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Forums > Social Discussion > R.I.P. Charlton Heston (death is a part of life)

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Charlton Heston, died today aged 84...




Non-Https Image Link
... anyone?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:Did he?

Whilst Im still respectful to the dead, I cant but help feel that he is totally responsible for all the gun crime in the USA wink

He wasnt shot in a hunting accident, or shot by his wife when he got up in the middle of the night to goto the toilet was he? wink
That would be incredibly ironic biggrin


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I'm also respectful to the dead - as I said - it's a part of life. Now I aim to take life (and myself) half as serious as I used to in the past I like to focus on the sunny side of it...

(*coughs*) There is no connection between C.H. death and the sunny side of life tho, I admit.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I have no special respect for the dead. If dying is part of living then the dead should be remembered for how they lived.

Heston did a lot of respectable things in his earlier life. In his later life, something changed about him and his views became rather extreme.

But dying does not make you worthy of respect.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I wonder...did he die with a gun in his hands that had to be pried out ?

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:And will they bury him with one clutched in his cold, dead hands?

(What the heck? I'm already going to hell for reasons too numerous to list, anyway...)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Edited for taste redface
EDITED_BY: Stout (1207530958)


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Wow I thought HoP of all places would be more respectful towards people with opposing views. I guess not.

BTW He had Alzheimer's in recent years which accounts for most of his eccentricities. But he fought for far more than just gun rights.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:He used to be a major civil rights activist, actually.

To his credit, while I disagree with his views on gun control, I don't seem to recall him ever endorsing a view that would directly threaten the rights, safety, or liberty of others.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I stand corrected, apparently.

Still, I have a feeling that the dementia probably had a lot to do with his rather extreme switch in political leanings.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Where did he threaten the rights safety or liberty of others in that link Stout? Granted he may be a bit extreme and offensive but there are hypocrisies in there that most people are too PC to comment on. I don't agree with everything he says, but yes, he was a grumpy old man, who was sick. His final years weren't kind to him, but don't judge the whole man by the smallest fraction of his life.

It's nice that you guys can poke fun at an old mans death and make suicide jokes.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Lurch..technically he didn't threaten anybody directly however if the type of America that Doc wants to live in is ever going to be realised, then it's extremists like Heston who are standing firmly in the way.

Who looses if gays are allowed to marry ? Nobody.
Who looses if universal access to abortion is granted ? Nobody.

Nobody, except those who feel offended were society to grant such a right.

Good grief, the man is trying to equate the plight of American gun owners with Jews under Nazi Germany...excuse me ?

The man hasn't even figured out that homosexuality and pedophilia aren't related.

This is a man I should respect ? Sure he was a great actor but he used that fame to push a political agenda ( starting in the 1980s ) that most of the western world has moved beyond.

You would see the irony if it did turn out that he committed suicide by gun, and I'll remove that smilie as soon as the truth comes out.

I'll address those hypocrisies.


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:He didn't commit suicide by gun. He was an old man with Alzheimer's Dementia.

The cause of death, although it has not been published, is most likely pneumonia.

As for Mr. Heston, as a gay man, I find his speech hateful. As in hate speech. I wasn't aware he'd said such things.

The only reason I'm not wishing him a hot room in Hell is because of his earlier actions on behalf of the downtrodden. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and blame his later views on the early part of the disease.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Yep....When you have David Duke paying you compliments.....

Anyways, The offending emoticon has been dispatched.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted: Written by : Taken from Wicki

Following the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, Heston and actors Gregory Peck, Kirk Douglas and James Stewart issued a statement calling for public support of President Johnson's Gun Control Act of 1968.(*)[13][14] He opposed the Vietnam War and said he voted for Richard Nixon in 1972.[15]

By the 1980s, Heston opposed affirmative action, supported gun rights and changed his political affiliation from Democratic to Republican.[16] He campaigned for Republicans and Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan,[17] George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush.[18]



(*sidenote) Written by : Gun Control Act 1968


Under the GCA, firearms possession by certain categories individuals is prohibited.

1. Anyone who is under the age of 18, except with the written permission of their parent or guardian.
2. Anyone who has been convicted in a federal court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
3. Anyone who has been convicted in a state court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 2 years, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
4. Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
5. Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
6. Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
7. Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.
8. Anyone who has been discharged from the US Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
9. Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
10. Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
11. Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. (See the Lautenberg Amendment.)

A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 created a national background check system to prevent firearms sales to such "prohibited persons."




 Written by : Carlton Heston

If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist.

If you see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you sexist.

If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion.

If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe.



Find the entire speech here

These are true words, Carlton. This passage I can subscribe to and I can also subscribe to your stance that Ice-T's lyrics in the song (and album) "Cop-Killer" are obscene. I side him that people need to voice their concerns and opinions.

But what I definitely can't subscribe to, is this:

 Written by : Wicki

According to his autobiography In the Arena, Heston recognized the right of freedom of speech exercised by others. In a 1997 speech, he rhetorically deplored a culture war he said was being conducted by a generation of media, educators, entertainers, and politicians against:

"...the God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle- class Protestant-or even worse, evangelical Christian, Midwestern or Southern- or even worse, rural, apparently straight-or even worse, admitted heterosexuals, gun-owning-or even worse, NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff-or even worse, male working stiff-because, not only dont you count, you are a down-right obstacle to social progress. Your voice deserves a lower decibel level, your opinion is less enlightened, your media access is insignificant, and frankly, mister, you need to wake up, wise up, and learn a little something from your new-America and until you do, would you mind shutting up?"



Carlton maybe you were speaking your mind, but this mind was full of hatred. True that 'political correctness' is not worth a dime, if it's only camouflaging one's true intentions.

Thought hygiene though is a desirable undertaking IMO.

You marched with Martin Luther King and stood for civil rights - yet instead making a bridge between the intellectual and proletarian class, you fuelled controversy and hatred.

That's my opinion. And I have the right to say that I don't miss you at all. I think it's unfair to claim that by this means I could possibly disrespect you as a dead person with opinions other than mine, when in fact I don't.

I respect the dead and I respect Carlton Heston as much as I respect any other. I don't celebrate them, because to me celebrating the living is more important than celebrating the death, but this is my personal choice.

If I see a talented and gifted actor and civil rights activist switch from somewhat left to extremely right then I find this sad and wonder about the motifs.

 Written by : green and wrinkly old Jedi master

"Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight."



I don't miss you Carlton but may you rest in peace - that's all.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Whenever anyone starts talking about "gays" or "homosexuals," I apply a simple litmus test.

I simply replace the word "gay" or "homosexual" in their statements with "Jew" or "Black" and then see how it sounds.

If it sounds like a neo-Nazi rally, then it's probably hate speech.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Well said, Doc.

To me there are three ways:

conservative - liberal - progressive. All three have their qualities and are required for balance.

But would it be exclusively for these "God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle- class Protestant, evangelical Christian, Midwestern or Southern, rural, apparently straight-or even worse, admitted heterosexuals, gun-owning - or even worse, NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff-or even worse, male working stiff" people in this world IMO we might either still live in caves or would have already blown ourselves off the surface of this planet.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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