community, those reasons are not known.



I know it's a difficult thing to make judgements on.



The main thing I want to say is that I find it very unpleasent when multiple threads are locked or removed, when, in my eyes, they contained nothing offensive.



I would also like the mods to examine the possibility that the pulled/stoped discussions are actually not disrespectful to HOP or the mods, but are simply members of the community discussing something which is important to them.



I'm assuming that this thread is not also going to be seen as disrespectful- it's certainly not intended as such.



If threads discussing this chain of events are going to be systematically pulled or locked, then, like many here, I'm going to be wondering whether I'm part of this community any more.



A community talks- that's the point of it.



If that talk is abusive, damaging, hurtful, then it has to be pulled- no questions about it.



But I'm concerned that what is developing here is the pulling of stuff that is not at all abusive, damaging or hurtful.



Banning someone for good reasons is one thing, but expecting the community to 'never again utter their name' is dodgy as hell smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:No what I was saying is why did you feel the need to ask the same question that has already been asked a number of times and been answered.

You asked:
Why when there is a serious conflict between two people, and a resolution cannot be reached, why only one member is banned.

The mods have already said clearly and multiple times that it was not one conflict between only two people and it was not just one incident and that is why only one member was banned


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :Pele


*wondering if OWD actually read the response that one of the threads was pulled to be reviewed and is not deleted or locked*





Yes, I did. The fact that two threads have also been locked, including Bluecats, which contained nothing problematic, as far as i could see, was the reason i posted.

As Pyrowill puts it-

 Written by :


It is my view that 'we' the community are upset about how threads DISCUSSING the incident have been locked or removced so we are unable to DISCUSS the incident.





Concerning the point about discussion being discouraged because NYC isn't here to defend himself- from what I've seen to now, no-one is putting NYC down, if anything, entirely the opposite.

Whilst I appreciate that, in the absence of NYC, threads could develop into being problematic, then, yes, it is possible- he's barred, so obviously he can't contribute.

But, what's wrong with simply dealing with that contingency when, or if, it arises?

As long-term members, many of whom have contributed substantially in various ways to HOP, there's obviously going to be a desire for discussion when another long-term member is barred.

Not that it's necessarily going to be critical against mods or anyone else, but there is going to be a need for discussion, if only cos there may be concern that it could also happen to us.

And that isn't going to be helped when, in addition, a non-offensive post by Bluecat, another long-term respected member and contributer, is locked, simply because it asked where another post went.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted: Written by :onewheeldave



And that isn't going to be helped when, in addition, a non-offensive post by Bluecat, another long-term respected member and contributer, is locked, simply because it asked where another post went.



Well said


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I, for one, wish this would stop.

Have you ever done something you aren't proud of? Would you appreciate it if someone put your shortcomings and transgressions up for the world to judge?

Lord knows, I have ticked off Malcolm and the mods, too. I've done it more than once. When I've been warned, I simply shape up my act and apologize. The fact that they do this when necessary and the fact that I have never known a mod to abuse his or her power is why I trust and appreciate them. But while ticked them off I may, I have never felt in danger of being banned.

But I sure as heck appreciate that the mods never let fly with the details of how I managed to ruffle their feathers. Those were personal debates and personal conversations and they aren't privy to anyone else here. And if, heaven forbid, I do get myself banned one day, I hope they will have the decency not to talk about the details.

That's why the mods aren't going to let details fly about this, either. The fact of the matter was that he must have exhibited behavior severe enough to make a bunch of people who I trust and appreciate feel unsafe enough him to take such a drastic action. This decision must have cost several of the mods many, many nights of sleep. NYC was a trusted, respected member of the board.

I will remind everyone that it is not uncommon for apparently upstanding, trustworthy members of a community to have a dark underside. I am not sure if that is the case with NYC, but he did something to make all the mods vote him off the board. Banning of contributing members of our community has only happened a handful of times since I joined this board 7 years ago.

But whatever did happen is not any of our business. It is NYC's and the mods' business and their business only.

Now can we please drop it or take it to PM's? The whole conversation is accomplishing nothing except for making some of us really sad.

Please? grouphug


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:As for talking behind somebodies back, can we please leave highschool again? Are we calling somebody a retard behind their back? No, we're trying to have a discussion about someone being banned. Why is asking for the reasons why considered talking behind his back? And yes, I would like more than vague answers. I concur with what somebody else said, are we no longer allowed to mention his name?

pele: Again with using a word I didn't. Important. It is ENTIRELY true that malcolm is MORE important than me as a member of these forums. Or indeed as anyone else. He's also more useful. (Which is the word I used.) Some would argue that the mods are more important than 'normal' members. Hell, pele's opinions are more important than our concerns, cos she can lock threads and we can't. That's a tangent anyway.

Why is it 'reasonable' to close a thread because one of the main characters isn't present? Are we supposed to not talk about presidents or celebrities because they aren't present? Or does that fact that NYC used to be a member of this community make a difference? Thou again, we aren't talking about him, we're talking about actions taken against him. Thou I have talked a little about him behind his back, as it were, saying how he helped people. Clearly I'm a criminal.

"knowing the details serves no purpose." What? I suppose knowing the details of an election voting process serves no purpose. The devil is in the details, as they say.



 Written by georgemc

"do I trust the mods/admin folk on HoP?".



Well no. Mods is stretching it a bit. Mod in the singular I still think is more appropriate. If mods become entirely inactive, why aren't new mods appointed? Why should I trust decisions of people I don't know? This is real life ( smile ) after all. SO I have to trust decisions of people I don't know, about things that I don't have full information about (so I can make an informed decision to trust them based on past decisions) and that I won't get told about (the decisions or the reasons or the details.) Great yeah, worthy of unquestioning trust.

 Written by georgemc


Sometimes each of us makes mistakes - we are only human after all, but there are a number of mods on HoP for the reason that one single person may make a mistake but the others will help straighten out any mistakes so that overall, in general, things are fine.




Unfortunately, sometimes peoples personalities can overcome others forcing them into a decision. Especially if they don't care so much about the community anymore. (or at least aren't active in it anymore.) I saw a film about it this one time. wink


 Written by pyrowill


It seems that the closure of the thread was the higher ups saying 'we dont want you talking about this anymore' and we are expected to just agree with the decision.

As Dave put it we are a community, communities talk when things change.




Precisely.


 Written by pk


NYC got banned.. who cares, he did wrong... MCP is a censored stirrer... who cares again?.. do you need so much Drama in your life?.

Do you really give a damn?...

Of course it will be a world against Pele if the rest of the Mods and Admins do not step up publicly... isn't that why you all give her such a hard time because she is the only one that steps up and tells you how it is?...

This forum is pathetic in so many ways.

And this is why I don't bother any more.




As for you PK: Couldn't have described the mod's better myself. Well if I did, I'd have probably been banned. Shame about the pele-no-pay lovefest. Did josh/charles/flashfire etc etc get paid?

And here's me, apparently giving a damn about a community which I'm part of. Why you come back and talk about me I don't know. You just said you're not a part of it anymore. God forbid anybody should continue to spin and continue to think new thoughts about it and wonder what people are doing with it. And damn, WHY WOULD ANYBODY think about people that no longer spin and are no longer on the board? That's just all DRAMA.

What's pathetic about this board is all inside you PK. Why don't you just insult everybody in the community and then not get picked up on it, because you're 'lost in pele'? Why do you think I don't trust pele?

If the mods would like to speak up, then we would finally see how many active mods there are. So far and I think unequivacally. 2.


Somebody said something about pm's...

Did the offences happen in PM format? And if so is that really a reason for banning? I thought things that happen in private should remain there, and in the final analysis, you can block somebody. But well, since we don't know anything about what happened... what can we think? Apart from what the mods tell us to think.

Does anybody else think that Pele shouldn't be a mod? And that more new and active mod's should be appointed? (And no I don't want to be a mod, and I don't nessessarily want the people who agree with me to be mods.)

ZOMG, mozilla's spell checker = not working.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted: Written by :mcp



Somebody said something about pm's...

Did the offences happen in PM format? And if so is that really a reason for banning? I thought things that happen in private should remain there, and in the final analysis, you can block somebody. But well, since we don't know anything about what happened... what can we think? Apart from what the mods tell us to think.
 Written by




Yes, if somebody does some thing in a pm that is continually inappropriate then they should be banned. It is misusing Hop resources and tools that should not be used for those purposes and it is stated in the rules.

Saying that somebody should not get in trouble because it happened in a private message is like saying that I should not get fired if I send inappropriate emails to people in my office.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:I've got to side with Pele and the other mods on this one. As a mod on other forums, bannings do not need to be openly discussed or debated among the general community. Sometimes it can be good to explain to the community *why* a prominent member of the has disappeared, but it's by no means a requirement. Especially if the behavior that resulted in the banning was private, and the other party doesn't wish it to be disclosed.

I'm not entirely sure what could have happened in PM that would result in a banning that couldn't have been solved by blocking. But nonetheless it happened. Making repeated public posts *does* show a lack of respect for the mods and their decisions, if you feel the need to question them use PM. I've never had a problem with the mods here and have always found them open, and responsible. Sometimes not discussing a problem isn't entirely up to them. I don't think they're doing it to snub you guys.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:I do agree that either new mod's should be appointed or current ones reviewed. I have had very little problems with the mod's in the 4 years I've been here, however I feel forum moderators should have a presence. And as seems to come to light from thia whole issue is that Pele seems to be the main face of the 6+ mods.



Wheres FlashFire, I do miss her!



*edit* I'm not saying the mod's here are doing a bad job!! Just as someone pointed earlier why is it we rarely see the rest of them. I understand they are off doing their own things, but I seem to remember the days when there would be about 4 mod's on a day


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :mcp


Does anybody else think that Pele shouldn't be a mod? And that more new and active mod's should be appointed?



I think Pele's done a fine job. As for other mods, I don't think we need them right now. The community is generally too peaceful.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:I don't think this is the place to be discussing if Pele should be a mod, I think that would be a fast way to get this thread locked/deleted so lets not go there.

If people have any issues with mod's take it up with them or the big boss, via PM it would seem wink


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning


I, for one, wish this would stop.

Have you ever done something you aren't proud of? Would you appreciate it if someone put your shortcomings and transgressions up for the world to judge?

.........................That's why the mods aren't going to let details fly about this, either. The fact of the matter was that he must have exhibited behavior severe enough to make a bunch of people who I trust and appreciate feel unsafe enough him to take such a drastic action. This decision must have cost several of the mods many, many nights of sleep. NYC was a trusted, respected member of the board.





In none of the threads I've seen related to this, has there been anything that makes NYC look bad, or contain any real detail of why he was banned.

I don't think people are asking for the kind of details that you're talking about.

It started from a noticing of his absense, led to the fact that he'd been banned and, as is to be expected, discussion took place.

No-ones demanding that the mods disclose any kind of personal details about it.

Some of us are clearly concerned primarily by the locking or removal of threads that contain no problematic posts and the fact that there seemed to be some kind of attempt to enforce a hushing-up of the entire matter.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted: Written by :onewheeldave



No-ones demanding that the mods disclose any kind of personal details about it.

Some of us are clearly concerned primarily by the locking or removal of threads that contain no problematic posts and the fact that there seemed to be some kind of attempt to enforce a hushing-up of the entire matter.



ditto


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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georgemc
georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Member Since: 16th Oct 2006
Total posts: 2387
Posted: Written by :onewheeldave


No-ones demanding that the mods disclose any kind of personal details about it.


OWD - did you read MCP's post?

But that aside, I understand the rationale behind thinking that thread locking = hush it up. But that wasn't the intent. As I said, it was felt that a one sided discussion wasn't going to be a useful discussion.


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :onewheeldave


 Written by biggrinoc Lightning


I, for one, wish this would stop.

Have you ever done something you aren't proud of? Would you appreciate it if someone put your shortcomings and transgressions up for the world to judge?



The fact that we're not saying anything bad about him has nothing to do with it. He is entitled to privacy regardless of content of the information that people want.

The fact that we're talking about this is worse than bad; it's pointless.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :PyroWill


I don't think this is the place to be discussing if Pele should be a mod, I think that would be a fast way to get this thread locked/deleted so lets not go there.

If people have any issues with mod's take it up with them or the big boss, via PM it would seem wink



I agree. This thread seems to be giving rise to a fair few issues and agendas, all of which could potentially get a bit flamey.

I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss those issues, but, I think it would be better to at least do them on their own specific threads, cos, the more they crop up on this one, the more likely it is to get locked.

I think it's a bit harsh to be discussing whether Pele should be a mod, she's doing a good job as far as I can see and, no doubt, a hard job that takes up a lot of time she could devote to other things.

As she's pointed out, NYCs banning was not her decision, but a group decision of all the mods there at the time.

For me, this thread is just about questioning the locking of a couple of threads that, as far as I can tell, were not in need of locking and, concern about some of the other issues to do with NYC's removal.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:It's unfair that everytime people get narky, Pele gets blamed.

Maybe if someone else was committed enough to spend so much time on here doing a job that people hate you for they'd be more justified in complaining. But at the moment I see noone else willing to put their friendships on the line.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :georgemc


 Written by :onewheeldave


No-ones demanding that the mods disclose any kind of personal details about it.


OWD - did you read MCP's post?

But that aside, I understand the rationale behind thinking that thread locking = hush it up. But that wasn't the intent. As I said, it was felt that a one sided discussion wasn't going to be a useful discussion.



No, like I said before, I didn't see MCP's post, cos it was removed.

I started this thread cos of the locking of the two threads linked to in my first post and the general vague sense of official dissaproval of discussion concerning NYC that seemed to be emerging.

Whatever the content of MCP's post (which I don't know cos I didn't see it), i do know that Bluecats thread was asking a simple question in a way that did not cause offense to anyone, or break any board guidelines that I'm aware of- yet it got locked.

And, there seemed to be a bit of a pattern emerging, along the lines of 'mention NYC=locking' which I found a little disturbing.

Maybe, ultimately, this is about feedback and, some baord members are just making it known that they'd prefer thread locking to be a last resort in extreme circumstances, rather than being applied as it has been with threads conected with the NYC issue.

Maybe the mods and admin would have been a lot happier if, post NYC's ban, no-one noticed and it never got talked about.

But, that's obviously not the case now- it has been noticed and, not surprisingly, as he'd been here for years as an integral member of the community, people are talking about it.

And, i really do thing that the approach of locking and removing threads that has happened over the past few days, has been counter-productive on all levels and, far from encouraging people to leave the subject alone, has had entirely the opposite effect.

As far as I can tell, it's censorship- no-one likes that and, it usually doesn't work anyway.

(Obviously, I've no problem with the removal of offensive posts, but these threads that have been locked were not offensive or problematic).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by biggrinoc Lightning







The fact that we're not saying anything bad about him has nothing to do with it. He is entitled to privacy regardless of content of the information that people want.



The fact that we're talking about this is worse than bad; it's pointless.





The fact that we're not saying anything bad about him, IMO, is relevant- saying bad things about a person behind their back is nasty, saying good, or indifferent things, is not nasty.



When NYC, or any of us, sign up to a public online discussion board, they know full well that people will, at some point, comment on them or their opinions- that's pretty much the point of the thing.



If they leave, or get banned, people may still comment on them or their opinions- that's the way things are.



IMO, if that talk gets offensive, then, I'm OK with it being moderated, but, in this case, it isn't offensive, certainly not towards NYC, so i don't really see the problem.



Especially in a case like this, where the real issues aren't even about NYC, but about a banning and, what appears to be, censoring of discussion.



A persons been banned and no-one can talk about it- that's the issue, the fact that that person happened to be NYC is merely accidental- it's the issue that's being discussed, not NYC.



Having said that, others have expressed reasonable concern or support to NYC and, again, that's not a bad thing- it sounds to me like a good thing.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:FWIW, I am here. Have been here the whole time; watching, cringing, and contributing behind the scenes.

I have no illusions about my relevance these days.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:it is possible to contribute to a community without being a postwh*re smile
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1208848202)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:I know exactly the whole reason why you don't trust her MCP, I am not stupid nor am I blind.



But I think that you are wrong for it too, but it isn't my place to get involved, I don't need/want the drama, I have seen what Pele does over the years on and offline I don't need to call her out like you do with your personal vendetta.



I don't need drama, like I said before... and I don't need to fly half way around the world to talk about some one behind their back either not when they could have done it face to face, or via pm/email now MCP... care to explain to me why you would be talking about me behind my back to Icon? I think that just goes to show what kind of person you really are.



And if I am infrequent on these boards like i have been for the last 4+ months... then it is because of you, it is because of you that I can not be bothered, it is because of you who can not control your mouth and or your opinion... so pick me up on what you will MCP, I don't care one bit.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:And as for new mods appointed?

I remember the whole cantus / Mod thing some years ago! how hilarious was that? ...


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Sorry that I didn't keep up with all the three pages of what has been written in here about the topic.

Whilst I felt that Meg's thread has been a cheeky attempt from the very start (and as I understand she indeed has been talking to NYC prior to starting it) - I am in a way grateful that she did.

First: I can take the accusation of "having someone bumped off this board for not agreeing to my opinions"... ubbloco this way I shall continue with Meg, Lurch, OWD, that part of Stone who argues with me about Buddhism, that part of Pele that disagrees with me on FB and finally when I'm done with everybody, just monger with my own self... how boring of a board would this be? How boring of a planet would it be where we all agree with each other and maybe even all look the same? Diversity is what makes this a color- and such a beautiful planet.

Next: When it comes to "a single provocative post and getting banned" - I should have been kicked off this board a long time ago.

Further: When it comes to "a single offensive post or thread and getting banned for this" - again I myself should have been banned a long time ago.

And finally: Even though I feel deeply misunderstood by NYC and hurt by his statements against me, even though I have unsuccessfully tried to explain and clarify this to him on many occasions openly and via PM - please note the following

-- I WOULD LOVE TO SEE NYC BACK ON THIS BOARD!

The confrontation with NYC has been very unfortunate and unpleasant - I feel that he formed his opinion about me and stuck to it but - as he can't tell his side of the story/ as advised - I will refrain from going into further details.

It is not my decision to get him "back on board" - as his ban never has been a decision I supported. I perceive him as a highly contributing member on much more than "just" Social Discussion (btw Meg: I myself am teaching and giving workshops for more than ten years now, I am "still" performing firedance and partly earn my living with it, thanks heeps for taking the time to know so much about me personally that you can judge one member against the other - I cannot remember having exchanged a single personal word or in fact any exchange that could be coined "respectful" or "beneficiary" - note: simply as a member of this board)

However all this being the reason that I would like to renew my stance to the mods that

-- I WOULD LOVE TO SEE NYC BACK ON THIS BOARD!

and would hereby "officially" ask the mods, George and Malcolm to review the decision taken.


Again - I have not been involved in this decision, don't know his reactions to the calls he received, don't know who else complained about him and what about. Personally I value(d) his input, expertise and the way he looked at things. I am in no need of claqueurs to brush my ego.

Do I have to perform backflips from Luxman Julah bridge to "proove" the sincerety of this statement? umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:I am glad the thread is open for people to communicate about issues like conflict management and how people work through unusual situations, manage sites and so on. I hope that this thread does not disintegrate or get locked itself due to inappropriate posts of this kind so I hope people stay calm in the face of its provocative tone.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted: Written by mcp

Does anybody else think that Pele shouldn't be a mod? And that more new and active mod's should be appointed?



I dont think HoP would be HoP without Pele. I think the moderators do a great job behind the scenes. Im all for sticking up for NYC, but Im not going to be part of a coup dtat. I didnt see it initially, but this is an old argument that seems to have become a personal vendetta. If this is the whole substance of the current discussion then perhaps NYC should stay banned. Or at least until he moves on, and accepts Pele as Pele.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:And before anyone here get's the wrong idea: - as far as my memory goes - I personally reported NYC only twice. Once to complain about an abusive accusation and once to moderate a "threat" (to notify the mods). If that is incorrect, please feel free to spank me on my Alzheimers.

"Some people" like to brush their egos by their contribution and skills alone (why do I know about this temptation so well?) - but keep in mind that "contribution" and "skills" (of whatever kind) alone do not make a beneficial personality to any community, especially do not give anyone a free ticket to insult and negligence.

(reading Meg's post on Pele as a mod) I have had my disagreements with Pele as a member of this bb on FB and other topics -- but so far I never had any reason whatsoever to question her integrity as a mod. This said I have gained the strong feeling that "some people" seem to trip out and play "highschool games" on her just because they're caught up in a powerstruggle themselves.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:**This bit edited out**





But, as all these posts would suggest, something ain't right. There's a general tide of unhappiness about this whole business.

Pele's been a mod for ages, and her "unpopularity" has maybe mirrored this, but this is a community - and if it's meant to be a fair community, wouldn't it be fair to have moderators accepted/respected by the masses?



As people keep saying, Pele isn't the only mod, but she really seems to be the mod people have the most issues with. I can't think of any others who've been so "controversial" in their operations. Pele herself has said that most of the modding goes on behind the scenes, so why is she have the only mod that people regularly have issue with? As opposed to saying "all those people who disagree with her are wrong", perhaps it's time to look at the counter argument?



Or at least, as Meg suggested, add some more mods and get more balance.





Gosh, it's just like being in "Days of our lives"

(Only I'm sat in an office in Surrey)

EDITED_BY: Durbs (1208859295)


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Durbs - *partly* I can understand the critique against Pele for her ammount of activity on this board. Not certain, but she seems to take the most contribution/decisions of all mods in recent times and - naturally - the most resistance.



 Written by : Durbs

"All these posts"





As of how many (active) members (and their posts) would you bee talking about?



It's a spread phenomenon that 'opposition' often is 'open', whilst 'support' very often is 'silent'.



Also I would oppose that a mod needs to be "the one that pleases the general audience the most".



you're ready to take the job? wink



[/edited for consent]



btw Newgabe: so far it seems as if your call remains unheard shrug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1208859297)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted: Written by :FireTom



 Written by : Durbs

"All these posts"


As of how many (active) members (and their posts) would you bee talking about?




Er - the 3 threads, and 3 pages that have appeared within 24 hours?
And don't forget - 70,000+ members, in total since 2001. Active members isn't anywhere near that.

I wouldn't mind modding, I already Mod another website - but i'm not asking to be made a mod.
All i'd do is tell people to "do a search" and complain about bad grammar wink

I don't think "the one that pleases the general audience the most" is anything like what I was getting at. However I don't think being a mod instantly makes you unpopular...cause and effect bring that about.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey guys - let's cool it on the accusations, insinuations and terseness. I think that there is some really constructive discussion in amongst the angst and Malcolm and the mod team are addressing the issues; it would be really cool if we can look at the real issues that have been raised, and not get caught up in moderating tit for tat nonsense, which, let's face it, is seriously below our evolution as a commmunity.

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