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Forums > Social Discussion > Reply to bluecats thread which currently seems to be unpostable in

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:reading this-



http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1



and this-



http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/2



i felt the need to make comment, but, the reply button would not work on either, so I guess they've been locked?



From the perspective of a (long-standing) member of the HOP community, i felt it was important to put forward two points-



1. why some may feel the need to talk about the banning of another long-standing member of the community, not necessarily to criticise those who made that decision, but, simply because that is what community members do when someone is exiled- they feel the need to talk about it



2. address the posted comment by a mod that, from the perspectice of a mod, any discussion of said members banning, is necessarily disrespectful to the mods



To elaborate on point 2, IMO, the discussion on the threads that have been removed or locked, did not come across as disrespectful to the mods.



To question a decision is not necessarily disrespectful.



It's true that the banning of NYC has gone largely unnoticed, till now. But, now, it has very much been noticed and, to expect this community to not talk about it, is, IMO, unrealistic.



There may be very good background reasons why it's seen as best for no discussion to take place, but, obviously, from the perspective of the community, those reasons are not known.



I know it's a difficult thing to make judgements on.



The main thing I want to say is that I find it very unpleasent when multiple threads are locked or removed, when, in my eyes, they contained nothing offensive.



I would also like the mods to examine the possibility that the pulled/stoped discussions are actually not disrespectful to HOP or the mods, but are simply members of the community discussing something which is important to them.



I'm assuming that this thread is not also going to be seen as disrespectful- it's certainly not intended as such.



If threads discussing this chain of events are going to be systematically pulled or locked, then, like many here, I'm going to be wondering whether I'm part of this community any more.



A community talks- that's the point of it.



If that talk is abusive, damaging, hurtful, then it has to be pulled- no questions about it.



But I'm concerned that what is developing here is the pulling of stuff that is not at all abusive, damaging or hurtful.



Banning someone for good reasons is one thing, but expecting the community to 'never again utter their name' is dodgy as hell smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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brainstorma
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

brainstorma

old hand
Location: under the fairie wheel

Total posts: 1184
Posted:MCP i have never quoted you
only stated my observations of your posts
and IMO they have been that you see us old schoolers as being a key role in this community
which we are
but you have constantly failed to acknowledge and accept that we are also subject to the rules of this forum

and also thats the issues of the banning are private matter between NYC and the mods admin of this forum

thus you have constantly shown a level of immaturity that failles to move on once your question has been answered with an answer you refuse to accept


"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:thanks for the clarification OWD smile

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I think the issue of what it would take to be banned here.. and who you'd have to upset to get banned...is a very real one. I have been on HoP for just over three years. It seems longer to me though because it has meant so much to me in terms of meeting people and expanding my world. Not to mention that it has has helped me take up a bigger role in assisting the firespinny world that I have been part of for more like thirteen years.

In that time, I have often self-censored my responses when I have observed what I thought was poor moderation or use of power: generally from Pele, I have to finally say, because not to leaves others who have expressed that experience unsupported. Why self censor? Because I have been nervous to get banned, be unpleasantly PMd or have commments/threads moved to defuse the discussion. I knew it happened and I didn't want it to happen. I am STILL nervous to call this directly. But at least I have the notion now that it is fairly hard to get banned here; and I can see that moderation style is changing. Lessons are being learned and more reasonable mods are more visible. So I may become a little braver. Unfortunately though, I see HoP shrinking... less and less people seem to be involved although there are so many members. It's a shame.

EDITED_BY: newgabe (1210220530)


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted:I don't know the details but feel strongly about censorship, proper moderation and similar issues so have to chip in here :



 Written by =flash fire

NYC's status is not for public discussion.





That's quite a totalitarian statement for a friendly open community.



I think those involved should bear in mind that in the context of the universe of 'homeofpoi.com' as far as many members of this community are concerned, you have black bagged and executed their associate, totally off the books.



Not everyone browses hop regularly (yes even 4 months).

His user avatar/title etc give no notice that his account was banned.

His account profile gives no notice that his account was banned.

No statement was made to show that his account was banned.



I'm assuming PMs to him will not go out to his email account any more even if they were set to before, and without an email address to reply to he wouldn't be able to respond anyway.



Considering the account wasn't clearly a spambot, someone with no purpose other than to troll, or a low post troublemaker I view this as a total failure on the part of the mods involved to "moderate" the community.



You cannot do such things to an established user without at least some element of transparency and not expect a massive backlash.



At the very least, common forum practice for all but spambots or the worst offenders is to remove the most offending parts of a post, and leave some kind of banned marker so they're left as an example of what is not acceptable. In most forums marking of banned accounts is automatic, or one of the earlier mods that tends to get written.



Dissapearing entire threads because some small part of it that isn't the OP (opening post) breaks rules/derails/offends is also ridiculous.


Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by :brainstorma


MCP i have never quoted you




Yeah I know that, cos you used a word I didn't with different associations and meanings.

I don't see 'all' old schoolers are useful to the community, and I don't see them all as equal. Sorry. For a trite / tautology sort of example (again) Malcolm is more useful that you or me.

Nor do I equate the forum with the community. Which lots of people here do it would seem. I don't view the HOP community as bounded by whatever the rules say. My communication with the community isn't bounded by the rules. Thou it might occassionally be when I use this forum. And perhaps even when I use the PM function, that's another issue that was never cleared up.

I don't believe that the banning is a private matter between NYC and the admin and mods. And I believe a lot of people feel the same way, as evidenced by this thread, which I am beginning to wonder if you've read.

I don't take text as a very good answer, I think actions speak louder than words and it seems like we're finally getting to that point. I don't think there's even been an admission by a mod that they could have handled the situation better. Perhaps I missed it thou. There's a lot in this thread.

In other news: Well written post yakumo. biggrin Haven't seen you about in a while. hug


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...

Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by :Pyrolific



I like Spanner's idea about changing taglines to show a user has been banned. I reckon we should do that.





I'd be flattered, but it's not my idea, just good online practices I see on every other forum and just one example of very many I don't see here on HoP. Having said that, in this case changing NYC's tagline doesn't sit well with me because although I'd sincerely love to trust that the HoP administration's decision was justified, it unfortunately doesn't currently have my vote of confidence.



 Written by :flash fire



I was miffed, and reacted. Simple as that.





Not when you're a moderator, it's not. My earlier point about the *posting with moderator hat on* phrase may be helpful in understanding why.



 Written by :brainstorma



more transparency when threads are moved to areas where general members cant access (like the mod forum)







It would be only polite to be informed at the time but I'd like to know why they so badly need to be moved there in the first place, specifically what further benefit there is to reviewing them there than here.



 Written by :brainstorma



(all so close access to there account (cant see there profile and photos))

show tag lines of inactive members

say if they haven't logged in in say a year there account/profile shows them as being inactive members

and if its been 2 or 3 rs since they joined there account is closed







Why? Someone who hadn't posted for nearly 5 years longer than that posted in the Old Age Home of Poi forum only recently. Without their old account, returning members may feel shunned and so may not make a new one. There's also at least one member I recall having passed on whose account I would consider it disrespectful to delete. I'd hate to click on old threads like the one Gabe posted on the last page and not see the personalities of those members. Unless it's a great strain on resources, I can't see the justification for erasing such a big part of HoP history.



I also think that unless a profile or photos break the rules, the option should be left open to the banned user to make changes. Anyway, this is more general and belongs in t'other moderation thread really.



 Written by :onewheeldave



This is something like the fourth or fifth thread moving and, each one of those movings has blatently done absolutely nothing whatsoever to quell discussion or improve the mood of the board- all they''ve accomplished is to create more interest and fan the flames of discussion further.







Indeed. The phrase "trying to fit a square peg into a round hole" came to mind earlier.



 Written by :Pyrolific



for the sake of moving forward here, and not just expression of anger, I'd like anyone who is interested to post what they think are the *unresolved* issues here.





To summarise for now: without the members where would be no HoP forum, nor any point in one. It's therefore surely illogical that although the general population of members is changing, as demonstrated by both the old and new voices in these threads, the administration seems either painfully slow or stubbornly resistant to accommodating that change.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3288
Posted:ok sorry - I'm missing what the needs of the changing community are that are so radically different to what we do now. Please be specific.



I'd be very happy for there to be input on improving things round here - if you know of techniques being used on other boards that would be good, why dont you tell us?



I guess I should point out, that I for one, am active on four other boards...and they are all run FAR more totalitarian than this one...but hey - I'm really open to the ideas (as I've demonstrated in this thread) that come from the usergroup.



Let us know what we could do better.



Josh

EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1210215494)


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted: Written by :mcp


I don't think there's even been an admission by a mod that they could have handled the situation better. Perhaps I missed it thou. There's a lot in this thread.


You missed it - Both Pele and Flashfire have admitted they could have handled certain things differently/better. This in relation to moving threads and reactions to certain posts etc. We have said we will be more diligent in leaving placeholders for moved threads for example. (Please note that now that members can move threads themselves, placeholders may not get left if a member does the moving.)

None of us have said anything like that in relation to the banning however.
I will say though that anything can be done better, and some of the ideas mentioned will definitely be considered (but would require changing the code to enable these features so it's harder to do).

There's good and bad in everything - it's the nature of Yin and Yang and the world in general. This thread for instance is predominantly good as it is encouraging discussion about the processes the Mods use when crunch time occurs. As stated, we can always do anything better, so revisiting these is good and thanks for OWD and many of the contributors here for pushing that line of discussion. On the flip side, several of the posts fall back to "name calling" behaviour which is not constructive. As some people fear, it's this kind of behaviour that can cause threads to become locked or moved so if everyone in that category can "take a chill pill" the thread will be a much happier place! biggrin

Thanks all.


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted: Written by

ok sorry - I'm missing what the needs of the changing community are that are so radically different to what we do now. Please be specific



Cheers Pyrolific, I'll have a go at answering your question based on what I've percieved from this thread - remember though everyone, it's my perception, I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth, nor representing anyone individual...

1. eveytime a member is banned to sing it from the rafters loudly, so that everyone knows about it eek

2. to give banned members a public shaming by changing their tag lines to 'banned' eek

3. to get rid of pele - 'cause she's the cause of all the HoP moderation problems, and keeps forcing her will on the other moderators who can't stand up for themselves eek

4. that when someone is banned, the entire community gets to pick over the bones of the decision and put their 2 cents in if they think differently to our moderators eek

5. to instigate a list of 'useful' and not useful members, so that members know who they should listen to eek

when I express it like that it all seems a bit ridiculous really smile



I also reckon, this thread needs more smilies people! stat!

ubbrollsmile
bye nana sunny devil


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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:ubblol

excellent Ade!!!!!!

wave spank ubbidea footinmouth


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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brainstorma
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

brainstorma

old hand
Location: under the fairie wheel

Total posts: 1184
Posted:here here ade

well said
now get to it mods and do as ade said


"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"

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brainstorma
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

brainstorma

old hand
Location: under the fairie wheel

Total posts: 1184
Posted:oops i forgot the smilies

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Oh dear. I thought this thread had gone away.

*ducks, covers, and waits for it to go away*

I'll be over here in the corner with this rather odd-looking device with the smoke coming out of it.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Pong biggrin

(P.S. isn't talking about drugs a banning offence? wink

I agree with all the above.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:*applauses Ade*

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:MCP: What I've dun for the (staffing) community or HoP?

a) I do not owe you any justification for my presence shrug

b) If you dislike me being (still) here - go ahead and bully as you dun before or ask the Mods to remove me shrug

c) I do not owe you any justification for my existence shrug

You're playing the popularity game very well - maybe you're even better in this than in any other discipline...

Thou shalt be rewarded hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Ok. Some suggestions.

1. If a member is banned, don't publicly announce it. Ade is absolutely right. But a little "account inactivated" on their profile page would be good, so that if someone wanted to contact them they'd know not to use HoP anymore. It doesn't give away whether the account was inactivated by the user or HoP if done rightly, so shouldn't be a problem.

2. Since apparently people have missed the "you can move threads, too!" announcement - how about sending round a newsletter by pm every time a major change is introduced? If possible with the option on the settings page to receive it or not.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

ubblol

if all posts in this thread were to fulifill guideline no 3 we'd have a very short thread.

josh;
i already had an excellent PM conversation with George about it, but heres a public summary, with a few more thoughts, from me (i do kinda feel responsible for this, even though i did get my issues sorted out a while ago ubblol )

more consideration over why threads are banned/moved - less 'reaction modding';

letting people know why their threads have been banned/moved (this was the biggie for me). this to include major contributors to the thread if possible

moderators to remain moderate in their personal posting behaviour (the words *takes mod hat off* don't mean much, and intimidates people, unfortunately)

meg to be more respectful (i'm working on this one behind the scenes, i promise biggrin), cause she actually has great points when you get past the crap ubblol

and allow discussion of difficult topics - it was obvious people wanted to talk about NYC but repetition of 'discussion will not be tolerated' from mods was absolutely shocking and has made me seriously consider my own permanent removal from HOP frown fortunately the topic moved on to to 'what are the issues' and i came back from the brink.

I know you say that HOP is open in comparison to other boards you mod on, but all that statement makes me want to do is totally avoid these other boards. shrug

i hope this helps and doesn't just provoke more outrage.

frown


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by :bluecat


if all posts in this thread were to fulifill guideline no 3 we'd have a very short thread.




I've thought that myself while reading this thread!

 Written by :bluecat


moderators to remain moderate in their personal posting behaviour (the words *takes mod hat off* don't mean much, and intimidates people, unfortunately)
frown



I'm actually a fan on *puts mod hat on*
Because that way it allows mods to be human and to gain rapport with the community as members of the community as people with personalities and concerns and who like to have fun with everyone. I think it takes away the sense of intimidation, because if they're always a mod, and seen as unapproachable then I think it's less likely that people would go to them when modding is needed.

It's like how a teacher who yells all the time is less likely to have a student approach them for bullying than a teacher who shows themselves to be approachable. Similarly, being always strict means that when you really need to clamp down, noone cares because you're always strict. But when a nice and easy-going teacher clamps down, you know you've put your foot in it!

I see putting a mod hat on as a more positive approach because it shows that they're human first and a mod second, but by taking the hat off it gives implication of being a human second which is more negative.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:ditto

and Happy Birthday Birgit! hug

*joins Mike in the corner with the strange smokey device, waiting for everything to calm down*


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:oh; and as a guideline for meg;



stick to the meaining of your posts and don't bother with the 'usefulness of members' stuff - it just annoys people. if you were to do that, the posts that make you really mad wouldn't appear with nearly as much monotony , and the rest of us would have a useful conversation to read, not a flame war



and as a guideline for others (and i speak from the point of view of knowing meg better than, er, probably all of you).



read megs posts a couple of times and try to actually understand what shes saying, not just respond to what looks like an insult - frequently its a very insightful statement muddied a bit by some of the personal interactions that have arisen.



and ade? kinda funny, but not very helpful, methinks. it's pretty obviously a dig at meg, and she's pretty riled already (does that mean it qualifies as 'trolling'? if so then do mods have a duty; to remove it? ubblol ). Anyway, even with the disclaimer, thats pretty obviously a 'putting stuff into someone elses mouth'. not helpful when tempers are high.



and finally -

meg and tom. can you just ignore each other? i'm censored bored of this now, and so, i imagine, is everyone else.



shrug


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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brainstorma
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

brainstorma

old hand
Location: under the fairie wheel

Total posts: 1184
Posted:your talking tabout the turkish water pipe arnt you doc
that you smoke shisha through
i have some very nice two apple tobbacco we could smoke in it

*for refrace i have not mentione any illigal substance here*


"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:I have

Ping?


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:I'll back everything Rob said above smile

I used to think like everyone else about meg. then I met her. SHe's lovely. ANd then I understood her posts.

I like that she's blunt and says what she wants. I think more people should do that now and again, otherwise you just get everybody pussy footing around, and no action taken (Like has happened in this thread, and indeed on many forums a lot)

Like when I'm working on getting something looking good. I like someone to have the guts to say 'No, that looks sh!t'. I think only three people have ever said that to me, (Meg is one of them) and I really appreciate it.

When Meg talks about people being more useful than others (sorry Rob, just putting it to rest, I hope) I think she means 'some people are more active than others'. there's no descrimination there, she's stating a fact. another thing that is getting too hard to do for almost everybody nowadays.

Pele's Modding has been brought into question. I would say that I agree with this, but it seems that people are too afraid to oppose a mod, so that idea has been discussed as little as possible. Often I have seen her use what to me seems like a heavy handed approach towards things, and more often than not needs to think about the way she words things. Pele seems to me to be very defensive a lot of the time when there's no need to be, and does come across as authoritarian. ANd when an argument heats up at her, she "tags in" (her words) the boyfriend to handle it for her, who just respouts her opinions in a more offensive tone. Not exactly moderator conduct?

ANd seriously, HoP is way bigger than this website/forum. Just because something wasn't discussed on here, doesn't mean it wasn't discussed somewhere else. Hell, I knew about NYC around Christmas time. I also heard that he had pissed off Pele, who had then got him banned. No, that source wasn't Meg. and yes, that is all the details I heard before I thought 'This sounds slightly political. no interest in getting involved. Oooh, look, that object is out of formation...'

This is a COMMUNITY. ok, it's an online community. still, doesn't mean everybody has to get along. People aren't going to like everyone, and no one has to. Doesn't happen in real life, why should it happen here too? I'll admit, I never really liked NYC. I never really liked the tone with which I read his posts (Seems stupid, huh?) but then, I see the same tone being used by Pele as she's Moderating. I never really spoke to NYC, or met him properly, or even given him a chance. such as life, my bad, I admit. his banning doesn't mean sh!t to me. However, I do see that someone that was as willing as him to get his hands dirty for things that were to benefit everybody as a whole shouldn't have been banned so lightly. I say lightly, because none of us knew of a ruckus going on, therefore, as far as we're concerned, it all happened literally overnight.

Wow. I spoke my opinion. I didn't censor it. I'm brave. too much asslicking going on to be normal... Common sense allows us to work out the gist of what's going on with the aid of speculation. this is where things get blown up out of proportion. oh, and Meg VS Tom... word to your mother. Boring already.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:Very good post awards go to Rob, Yakumo, Birgit (happy birthday by the way), Ed and Spanner.

I really can't be arsed to get too involved with 5 minutes before leaving for work.

So all I would like to say is that it is good that this thread is being allowed open for discussion (quite sad really that I'm constantly in fear next time I log on that it will have been 'black bagged').

I like Birgits idea of a HoP newsletter going around to let us know what changes have happened, I wasn't at all aware that we could move threads, and still haven't a clue.

George, in reference to your above post about how changes would require changing the code, naturally. I'm not sure who's the primary web programmer of HoP but whoever it is, you or whoever, and please take this in the lightest tone possible, erm....get to it? Because things need to change, even if it's just this newsletter idea, or putting 'inactive member' on someones title. I suggest it would be more helpful to the community to hear exactly what changes you might or thinking about implementing. Because so far I only hear how you guys are 'listening to our comments'. I imagine with this seeing you guys laughing around a table going "God they want announcements PM'd to them". I hope the mod's are indeed not only listening to our comments but actually taking constructive action into implementing changes rather than simply talking about it. (I do understand however that this whole lashback incident is still very young and so would naturally expect for changes not to have started yet, I simply don't want for it to be a month/two months later and we're still hearing "We are taking your comments under consideration".

I would also like to say can Meg and Tom please please please either stop taunting each other or if you wish to please do so via PM, because it is aiding nothing to this thread except giving the mod's trigger fingers to pull it. So, well I'm not going to say grow up, just take it someonewhere else yeh?

Crap now I'm late for work


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I don't at all get the feeling that there is a kitchen table of mods laughing at anything. I think that there has been a very fair and sincere listening to what us rabble are bubbling about. These guys are mostly volunteers and they are sensitive to criticism and public comment just like we are. I have seen a change in modding here lately.. more in some areas and less in others.. good changes. I personally feel much better and safer now some of these feelings fears and so on are more out in the open.

And I think its helpful that members (or some older ones?) can click the 'manage this thread' link at the bottom of posts to move them eg from Chat to Help and so on...to keep things tidy without giving mods work.. but perhaps not into the seniors thing.. which is effectively off the board.
And yeah, taunting etc is quite demoralising. I always appreciated the general atmosphere of politeness here, which only a few people used to breach, and it really stood out as inappropriate. It does seem to be getting more entrenched.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Rest assured we're sitting around a kitchen table... not laughing though. We're treating the concerns raised and solutions offered with respect and due consideration.

Changes take time to implement. I guess all I can do is assure each and every one of you that things are moving along behind the scenes and good stuff will result from all this brouhaha.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted: Written by



1. eveytime a member is banned to sing it from the rafters loudly, so that everyone knows about it



2. to give banned members a public shaming by changing their tag lines to 'banned'





Banning a user *IS* the ultimate public shaming, pretending it didn't happen, or hoping people just don't notice is *wrong*.

Changing user title and/or avatar is a standard practice.

If anyone's concerned about change of public opinion of the user/shaming them they should be more seriously considering NOT banning them.

 Written by



3. to get rid of pele - 'cause she's the cause of all the HoP moderation problems, and keeps forcing her will on the other moderators who can't stand up for themselves.





I'm not going to get into 3rd party mod issues, what I will say is a well run system has total mod accountability to other mods and admins. Common systems include many or all of the following, either out of the box or by highly popular plugins :

Any moderator action is tracked by the system and viewable by all other mods, if any mod is abusing their powers it should come to light and the admins should remove moderator status.
Mods can soft delete/or move to hidden archives.
Only supermods/admins can physically delete things, not mods.
A report posts gets generated in a hidden forum when 'report this' is hit by a user, action taken is then done as a manual reply by the mod and thread locked, lets all mods online chip in on tricky decisions easily and rapidly.
Mod stealth editing of a post massively discouraged or filling in the 'edit reason' simply forced as a required action.



 Written by



4. that when someone is banned, the entire community gets to pick over the bones of the decision and put their 2 cents in if they think differently to our moderators





Going on the rest of your post this is sarcasm, but I agree with it dryly. Discussion is the point of a forum, 'where has my friend gone' is absolutely not a subject that should be banned.



 Written by



5. to instigate a list of 'useful' and not useful members, so that members know who they should listen to





er, lol smile

Disabling post count is a great thing imo (except in user prof).

Karma/Rep systems on a lot of boards can be very good for helping newcommers, but are not necessary.

If any such system were ever considered I'd look to a slashdot style good/neutral/bad karma only rather than multiple tiers, to prevent elitism.



 Written by



when I express it like that it all seems a bit ridiculous really



I also reckon, this thread needs more smilies people! stat!



It's lovely your trying to lighten things up, but it is still a very serious issue, and you brought up bits I'd wanted to discuss a bit further biggrin hug



I was going to install ubb.threads on my apache dev box to see what it can do, and what plugins would be worth suggesting, but I don't know what version hop runs, and it's a commercial only product frown



If *ANY* user can now move threads, a permanent redirect, or one that times out in 24hr should be mandatory imo, or it could get very messy once people start to realise this.



PS.

I've been about a tiny bit MCP, just not posted much in months, very tied up irl, need a job etc, missing everyone hug

Love the new tabs at the top of HOP smile

Could the edit boxes be made 100-120 chars wide or so instead of 60, and maybe a few more lines also? I understand the need for saving bandwidth by not having a WYSYWIG editor but this really is cramped smile

A smidgin of javascript to make it user scalable would be a most excellent alternative.



one example with source code once YUI compressed the .js gets down to 7k, once the server gzips it it's about 2k (needs graceful fallback for no JS added though).


Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by :Newgabe

I think its helpful that members (or some older ones?) can click the 'manage this thread' link at the bottom of posts to move them....... .....but perhaps not into the seniors thing.. which is effectively off the board.



smile


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:offtopic
Thanks, Tea Fairy and Will! hug

*tries to find something useful to add to justify off-topicness, but has to resort to "Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?"*

*hands out peace biscuits and ping-pong items to make sure*

*shuts up now* ubbangel


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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