onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:A standard bit of advice for fire-breathing is to drink milk- to line the stomach and prevent absorbtion of fuel

I'm wondering-

1. what's the mechanism here- it seems to me that even if it does prevent absorbtion, the fuel still has to go somewhere- won't it be absorbed by some bit of tract post-stomach?

2. has anybody got any links to info or studies that provide convincing evidence/reasons to believe that milk does have a protective effect?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Milk was once recommended for caustic/irritating substances because it was thought to soothe the lining of the GI tract.

It is not longer recommended for the treatment of any ingestion.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:and what most find commonly recommended is whole milk or buttermilk.
It is also theorized to coat the inside of the mouth to prevent a good deal of absorbtion.
I don't buy it and don't subscribed to it.

Charcoal caps are much better, and are medically made to help with stomach irritation.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:"Did you know that if you suck on a charcoal tablet you can beat a breathalizer?"

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Charcoal is meant to absorb ionized or ionizable chemicals. We give charcoal to patients who have swallowed drugs, for example.

Charcoal does not have any effect on hydrocarbons (like any sort of fuel), unfortunately.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Doc, if you drink gasolene-white gas or lamp oil, then you are given charcoal in the hospital.

(my nephew once drank gasolene accidentally because my idiot of a brother in law syphoned it into a coke can)



When I spoke to my doctor about fire breathing and the chemicals, as well as a gastro-intestinal specialist at Strong, they both recommended charcoal tablets which are sold over the counter. The reasoning is that charcoal does actually help to neutralize the chemicals to keep from causing further damage and to help them to pass through the system, since you don't want to throw them up.

There were less kero burps after, less burning sensation and less stomach irritability. That is not saying it was gone, just less.

I can tell you there was a marked difference in how I felt before I started using them and after.

They helped.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Then I suppose he'd know better than I.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:It seems as if we're back in a topic that aims to make firebreathing *safe*. umm

My advice: don't put fuel in your mouth, whatever kind and for whatever purpose. Firebreathing is NOT safe. It is harmful to your health. Like with smoking (tobacco) - there is no *safe* way to smoke it and there will never be.

The benefits of firebreathing are greatly outnumbered by its dangers and the only reason I personally advise ppl to drink milk or edible oil before attempting to breathe fire is my irredeemable attempt to help these people to stay alive or to do as much as I can to contribute to it or to at least not see them dropping dead right in front of me.

I changed my approach: I either stop them from doing so or move away.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:As thread starter I can assure you that the thread wasn't started with the intention of making fire breathing seem safe.

It's just that, in many threads/articles on fire breathing, there is advice to drink milk, on the grounds that it helps prevent absorbtion of fuel.

Which, if believed, could lead someone to believe that it cuts down one of the harmful effects of fire-breathing i.e. that based on absorbtion on toxic/carcinogenic fuel.

I have doubts about the advice, having seen no references to research, or to reasons why it would have that effect.

So, the thread was to ask if anyone had any grounds for believing that there is a protective effect and, if not,. then maybe looking into the possibility that the milk (or indeed, carbon) advice is just another myth.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :FireTom


My advice: don't put fuel in your mouth, whatever kind and for whatever purpose. Firebreathing is NOT safe. It is harmful to your health. Like with smoking (tobacco) - there is no *safe* way to smoke it and there will never be.



I disagree with this statement. There are safer and less-safe ways to firebreathe. There is no absolutely safe way.

I think the firebreathing/smoking analogy is faulty. I think firebreathing/skiing is more apt. They are both potentially hazardous recreational activities in which steps can be taken to reduce, but not eliminate, risk of injury.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Imbalance
Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC
Member Since: 9th Sep 2005
Total posts: 263
Posted:right... but what if you do some fire breathing WHILE skiing? ever think of that? no of course not, now someone is gonna go out and do it and get horribly disfigured (or deadified) and it'll all be because of you Doc... tsk tsk tsk...
lolsign


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by :Imbalance


right... but what if you do some fire breathing WHILE skiing? ever think of that? no of course not,



Of course not. Because I'm not stupid.

Only a stupid person would think of that. ubbangel wink hug


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by :Doc Lightning


I disagree with this statement. There are safer and less-safe ways to firebreathe. There is no absolutely safe way.

I think the firebreathing/smoking analogy is faulty. I think firebreathing/skiing is more apt. They are both potentially hazardous recreational activities in which steps can be taken to reduce, but not eliminate, risk of injury.



Well said.
I agree 100%

Frankly I am tired of people saying that conversation is to make fire breathing safe, when in fact, nothing of the sort has been said.

To reiterate what I said, the charcoal caps helped a bit and did not eliminate the problems which means *drum roll please* still not safe.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks For making me aware Doc - I did not read it correctly



*post deleted*

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1207457398)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I was saying that milk is not recommended for any ingestion. Pele was talking about charcoal.

Then I said that charcoal probably would not adsorb hydrocarbons well, but Pele's GI specialist, who would know better than I, apparently disagrees. So I defer to him.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Oh. And Tom?

Please stop quoting us out of context. It's really not cute.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:You're right, Doc *goes back to edit his post*

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:It should read like this:

Dave, you pick up on a common 'myth' that splashing the mouth with milk will reduce the amount of poison absorbed by the body (and therefore make the practice of Firebreathing) safer.

Doc states from his professional opinion, that

 Written by : Doc

It (milk) is not longer recommended for the treatment of any ingestion.



So we're almost done, he said it all

but

 Written by : Pele

and what most find commonly recommended is whole milk or buttermilk.
It is also theorized to coat the inside of the mouth to prevent a good deal of absorbtion.
I don't buy it and don't subscribed to it.

Charcoal caps are much better, and are medically made to help with stomach irritation.



umm now what is the conclusion of this? Splashing with milk prior to FB is not going to help you but the use of charcoal thereafter?

 Written by : Doc

Charcoal is meant to absorb ionized or ionizable chemicals. We give charcoal to patients who have swallowed drugs, for example.

Charcoal does not have any effect on hydrocarbons (like any sort of fuel), unfortunately.



 Written by : Pele

Doc, if you drink gasolene-white gas or lamp oil, then you are given charcoal in the hospital.
(...)
When I spoke to my doctor about Fire Breathing and the chemicals, as well as a gastro-intestinal specialist at Strong, they both recommended charcoal tablets which are sold over the counter. The reasoning is that charcoal does actually help to neutralize the chemicals to keep from causing further damage and to help them to pass through the system, since you don't want to throw them up.
There were less kero burps after, less burning sensation and less stomach irritability. That is not saying it was gone, just less.
I can tell you there was a marked difference in how I felt before I started using them and after.
They helped.



 Written by : Doc

Then I suppose he'd know better than I.



Not just that he'd know better than you, Doc - you're outnumbered 3:1... two professionals and a personal experience...

Now this - to me - sounds like charcoal is a good way to reduce or soothe the effect of swallowed paraffin ===> Milk is not helping, but charcoal will.

I started some threads myself and what some of these threads turned into was none of my intention, let me assure you Dave. I get your intention and really I don't think that you started this one tongue-in-cheek. I just pointed out my personal impression...

 Written by : Doc


 Written by : FireTom


My advice: don't put fuel in your mouth, whatever kind and for whatever purpose. Fire Breathing is NOT safe. It is harmful to your health. Like with smoking (tobacco) - there is no *safe* way to smoke it and there will never be.



I disagree with this statement. There are safer and less-safe ways to firebreathe. There is no absolutely safe way.



There certainly are "safer and less-safe ways", but I can't help to gain the impression that this thread (once started to eradicate a (common) myth) turns into another discussion on "how to make FB safe/r".

- Skiing bears potential for injury - meaning you can get away skiing all your life and you have a chance to never hurt yourself or negatively impact the environment - but

- Firebreathing is harmful to yourself AND the environment. As you pointed it out: "it (milk) not longer recommended for the treatment of any ingestion..." Pele added: "and what most find commonly recommended is whole milk or buttermilk. It is also theorized to coat the inside of the mouth to prevent a good deal of absorption. I don't buy it and don't subscribed to it."

So: firebreathing IS harmful, use milk, oils or charcoal, whatever - paraffin will get absorbed by the body and they won't do it much good.

Therefore I compare it with smoking... you can use charcoal filters, reduce the amount of nicotine, smoke only the first 30% of the cigarette - you will never be able to part it from the fact that 'smoking' is harmful.

shrug

However - You seem once again get the impression that I want to be a cheeky troll, all I'm trying is to point out the (potential) effect that your discussion has (on me). Not saying you should drop it or never raise an issue related to it. (Again) Just trying to raise awareness as I did before.

Please excuse if this came across the wrong end and that I (at first) did not read every post thoroughly enough.

Still - after carefully reading them again - the initial impression remained...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Again, Tom, you are advocating solely educating people not to firebreathe.

That is "abstinence-only" education. It will not work.

I am going to make this point only once. I advise you to absorb it. If you don't, that will prove to me that you are incapable of recognizing reality and thus are not worthy of engaging in discussion. Ready?

No matter how dangerous, people will continue to breathe fire.

People continue to smoke, they continue to play American football, they continue to use drugs, they continue to ski, they continue to race motorcycles, they continue to eat fast food, they continue to skydive, they continue to have unprotected sex, and they will continue to breathe fire.

Ban it, start massive campaigns against it, send all convicted of it straight to the guillotine, but people will continue to do it.

In the absence of large, randomized, placebo-controlled, prospective, peer-reviewed studies on how to best reduce morbidity and mortality from fire breathing, we have to resort to guesswork.

However, if people are going to keep doing it, then it is worth trying to minimize the morbidity and mortality while advocating for abstinence as the safest method of avoiding injury and death.

As an update, we did admit a child for observation after having swallowed about 100ml of kerosene last night. We did discuss administering charcoal, but on review of the medical literature found out that it is not recommended and that no study has shown a benefit. That trumps even Pele's doctor.

That said, if people feel that it cuts down on their GI symptoms, then they can go right ahead and take it; it certainly won't cause any harm.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:So just my personal experience last night:



We do a massive fire meet at the party in Hilltop (local outdoor club) on our 'Sunday fire meet' so to speak. A guy comes, says he forgot his equipment, would wanted to borrow mine. As the handle of my staff is coming apart I told him that he should please ask other ppl. Later he came back stating that he send his buddies over to his home to collect his stuff. Then he came back one more time and asked me about "a small container for Kerosene"... I asked him: "What for?" He said: "So I can take some in my mouth." ...

I asked him: "You smoke?" "Yes" You take drugs?" "Yes"

I asked him why he would try to put more poison into his body than he does already and told him about my friend, who was breathing fire, did everything correct, the whole thing - highly skilled and professional. But dropped out the next morning and if it wasn't for his mother who found him lying on the floor and rushed him to hospital, he would have died.



The guy smiled, thanked me and walked off.



Mike, I know that people will continue to breathe fire. I know that they will continue. That's a fact - no matter how much I oppose it. Hence



I will continue to say: Please don't do it and tell them my reasons for doing so. If they insist, I will not supply my fuel, the fuel under my supervision, my space and the space under my supervision. Period.



If they still persist I will ask them to leave and if that's not working I'll call security to have them removed. (I will not turn hostile).



Why so?



Because I don't want them to promote firebreathing (IMO a cheap and highly dangerous act).



Because the people who own the space (like Hilltop) trust me to keep it as safe as possible and the people that spin and the audience trust their safety to me.



How often do I have to hear about Firemeets getting out of control, ppl dying in nightclubs and subsequently other ppl getting a hard time with police, when spinning only because some ppl never learn?



I'm not promoting "abstinence only"... Just do what I do.



I can't keep everyone from FB, but certainly I will reach some and discourage them. shrug



You take care of the others... deal?

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1207571214)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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