"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
Written by :SpannerWritten by :Pyrolific
In fact, I've been criticised by some members for being too soft, and trying to see too much good in people and other related wussy things
Which is interesting as we currently see moderators are also being criticised for being too hard. Maybe there's the tendency to attempt to solve this by switching to the other extreme end instead of the "moderate" middle way.
on spam robots - "Burn the robot! Melt him down, and then we can make lots and lots of money from his shiiiny juices!"
Owned by Brenn
Written by :Gnor
Posting isnt the only form of activity but how else do you judge activity on the site. If a member/mod reads every post but doesnt respond it doesnt mean thyey arent active . We cant see what the serene little ducks are doing underwater.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :onewheeldave
For me, a mod so do what a mod should do, i.e.-
1. be objective
2. implement board guidelines impartialy
3. never post in an inflammatory manner
4. deal with anyone who does post in a flaming or troll fashion
And, for me, that's it- whether they have the respect of the community isn't anywhere near as relevant as whether they're doing their job properly.
Presumably, if a mod has no respect, it would be because, in some way, they are not following points 1-4?
In that case, it would seem best to fault them on what it is they are specifically failing on?
The very last thing a mod should be aiming for, is winning admiration, respect or popularity- that should be irrelevant.
I've always found, amongst the juggling and spinning communities, that cliquism and 'popularity' is rife- I don't want it playing a part in HOP moderation.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Written by :FiretomYes, but as I said if the admins want a successful and loved site/forum they will listen to their users. This forum was put up for communicating with customers, but also as a means for building what is one of the best forms of advertising you can possibly hope for, and at a low cost, a community of devout users.
Mods should be chosen by the Admins, only the Admins and the Admins alone. Public opinion has nothing to do with this topic. If they choose to have the audience de/select Mods then just as a courtesy, period.
Written by :onewheeldaveAs said before, a healthy cross section of mods is important, but abuse of moderator powers is different to stringently enforcing the rules.
A Mod is a good Mod when he is present and does his job, takes decisions/ actions that might even be highly unpopular - as happened here.
Written by :onewheeldaveI believe you're wrong, as mods not having respect of/being liked by the community is what drives people AWAY from that community more so than if they simply disliked a user.
And, for me, that's it- whether they have the respect of the community isn't anywhere near as relevant as whether they're doing their job properly.
Presumably, if a mod has no respect, it would be because, in some way, they are not following points 1-4?
In that case, it would seem best to fault them on what it is they are specifically failing on?
The very last thing a mod should be aiming for, is winning admiration, respect or popularity- that should be irrelevant.
Written by :PeleRespect is about far more than those few rules, and means more than simply recognizing authority.
if a mod has no respect, it would be because, in some way, they are not following points 1-4?
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Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it hold the universe together.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by :PeleMy apologies that was a complete oversight, I've corrected it, I hope you weren't too offended as you had said you agreed entirely with his comments.
Just for clarification and so there are no miscommunications, Yakumo, those that are written as quotes from me are actually from One Wheeled Dave.
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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by :MalcolmWritten by :Pele
On HoP, traditionally, Admins have the *same* power as mods, not more. The main difference is that they actually administer technical changes/advancements to the bb and in the case of HoP, two of them are the higher ranking positions in the HQ as well.
Correct!
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Written by :bluecat
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
if all posts in this thread were to fulifill guideline no 3 we'd have a very short thread.
josh;
i already had an excellent PM conversation with George about it, but heres a public summary, with a few more thoughts, from me (i do kinda feel responsible for this, even though i did get my issues sorted out a while ago )
more consideration over why threads are banned/moved - less 'reaction modding';
letting people know why their threads have been banned/moved (this was the biggie for me). this to include major contributors to the thread if possible
moderators to remain moderate in their personal posting behaviour (the words *takes mod hat off* don't mean much, and intimidates people, unfortunately)
meg to be more respectful (i'm working on this one behind the scenes, i promise ), cause she actually has great points when you get past the crap
and allow discussion of difficult topics - it was obvious people wanted to talk about NYC but repetition of 'discussion will not be tolerated' from mods was absolutely shocking and has made me seriously consider my own permanent removal from HOP fortunately the topic moved on to to 'what are the issues' and i came back from the brink.
I know you say that HOP is open in comparison to other boards you mod on, but all that statement makes me want to do is totally avoid these other boards.
i hope this helps and doesn't just provoke more outrage.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by :Pyrolific
in terms of improving the situation , I think it would be great (and yes this will need to be coded into the script that runs the forum, and I dont know how hard it is) if we could flag posts and responses to posts in such a way that we could then filter by warning / attention flag and bring up a concise representation of the activities of a user that need attention.
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Written by : Pyro
On the matter of NYCs banning;
I think some things could have been done better - firstly, I think it was a mistake to allow the deletion of posts that form the body of evidence of the case for NYC's banning. If they still existed, it would be possible for anyone to go over them, and see the evidence that we based our decisions on.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :FireTom
Is it really that some of the audience here has so much suspicion against the (common) decision to (temporarily) ban NYC that the presentation of evidence is necessary?
Written by :Pyrolific
I think some things could have been done better - firstly, I think it was a mistake to allow the deletion of posts that form the body of evidence of the case for NYC's banning. If they still existed, it would be possible for anyone to go over them, and see the evidence that we based our decisions on.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :onewheeldave
If people witnessed the alleged abuses, then there would be no doubt in anyones mind- if they don't witness any of it, then there will be doubt.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by :PyrolificWritten by :onewheeldave
If people witnessed the alleged abuses, then there would be no doubt in anyones mind- if they don't witness any of it, then there will be doubt.
which makes me wonder why some people attack HOP administration so harshly (eg cant trust any current mod or admin to tell the truth-harsh), when they obviously weren't 'involved' enough with the goings on on the board to even be aware of the flames and counter flames going on over long periods of time. Now, if they were aware of them at the time, they would, *at the very least* realise that the NYC thing certainly wasn't the 'cut n dried' example of abuse of power that it's certainly being made out to be.
Sure, if the posts were frozen and were on view, even the most untrusting person would have to admit that there was a tough call to make, and I'm fairly sure they would be able to see who was the more aggressive - especially at the end when the final decision (after many warnings) was made. I'm just amazed that people are using this as an example...with so little evidence to back their arguments.
Written by : PyrolificWritten by : onewheeldave
If people witnessed the alleged abuses, then there would be no doubt in anyones mind- if they don't witness any of it, then there will be doubt.
Sure, if the posts were frozen and were on view, even the most untrusting person would have to admit that there was a tough call to make, and I'm fairly sure they would be able to see who was the more aggressive - especially at the end when the final decision (after many warnings) was made. I'm just amazed that people are using this as an example...with so little evidence to back their arguments.
Written by :
So - to summarise,
things we can do better in the future (without potentially extensive modifications of code)
- more use of pointers when threads are moved (and potentially removing the option for users to move threads, due to no public accountability)
- change the tag line of banned users to banned
- freeze all that users posts so that all can see (of course if involved in a conversation, there is nothing to stop the other user modifying their posts afterwards to twist the knife of blame further into the banned and defenseless user)
thats it?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :Pyrolific
Now, if they were aware of them at the time, they would, *at the very least* realise that the NYC thing certainly wasn't the 'cut n dried' example of abuse of power that it's certainly being made out to be.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by :Pyrolific
Yakumo - As much as I think many of your suggestions sound great, I think you need to make suggestions that can be carried out with our system in our context. If you can find
modules that can be added to help, or *easy* hacks that are unlikely to break any of the other functionality, then such suggestions would be most gratefully received.
Written by :Yakumo
I was going to install ubb.threads on my apache dev box to see what it can do, and what plugins would be worth suggesting, but I don't know what version hop runs,
and it's a commercial only product
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Written by :Pyrolific
- change the tag line of banned users to banned
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
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